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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>NLA subscribers, especially Debbie
Yoho:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Notice "the deafening silence" of the NLA
subscribers who didn't respond today regarding Debbie's comment? (quote:
"I'm not sure how many NLA subscribers are directly responsible for the actual
input of NRS data as I am, but I can share that at least in SC there were many
problems with the process in 2000-2001.") I would think that
*any*one who received funding (trickle-on-down as it *might* be from the feds)
would have to have inputted something or other to their state AELS Director
during FY2000-01. Or they would have gotten "zero funding". Maybe
*those* are the NLA subscribers. Which is it?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Her disbelief that the feds couldn't have
gotten accurate figures from SC exist for us here, too. Our
state's records likely show that it isn't serving the low level literacy
student very well at all -- maybe not *at* all! You have heard this
one from another NLA subscriber, haven't you? Well they are perhaps saying
it about my state: "Where have all the adult learners in this state GONE
anyhow??" -- Even though there are at least four fairly good-sized literacy
council programs and several smaller faith-based, library and One Stop
Career Center programs statewide. Hmm-mmm. Wonder why there are few
numbers or none of the Level I literacy students?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I so agree with Debbie Yoho when she
posted:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>"...I hate to be a nay-sayer, but truth to tell I
think that eventually the NRS will collapse of its own weight. Given
available resources, I don't think it is possible to derive a valid picture of
the AELS "system" through the existing NRS process, even if we all agreed that
the parameters have been set fairly. There is just too much data being crunched
with too many opportunities for subjective decision-making and plain
error."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I say "Aye" to that one, Debbie. I believe
that she **isn't** the only one from a state with problems reporting
accurate numbers. The NRS reporting system just cannot apply to the
learner whose skills are at the Literacy Level 1 level -- nor do the ABE testing
tools that I've seen have the capability to show any growth in the skill
areas - reading, writing and spelling. Start at zero and end up at zero
after, say, 50 hours of toil and study. Now doesn't *that* send up a
huge Hurray for building self-esteem??</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>And, as a side note to Andrea Wilder's inquiry
about the drop in numbers in Art LaChance's program: </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> Those drop-out numbers show yet
another Slammed Door for the under-served adult non-reader who is an "at risk"
citizen. I'll bet those numbers are more than real dropout numbers.
They are likely painful reminders to the administrator of what happens when an
adult learner with few good experiences with the public school, its testing
environment, the feeling-of-failure experienced there that remain as
residue when the registrar says, "Now. Let's set the clock and test
you. This will take at least another hour - maybe longer - dependent on
how you test-out." </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> Reaction? "RUN, man.
RUN as fast as you can! This program is no different than all the others!"
they say as they race for the outdoors - likely never to be seen or heard from
again. The NRS requires testing. The drop in *any* direct service
numbers are the result of the entry requirements. No pre-test - no
post-test? No federal money. So we have to test.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I don't think there's a one of us who doesn't
believe really *strongly* that establishing benchmarks and showing
progress is very important to the program as well as to the learner.
However -- how deep does that documentation go to reach that Level I literacy
student? What does it document for *them*? They *are* making
progress! It's a falacy thinking they aren't learning anything because a
well-run program will provide them life skills and educational experiences that
are meaningful -- even if it **is** meaningful *only* to THEM! That's
exactly what a personal goal *is* - isn't it? Hmm-mmm ... is it
measurable?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I feel "no federal money" is a better option
than "no students". I don't know about the rest of the lurkers on the
listserv, but it is time for SOMEbody to stand up and be counted for the
important issue -- the People Served. We better all hope the "NRS
does collapse of its own weight" as Debbie Yoho wrote. Or *I* predict the
AELS will collapse instead -- at least the literacy end of the services we
provide will. Who in their right mind would stay? (That must mean
all of us who are left are of The Wrong Minds, right?)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Nancy Hansen</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sioux Falls Area Literacy Council</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><A
href="mailto:sfliteracy@mcleodusa.net">sfliteracy@mcleodusa.net</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sioux Falls, SD</FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A href="mailto:dwyoho@earthlink.net" title=dwyoho@earthlink.net>Ralph
Yoho</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:nla@lists.literacytent.org" title=nla@lists.literacytent.org>NLA
LIST</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, June 10, 2002 9:24 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [NLA] "breaking news"</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>I'm not sure how many NLA subscribers are directly responsible for the
actual input of NRS data as I am, but I can share that at least in SC there
were many problems with the process in 2000-2001. I am certain
that whatever the state eventually turned over to the feds could not have been
very accurate, although I'm sure it was the best we could do. I
also can't believe we were the only ones with a problem, as we use LitPro and
so do many other states. I hate to be a nay-sayer, but truth to tell I think
that eventually the NRS will collaspe of its own weight. Given
available resources, I don't think it is possible to derive a valid picture of
the AELS "system" through the existing NRS process, even if we all agreed that
the parameters have been set fairly. There is just too much data being
crunched with too many opportunities for subjective decision-making and plain
error. I've decided to give it my very best, but I'll need a lot of
convincing to trust the results, never mind the analysis of those
results. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>> Somehow, I'm still not getting it. Is it that the seven
lit.=20</DIV>
<DIV>> achievement levels aren't measuring learning, that folks are
actually=20</DIV>
<DIV>> not learning, that the instruments that determine what
learning=20</DIV>
<DIV>> occurs aren't appropriate, or what? I'm sorry for this
lack of=20</DIV>
<DIV>> professional analysis, but find it unsettling, at best, to
think=20</DIV>
<DIV>> about all the effort in all the states and wondering if it's
the=20</DIV>
<DIV>> indicators that are misleading us, the learning/teaching itself
or=20</DIV>
<DIV>> some other thing.</DIV>
<DIV>> </DIV>
<DIV>> Janet Isserlis</DIV>
<DIV>> </DIV>
<DIV>Deborah W. Yoho</DIV>
<DIV>Co-moderator, NIFL-Health and</DIV>
<DIV>Executive Director</DIV>
<DIV>Greater Columbia Literacy Council</DIV>
<DIV>921 Woodrow Street, Columbia, SC 29205</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>_______________________________________________ NLA
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