[NLA] "breaking news"

Mon Jun 10 19:35:06 EDT 2002

NLA subscribers, especially Debbie Yoho:

Notice "the deafening silence" of the NLA subscribers who didn't respond today regarding Debbie's comment? (quote: "I'm not sure how many NLA subscribers are directly responsible for the actual input of NRS data as I am, but I can share that at least in SC there were many problems with the process in 2000-2001.")   I would think that *any*one who received funding (trickle-on-down as it *might* be from the feds) would have to have inputted something or other to their state AELS Director during FY2000-01.  Or they would have gotten "zero funding".  Maybe *those* are the NLA subscribers.  Which is it?

Her disbelief that the feds couldn't have gotten accurate figures from SC exist for us here, too.  Our state's records likely show that it isn't serving the low level literacy student very well at all -- maybe not *at* all!  You have heard this one from another NLA subscriber, haven't you?  Well they are perhaps saying it about my state:  "Where have all the adult learners in this state GONE anyhow??" -- Even though there are at least four fairly good-sized literacy council programs and several smaller faith-based, library and One Stop Career Center programs statewide.  Hmm-mmm.  Wonder why there are few numbers or none of the Level I literacy students?

I so agree with Debbie Yoho when she posted:
"...I hate to be a nay-sayer, but truth to tell I think that eventually the NRS will collapse of its own weight.  Given available resources, I don't think it is possible to derive a valid picture of the AELS "system" through the existing NRS process, even if we all agreed that the parameters have been set fairly. There is just too much data being crunched with too many opportunities for subjective decision-making and plain error."

I say "Aye" to that one, Debbie.  I believe that she **isn't** the only one from a state with problems reporting accurate numbers.  The NRS reporting system just cannot apply to the learner whose skills are at the Literacy Level 1 level -- nor do the ABE testing tools that I've seen have the capability to show any growth in the skill areas - reading, writing and spelling.  Start at zero and end up at zero after, say, 50 hours of toil and study.  Now doesn't *that* send up a huge Hurray for building self-esteem??

And, as a side note to Andrea Wilder's inquiry about the drop in numbers in Art LaChance's program:  
    Those drop-out numbers show yet another Slammed Door for the under-served adult non-reader who is an "at risk" citizen.  I'll bet those numbers are more than real dropout numbers.  They are likely painful reminders to the administrator of what happens when an adult learner with few good experiences with the public school, its testing environment, the feeling-of-failure experienced there that remain as residue when the registrar says, "Now.  Let's set the clock and test you.  This will take at least another hour - maybe longer - dependent on how you test-out."  
    Reaction?  "RUN, man.  RUN as fast as you can!  This program is no different than all the others!" they say as they race for the outdoors - likely never to be seen or heard from again.  The NRS requires testing.  The drop in *any* direct service numbers are the result of the entry requirements.  No pre-test - no post-test?  No federal money.  So we have to test.

I don't think there's a one of us who doesn't believe really *strongly* that establishing benchmarks and showing progress is very important to the program as well as to the learner.  However -- how deep does that documentation go to reach that Level I literacy student?  What does it document for *them*?  They *are* making progress!  It's a falacy thinking they aren't learning anything because a well-run program will provide them life skills and educational experiences that are meaningful -- even if it **is** meaningful *only* to THEM!  That's exactly what a personal goal *is* - isn't it?  Hmm-mmm ... is it measurable?

I feel "no federal money" is a better option than "no students".  I don't know about the rest of the lurkers on the listserv, but it is time for SOMEbody to stand up and be counted for the important issue -- the People Served.  We better all hope the "NRS does collapse of its own weight" as Debbie Yoho wrote. Or *I* predict the AELS will collapse instead -- at least the literacy end of the services we provide will.  Who in their right mind would stay?  (That must mean all of us who are left are of The Wrong Minds, right?)

Nancy Hansen
Sioux Falls Area Literacy Council
sfliteracy at mcleodusa.net
Sioux Falls, SD
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Ralph Yoho 
  To: NLA LIST 
  Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 9:24 AM
  Subject: [NLA] "breaking news"

  I'm not sure how many NLA subscribers are directly responsible for the actual input of NRS data as I am, but I can share that at least in SC there were many problems with the process in 2000-2001.   I am certain that whatever the state eventually turned over to the feds could not have been very accurate, although I'm sure it was the best we could do.  I also can't believe we were the only ones with a problem, as we use LitPro and so do many other states. I hate to be a nay-sayer, but truth to tell I think that eventually the NRS will collaspe of its own weight.  Given available resources, I don't think it is possible to derive a valid picture of the AELS "system" through the existing NRS process, even if we all agreed that the parameters have been set fairly. There is just too much data being crunched with too many opportunities for subjective decision-making and plain error.  I've decided to give it my very best, but I'll need a lot of convincing to trust the results, never mind the analysis of those results.    

  > Somehow, I'm still not getting it.  Is it that the seven lit.=20
  > achievement levels aren't measuring learning, that folks are actually=20
  > not learning, that the instruments that determine what learning=20
  > occurs aren't appropriate, or what?  I'm sorry for this lack of=20
  > professional analysis, but find it unsettling, at best, to think=20
  > about all the effort in all the states and wondering if it's the=20
  > indicators that are misleading us, the learning/teaching itself or=20
  > some other thing.
  > 
  > Janet Isserlis
  > 
  Deborah W. Yoho
  Co-moderator, NIFL-Health  and
  Executive Director
  Greater Columbia Literacy Council
  921 Woodrow Street, Columbia, SC  29205

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