[NLA] Re: [NLA] In support of a separate AELS Act for the USA

[Sioux Falls Area Literacy Council]

This is in response to Tom Sticht.
Longer rather than shorter because several paragraphs in Tom's e-mail are
copied below.
Nancy Hansen

On Monday, May 20, 2002, 9:50 PM, Tom wrote and I quote:
"The AELS as I have defined it consists of all those programs being funded
in
part by the state grant program of the WIA/AEFLA."  End quote.  He went on
to
write, quote:  "I have advocated for removing the AEFLA from the WIA,
renaming it the Kennedy Adult Education and Literacy System of the United
States of America Act .. (which) . would in no way affect the formula by
means of which funds are distributed in the state grants." End quote.

Response:  I apologize to Mr. Sticht, if he felt that I'd misinterpreted how
the funds would be distributed to each state grant.  My question, then, is:
How many other round peg people in a square hole system will misinterpret
the
Act with such a political powerhouse of a family's name attached?  How many
other adult ed, lifelong learning and literacy "contemporaries" are there
who
have had a lot more to do with "historical support" than the Kennedy family
and a lot *less* political party and/or state party connotations?  (I read
one NLA subscriber even pointed out one suggestion, which received not one
e-mail response either "yay" or "nay".)

Tom Sticht cajoled with the following comment a program such as ours which
(quote) "do not receive AELS money now and . would not receive it under the
new Act unless (it) chose to work under the administrative arrangements of
the Act, including at the present time the requirement for some form of
assessment ." noting also that "most members of the AELS are using
standardized tests at the present time, but this could be changed in the
future."  End quote.

Response:  Understood - and *shame* on programs like the SF council, for
Pete's
sake.  Yet contrary to, what appears to be, the common belief that
"standardized timed testing" is the *only* acceptable way of identifying
needs and educational level of the adult learner who lacks even the basic
literacy skills, there *are* assessment tools which are effective -- Which
this
little insignificant programs and others use -- Which identify for our
volunteer tutors and this administrator the appropriate educational
materials
that will address the literacy needs of that individual.  Because I
personally choose this method of identification, it excludes the likes of
the
round peg people we serve (or the renegade program that we are!) from
receiving AELS funding to *purchase* those materials.  Yet Tom wants these
round pegs to be in his statistical *count*, if I read his reply correctly.
Guess my opinion is that "you can't have your cake and eat it too."  Goes
for
this little program receiving inadequate federal funding too, I have to
admit.

Tom writes and I paraphrase, in response to my pointing out he had later
written there are adult learners being served in prisons, in library
literacy, in Head Start and Family Literacy tie-ins (all funded, by the way,
from other sources - some federal) - a point he made later in the first NLA
e-mail:
 ".I note that some of the AELS adult students may be served in the same
venues that I mentioned .My point was that there may be many other adults
being provided literacy education in these venues for whom I had no data and
hence I am unable to estimate the total number of adults being provided with
literacy instruction in the U.S. each year." End quote.

Response:  Really.  A-ha!!  Some more "round peg literacy students" surface.
My question is:  These folks are good enough to be missed in the statistical
data-gathering that T Sticht wishes to have available, yet not good enough
to
have their programs funded appropriately as an AELS program.  Correct?

He went on to write ". AELS programs in the WIA/AEFLA serve some 2.9 million
students and hence the AELS is the primary provider of adult education and
literacy development in the U.S. today."  End quote.

Response:  How does T Sticht know that?  Can *anybody* really tally the
numbers of
the above "loose ends" being served and come up with an accurate statistical
report of how many adult learners aren't in the count (because they aren't
being put in a square hole via standardized testing and thus don't deserve
funding)?  If not, then how dare *any* of us pat the AELS system on the
proverbial back
for being "the primary provider of adult education and literacy development
in the U.S. today" - hip hip hurray.

Tom wrote, and I apologize for speaking "out of turn" on an issue about
which
I have little right nor enough knowledge, the following two paragraphs in
part:
".The web sites for either LVA or LLA do not provide any qualifying remarks
that would lead a reader to assume that the numbers they report serving
across the nation, including South Dakota, are not fairly accurate. . it
seems highly unlikely that such systematic declines would happen as
consequence of some random change in leadership in local councils for both
organizations over time."
". Nancy here makes some statements that I am quite certain are not entirely
correct.  For instance, both LVA and LLA conduct workplace literacy programs
and there are no data of which I am aware indicating that the adults in
those
programs read solely at the 0-3rd grade levels.  So while I would agree with
Nancy that it is likely that many, and perhaps most of the people served by
LVA and LLA are at the lowest levels of literacy, I doubt that they all
are."
 End quote.

I'm sorry.  I'll admit it. I don't know more than the scope of my exposure.
That scope is to programs in the LLA "umbrella" as communiqué with smaller
programs rather than larger programs.  (For example, I haven't had the honor
of meeting *anyone* from the Literacy Assistance Center of New York which
Tom
pointed out collects "thousands of pre and post test scores using the TABE
in
LVA of NYC".)  So I'm likely very wrong proclaiming "the majority" or "total
served" or anything close to that when I know so little.

I do agree that there *may* be adult learners who can handle a testing
environment - particularly if it's related to work training programs.  But,
will Tom not admit then, that these adults are *not* in that afore mentioned
0-3rd grade level - students who should have a better benchmark tool used
than a standardized test that's timed?  I've asked this before, what *is* it
we are attempting to "measure"?  Is testing somebody with a 0-3 vocabulary
level and
reading capability going to show where their much higher level
life skills fill in some of their gaps?  Not hardly with TABE at least!

Former adult student Archie Willard has written here in the past the need
for
consideration of the adult as an individual.  NLA subscribers chose to make
minimal comments to his e-mail, but his points were very well-taken and
correct for at least nine of 10 learners that I enroll here.  The
standardized testing environment is an uncomfortable place for learners and
creates barriers difficult to overcome with the population with low level
literacy skills, in my little small-peg view.

If we truly want to "unite" in our efforts to serve the majority of adult
learners with low level literacy skills, I feel very strongly that we
providers, researchers, policy-makers *must* find a better way to determine
progress than standardized timed testing.  From what I've witnessed, at
best,
the TABE tool measures only reading level.  The adult learner who starts
with
0-3 capabilities is going to take a *long time* to "climb out of their
trench" to the next level of reading knowledge.  In the meantime, we
providers make choices.  Because of the greenback, do we kick that man or
woman "while they are down", as the old expression goes?   The conversations
goes:  "Now, let's get that post-test out of the way even though it's way
too
early to determine any change because you started out with so little," is
the
message communicated either right up front or subliminally to the learner.
Again - just my little round-peg view.

So it's not only what's the best for the AELS, it's what's best for the
learner within various programs - not just those of The System, but all
adult
learners whether they are in prison or church or a parent in an Even Start
program who lack literacy skills to read basic words.

Yes, Tom, I agree with you -- it would be good to get the AELS funding out
of
the WIA.  The *real* question is:  Is the AELS truly trying to reach out to
*all* adult learners or just those who fit their square-peg world?  If those
round pegs out there had the privilege of being in programs that were
appropriately funded by federal Literacy Act, what a difference we could
make
in their world and the quality of life of their families.

Nancy Hansen
Sioux Falls Area Literacy Council
Sioux Falls, SD
sfliteracy at mcleodusa.net


----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Sticht" <tsticht at aznet.net>
To: <nla at lists.literacytent.org>
Cc: <tsticht at aznet.net>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 9:50 PM
Subject: [NLA] In support of a separate AELS Act for the USA


> This is in reponse to Nancy Hansen.
> Tom Sticht
>
>
> On  Friday, May 17, 2002 9:37 AM Nancy said: Quote" It angers me that
> there wasn't more foresight exercised into identifying what  the
> problems would be as the WIA took over the funding of adult ed - it has
> NOT been all that long ago and problems are already beginning to crop
> up.  I  never DID approve of the DoE throwing adult ed into the cold, if
> that's what  happened.  Now we are going to become a Senator's AELS.
> Will adult ed then  become a program of the NE of the US only?  I mean,
> the program, which I
> administer, isn't even *close* to Massachusetts!  Will my program
> receive the
> same attention that AELS out there does?  Part of me feels that this may
> be a
> fair resolution yet another gut-feeling is it isn't going to provide
> funding
> to *all* but only to a few larger AELS entities."
>
> Response: The AELS as I have defined it consists of all those programs
> being funded in part by the state grant program of the WIA/AEFLA. South
> Dakota gets funds at the present time [about $1 million in FY 99]
> through this grant program and therefore is [and would be] a part of the
> AELS of the USA as I am thinking about it. I have advocated for removing
> the AEFLA from the WIA, renaming it the Kennedy Adult Education and
> Literacy System of the United States of America Act to honor the Kennedy
> family for its historical and contemporary role in gaining support for
> adult education and lifelong learning. This would in no way affect the
> formula by means of which funds are distributed in the state grants. If
> your program in Sioux Falls is an LLA program, run entirely by
> volunteers, and not serving the South Dakota state AELS students, you do
> not receive AELS money now and you would not receive it under the new
> Act unless you chose to work under the administrative arrangements of
> the Act, including at the present time the requirement for some form of
> assessment - generally most members of the AELS are using standardized
> tests at the present time, but this could be changed in the future.
>
> Nancy Hansen said:  Quote:"Tom, if you had chosen to go one step further
> than "visit the national  organizations' websites" and visited with the
> people charged with the
> responsibilities of these organizations (such as Executive Director
> Peter
> Waite of LLA who has always been available to visit with lil-ole me
> about my
> concerns) you might have found out that the organizations are
> volunteer-led
> in many, many cases.  The figures are going to be only as good as those
> reporting them - and I'm NOT a good example because even MY reporting is
> sporadic!  The "drop" from one reporting period to the next could be
> impacted
> by ever changing leadership of programs. "Unquote
>
> Response: The web sites for either LVA or LLA do not provide any
> qualifying remarks that would lead a reader to assume that the numbers
> they report serving across the nation, including South Dakota, are not
> fairly accurate. If they are not fairly accurate, as Nancy indicates
> hers are not, I doubt that Peter Waite or any one else could offer
> better numbers. As to the drop across time in enrollments for both LVA
> or LLA, I did not even attempt to speculate as to why the numbers may
> have dropped. But it seems highly unlikely that such systematic declines
> would happen as a consequence of some random change in leadership in
> local councils for both organizations over time. It is also consistent
> with the large drop in enrollments for the AELS during the same time
> that I have reported on in the last few months. To date, no one has
> accounted for those drops, either.
>
> Nancy says, Quote"Alright, the next issue Tom Sticht brought up:  ".it
> is not clear how many of  the LVA/Laubach programs receive AELS funds
> and whose students are therefore  included in the AELS total."  I have
> said it before, but will repeat it one more time:  The volunteer
> programs, which teach the adult whose skills are at the 0-3 grade level
> of  reading, are going to balk, hesitate or refuse to demand their
> students at
> the enrollment date be standardized tested - if they have any blood in
> their  veins at all!  I would suggest that this might be why you don't
> see their  numbers elsewhere. Standardized Testing is the prerequisite
> for federal  funding that stops cold many literacy providers from
> accessing funding for  their learners - The consequence?  They don't
> report their numbers as well."Unquote
>
> Response: Nancy here makes some statements that I am quite certain are
> not entirely correct. For instance, both LVA and LLA conduct workplace
> literacy programs and there are no data of which I am aware indicating
> that the adults in those programs read solely at the 0-3rd grade levels.
> So while I would agree with Nancy that it is likely that many, and
> perhaps most of the people served by LVA and LLA are at the lowest
> levels of literacy, I doubt that they all are.  Also, it is very much
> the case that some LVA and LLA programs are funded through their state's
> AELS which, in turn, is funded in part by the federal state grants
> program of the WIA/AEFLA. Therefore at least some LVA and LLA affiliates
> are doing some standardized testing to meet the WIA/AEFLA accountability
> requirements. In fact, in New York City, the Literacy Assistance Center
> collects thousands of pre and post test scores using the TABE in LVA of
> NYC  programs each year. Finally, even if LVA and LLA programs did not
> do standardized testing, and were not part of the AELS, this would not
> necessarily keep them from reporting how many adults they served in a
> given year to the national headquarters of LVA or LLA. This does not
> require any standardized testing.
>
> Nancy says: Quote"The question about the remaining 2,685,000 students?
> Aren't they the people  detailed in Tom's explanation about two
> paragraphs later?  Prison, GED-prep
> students, English As a Second Language students (who aren't enrolled in
> either LLA or LVA programs), library literacy, Head Start, Family
> Literacy
> and perhaps church-led programs. "Unquote
>
> Response" No. In my comments I stated that there are many adults being
> served in venues such as the ones you mention, but I also indicated that
> I had no data for them. The 2.68 million I mentioned were the numbers of
> adults that were served by and reported to the federal government in its
> oversight of the AELS, with the LVA and LLA numbers removed, though I
> note now that some of the AELS adult students may be served in the same
> venues that I mentioned for which I had no data. But my point was that
> there may be many other adults being provided literacy education in
> these venues for whom I had no data and hence I am unable to estimate
> the total number of adults being provided with literacy instruction in
> the U.S. each year. But I do have the data to indicate that the AELS
> programs, that is, those programs funded in part through the state grant
> programs in the WIA/AEFLA, serve some 2.9 million students and hence the
> AELS is the primary provider of adult education and literacy development
> in the U.S. today.
>
> In the last decade of the 20th century the AELS/USA had close to 40
> million enrollments of adults lifting themselves up in the world through
> education.It is this state and federal partnership, this Adult Education
> and Literacy System of the United States of America, that I am
> celebrating this year for its 35 years of growth and development as the
> nation's third publicly supported education system, alongside the K-12
> and Higher Education systems.
>
> Adult Learners of the USA - Unite!
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