[NLA] Re: Reading Instruction and Policy Advocacy

Thu Sep 12 08:26:46 EDT 2002

I'd like to address both this question and Debbie's question about students
knowing what they need to learn.

It is absolutely true that a teacher cannot be forced to know what they don't
know simply because one cannot know what they don't know and to "know" one must
'experience' those factors that contribute to knowing.  So to 'mandate' teaching
processes will solve little.  Agreed.  However.   I thought that was what
colleges were for ?  If the mandate to standardize what works with most exists
then it should encompass colleges and universities.  The limiting problem as I
see it is that the educational organizations directly involved in teaching
teachers how to teach cannot reach consensus amongst themselves.  How many
theories based on 'valid research' are out there, and how many of those agree
with each other.  How many of those 'research' based assumptions of adult
literacy education were actually accomplished over time in an actual adult
literacy classroom?  I have not seen a thing that is truly 'valid' in those
terms.  What I see, and what my contemporaries see, does not resemble the common
beliefs held by administration.  It's difficult to describe fully but it appears
to me that the common philosophy regarding adult literacy is grounded in K12
mandated attendance rules.

One of the arguments I've been hearing about adult literacy is to let the
student decide what they need to learn and teach them from that perspective.
Down here in reality land we see almost daily the student who is in a rush to
get a new job or to enter tech school and they need the GED today, but if
necessary they could wait a day or two.  All they "really need is some brush-up
on algebra".  We talk them into an assessment and discover they read at a 6th
grade level and cannot do long division.  So the proponents of the above
philosophy tell us that we should accomodate this student - teach them algebra -
and send them on their way ???
It appears to me that we're doing that already in K12 and this is another
example of that philosophy bleeding over into adult literacy.  I've heard so
many times that this is not a k12 list that it makes me gag now.  If it weren't
for the output of k12 we wouldn't be plagued with the iliteracy factor we have.
This IS a "national" issue.  Are you telling me we're doing this on purpose??
Clear me up here and I'll go away.

Ladies and gentlemen.  We have a serious problem right here in river city.  Our
prisons are loaded with NALS level one folks, our welfare roles are loaded up
with NALS level one folks, it's sucking the tax base dry, it's not going to go
away by allowing the processes that created it to continue, and those processes
are not going to change without serious outside influence.  We have confounding
student behavior problems in both k12 and in adult lit.  I just attended an
adult lit conference in Atlanta and had opportunity to listen to a juvenile
court judge, the session was initiated by a community adult lit organization.
The good judge, and most like him, jerk behavior plagued youngsters out of k12
and send them to adult lit class, to an undermanned underfunded small classroom
environment without providing the adult lit classroom teacher any clout in terms
of being able to bring  this child under control so the rest of the adults in
the classroom can do their function.  Probation office ignores the situation -
"not much we can do" .  Excuse me, they are unable to exercise the conditions of
"probation" because of what ???   This is not a localized problem, I'd venture
to say it's fairly widespread, and due primarily to our resistance as a society
to influence inappropriate behaviors with concrete consequences, supposedly
using "human rights values" as governing criteria.

Sorry for the long windedness.  It's ALL connected together and we need to
change 'something' for Pete's sake.  Stop the madness.

art

Eileen Eckert wrote:

> Art says, "IF the teacher "understands" the language learning process,
> then they may apply whatever is required to meet the students needs." But if
> the teacher does not understand the language learning process, s/he will not
> understand it any better for being told s/he has to teach it a certain way.
> "taamz phonetic dream" illustrated his understanding of the process of
> learning to read/write/spell. Tom, did you come to appreciate the importance
> of phonemic awareness <and> develop your expert understanding of it as a
> result of a mandate to use it as a teaching methodology? If a mandate was
> the trigger, was it all that was needed? Could you have developed your
> understanding from someone telling you what the research said, or did you
> need to read it, conduct it, and/or experience it yourself?
>
> If teachers understand how to teach reading, then they won't need a mandate
> to get them to do it. If they don't understand, a mandate will not make them
> understand (<and> understanding is sometimes a far cry from doing). Given
> the scarcity of resources, it makes sense to concentrate them closest to
> learners (e.g., use them to help teachers develop their understanding and
> skills) <rather> than to create policy and the bureacracy needed to enforce
> that policy.
>
> About the ludicrousness of expecting children or adults to know what they
> need, I think children are much more capable than you give them credit for,
> but that's a discussion to have off-list. As for adults, they have a world
> of experience and knowledge outside of the domain of reading, and if
> inability to read limits them in some ways, it by no means negates their
> ability to act as the controlling partner in a joint student-teacher venture
> into literacy. In fact, haven't you said yourself that if students aren't
> getting what they know they need, they vote with their feet?
> Eileen
>
> >From: Art LaChance <arthur at ellijay.com>
> >Reply-To: nla at lists.literacytent.org
> >To: nla at lists.literacytent.org
> >Subject: Re: [NLA] Re: Reading Instruction and Policy Advocacy
> >Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 15:42:48 -0400
> >
> >Do I hear an "Amen" ? !!
> >
> >Exactly that, Jon.  I know
> >that's not the case in public education at the present time although it
> >shows
> >some promise of approaching it.
> >
> >In response to Debbie's post, (saving paper here), I think it's just short
> >of
> >ludicrous to expect children to know what they need to learn, and if the
> >teacher is worth their salt, we in adult literacy will have no future.  And
> >I'm
> >sorry, if adult students knew what they needed to learn, therein lies the
> >foundation for the "we don't need adult literacy services so why put more
> >funds
> >into it" philosophy.  Let's make up our minds here.
> >
> >art
> >
> >
> >
> >Jon Randall wrote:
> >
> > > On 9/11/2002, In response to Eileen's post of 9/10, Art wrote: "Those of
> >us
> > > in the adult literacy classrooms see the results of both daily and
> >realize
> > > fully that both are required, not recommended ..."
> > >
> > > So would the appropriate advocacy position be to tell Congress and the
> > > Administration: "We need and appreciate information about promising
> > > practices but urge you not to dictate instructional methods. Rather,
> >hold
> > > providers accountable for results. Re: instructional methods: it's not
> > > either/or. It's knowing when it is best to use various methodologies
> >during
> > > the course of each learner's instruction."
> > >
> > > Jon Randall
> > > Public Policy Committee Chair
> > > National Coalition for Literacy
> > > www.natcoalitionliteracy.org
> > >
> > > NCL policy efforts are supported in part by funding from ProLiteracy
> > > Worldwide
> > >
> > > FedStrategics, LLC
> > > strategic advocacy & public affairs consulting
> > > to charitable organizations
> > > www.FedStrategics.com
> > >
> > > 8413 Park Crest Drive, Silver Spring, MD 20910
> > > Tel: (301) 588-5304   Fax: (301) 588-5353
> > > jrandall at FedStrategics.com
> > >
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