[NLA] David's model and teacher certification

Mon Jun 24 09:46:52 EDT 2002

David,
Thanks for pointing out that you didn't include teacher certification as a 
REQUIREMENT. I inferred it, but it wasn't in what you wrote. I'll be more 
careful about conclusions I draw from what I read!

Having said that, I still have reservations about it. How does teacher 
certification--even if it's not a requirement--help learners? What problem 
does it address or solve? Why is addressing it a priority?

Even if it's not required, a state-aproved certification process requires 
resources at the administrative level, resources that cannot then be 
allocated for teacher salaries and benefits or for rental of space, purchase 
of computers and books, subsidy of childcare, etc., for local programs and 
learners.

Also, philosphically, state-approved certification seems to say that there 
is a need to define "good" teaching at the state level. It seems to be part 
of a top-down approach. Is it, or am I intertwining my own biases with what 
you've said to distort your meaning?

>From: "David J. Rosen" <DJRosen at TheWorld.com>
>Reply-To: nla at lists.literacytent.org
>To: nla at lists.literacytent.org
>Subject: Re: [NLA] David's model and teacher certification
>Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 11:46:56 -0400
>
>Eileen and others,
>
>Eileen Eckert wrote:
>
>>David's proposal includes, "Develop or agree on a state-approved adult
>>education license or certification."
>>
>>How does requiring teacher certification or licensure affect student
>>outcomes? (How is it intended to improve them? What might be some
>>unintended outcomes?)
>
>I am not sure teacher certification should be required.  It should be an
>option for teachers to pursue, and for programs to require and/or
>reward. I would like to see a system where licensed teachers (if it is a
>substantive license, one which measures the demonstration of the
>knowledge and skills needed in our field) are rewarded with full-time
>positions at fair salaries and with benefits, a reasonable return on
>their investment of time and money.  But, if there isn't a fair return
>on the investment. I do not think a license or certificate should be
>required.
>
>>Why "state-approved"? Do states have some special expertise in
>>determining teacher quality (as opposed to an independent accrediting
>>organization or professional organization, like, for example, the
>>ad-ed equivalent of lawyers' Bar Associations)?
>
>That's an interesting possibility; but isn't education licensing usually
>(or always?) the state's prerogative? In any case, I would want to see
>an adult education license standardized across the state, and be
>consistent with national adult education teacher standards so teachers
>could easily have the license recognized in another state.  One model
>for this is the Massachusetts state adult education license.  It is not
>mandatory that all adult education teachers have this, and it is only
>one of several licenses which programs which are required to have
>certified (licensed) teachers may choose to accept.  It is new, and so
>far it isn't clear what the return will be on a teacher's investment.
>We'll know more in a couple of years I hope.
>
>David J. Rosen
><DJRosen at theworld.com>
>
>>
>>>From: "David J. Rosen" <DJRosen at theworld.com>
>>>Reply-To: nla at lists.literacytent.org
>>>To: nla at lists.literacytent.org
>>>Subject: Re: [NLA] Where should the AELS "reside"? (for some, a long
>>>message)
>>>Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 12:44:36 -0400
>>>
>>>Deborah Yoho, Kelly Bruce, Art Ellison, and other NLA colleagues,,
>>>
>>>Thanks for your contributions to this discussion thread.  The
>>>question, "Where should the AELS reside at the state level?" is alive
>>>in some states.  Over the past few years some states have moved adult
>>>education into the higher education or community college system, and
>>>at least two have moved it into the workforce development system.  I
>>>am not advocating this, but I believe it would be useful for us to
>>>think about the pros and cons of each of these options.  If you have
>>>an opinion on the pros and cons of the adult education and literacy
>>>system being sponsored by a state department of education, community
>>>college system, employment and training department -- or other state
>>>agency -- let's hear it!
>>>
>>>I want to reply to Kelly's points:
>>>
>>>Kelly Bruce wrote:
>>>
>>>>For instance, my assumption is that each major "umbrella
>>>>organization" (a Department of Ed., a workforce cabinet, or a
>>>>community college system), has a particular bureaucratic structure
>>>>and culture--how does this affect the organization of the adult
>>>>education system, down to the local level, for things like hiring
>>>>practices, facilities, and professional development? Are there
>>>>differences in the perceived "purpose" for adult education from
>>>>system to system (i.e. a state in which AE resides in the K-12
>>>>system sees AE as remediation; in a workforce cabinet as economic
>>>>development; in the community college system as creating a base of
>>>>community college students)? If there are differences, how do they
>>>>affect advocacy efforts?
>>>
>>>
>>>I would like to know if states where adult education resides in K-12,
>>>community colleges or employment and training/workforce development
>>>differ in:
>>>
>>>1) teacher salaries and benefits; and
>>>2) number of full-time teachers.
>>>
>>>Is this public information? Has someone on the NLA list looked at
>>>this? Is someone interested in looking at it?
>>>
>>>>Are states in which AE resides in K-12 or a community college system
>>>>more likely to hire certified teachers? More likely to conduct
>>>>research?  More likely to be open to practitioner research?  More
>>>>likely to provide professional development? Are states in which AE
>>>>resides in a workforce cabinet moving toward providing services
>>>>through one-stops?  Do they place a greater emphasis on data
>>>>collection and data matching (with employment figures, public
>>>>assistance figures, and the like)?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>All good questions.  Any answers?  Anyone interested in doing some
>>>research on these?
>>>
>>>
>>>Finally, I would like to suggest a state model to work toward (Or
>>>does it exist in some state?)
>>>
>>>Since in 80% of the states the AELS resides in the state department
>>>of education (according to Art Ellison's estimates) , and since a
>>>state department of education can (but not necessarily does)
>>>encompass a broad mandate of adult education purposes including:
>>>workforce, family literacy, corrections, health-related, and
>>>others,   I think the state department of education should be the
>>>lead agency. But leadership must mean working closely with other
>>>state agencies which have funds to support adult education and
>>>literacy.  Working closely would include bringing those agencies
>>>together, and meeting regularly to:
>>>
>>>1) agree on a common set of curriculum and outcome standards;
>>>regardless of funding source, the expected outcomes would be the same
>>>-- but for any funding source the expected outcomes would differ
>>>depending on the student's goals ( learn English, get a GED diploma,
>>>improve basic skills to enter a job, would all have different
>>>expected outcomes across the system, regardless of funding source;
>>>
>>>2) implement a common funding cycle, perhaps 5-years, as we have in
>>>Massachusetts. This would provide stability for all the providers in
>>>the AELS system, regardless of public funding source;
>>>
>>>3) Create a shared staff and program development system, supported
>>>with 10% of the funds from every state agency with funds for adult
>>>education and literacy;
>>>
>>>4) Develop or agree on a state-approved adult education license or
>>>certification;
>>>
>>>5) Agree on a common set of standards for teacher salaries and
>>>benefits, at least equivalent to those in K-12 for those who obtain a
>>>license or certification.
>>>
>>>6) Agree on a common rate system for services provided -- one which
>>>supports a high intensity of services (minimum of 150 hours),
>>>counseling, staff development time for teachers and other staff, MIS
>>>time, and other support services which are essential to deliver high
>>>quality services.
>>>
>>>There may be other important elements, but the key idea is that this
>>>would be a publicy-supported adult education system including all the
>>>state, federal and local funding streams -- and which had a common
>>>set of standards, measures, and other features of an adult education
>>>and literacy system.  One agency -- I think it should be the state
>>>education department -- must take the lead in bringing together all
>>>the agencies to build this system.
>>>
>>>Not an easy task, of course.  But that's the direction I think we
>>>should be headed.   I haven't dealt with the question of where
>>>private sector funding fits in, but in my view this should be
>>>supplementary. I think adult education and literacy, like K-12, and
>>>higher education, are primarily a public sector responsibility. I
>>>also think that the public sector must include a diverse range of
>>>providers, including voluntary, library-based, union-based,
>>>community-based, corrections, faith-based, and other organizations.
>>>In some states the education departments have a lot of room for
>>>growth in developing a system of diverse providers.
>>>
>>>I would be interested to hear your views on this model.
>>>
>>>David J. Rosen
>>>DJRosen at the world.com
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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