[NLA] Discussion: AELS and Higher Ed

[Nashansen@aol.com]

In a message dated 12/06/2002 3:37:41 PM Central Standard Time, 
cb.king at verizon.net writes in response to the 12/06/2002 12:18:57 PM CST post 
from Carl Guerriere:

She began with:
<< Your recent note on the NLA crystallizes everything that is wrong 
 with foundational notions that we have talked about for a long 
 time. .......>> (quoting him here and going on to say) 

<< ... Though too-quick generalization is indeed important to watch for,
so is a complete disregard for personal experience (site and 
persons) in discussions about human affairs.  This oversight is
highly common to those who want human sciences to look and
act like natural sciences.   There goes the dialogue with the
evidence and the data, which happens to be (1) conscious
and dynamic, (2) <more>, not less, important than the 
generalization, and (3) what generalizations are there to serve. >>

I agree.  I feel that some writers don't want to _hear_ other personal 
experience from individuals with differing experiences, attitudes and 
background away from direct service of the at risk population in our nation.  

<<  Also, all of our political foundations as teachers, etc., in 
 the USA, are democratic (not party, but in the larger sense
 of the word), I presume?  But when policy begins to stray 
 from those foundations, we should at least say something? 
 Isn't it the job of an educator to raise questions about 
 these issues?  
 
<< And I find it very disturbing that any educator would not 
 understand the concrete import of these deeper issues on 
 what you are rightly claiming is most important on this list: 
 Results, and "how to analyze and frame issues."  Just 
 as personal experience should not necessarily be 
 generalized, neither should philosophical naiveté be
 projected into all scientific fields and common discourse.
 
<< We are all advocating for adult education, and all of us, from
 different fields, have a place in the dialogue?   Or would you 
 not agree with that?   >>

Thank you Catherine.  I find it very disturbing that one individual person in 
the field cannot be free to express their opinions about issues without being 
put down, slapped back and/or made to feel unimportant.  This issue of "where 
does the AELS belong?" will have a direct impact on the personal place and 
people from which many NLA subscribers speak (myself included) or work 
with*out* speaking up.  An NLA writer take a chance in speaking their mind.  
And when they do?  They find their opinion being blasted and they are put 
down for having expressed it.  I believe all opinions need to be heard from 
_all_ parts of the nation -- not just one specific area where this solution 
would be the greatest of all correct answers!

I would like to reiterate the question you posted above:  "Isn't it the job 
of an educator to raise questions about these issues?"  If I may, I'd like to 
add another question:  Isn't it important that _all_ opinions be considered 
before one single person's more powerful opinion reigns over all others - 
whether it's the best decision for all or not - who is going to be hurt by 
that decision? 

A one-way discussion does NOT a dialogue create!  I'd like to know:  Is Carl 
talking about having a "dialogue" or does he see the decision being made in 
terms of "one-way or the highway" difinitive?

In another post, Catherine, you made a point about some programs being 
library-based literacy programs -- wouldn't that also be a network which 
could be tapped for funds?  Yes.  Likely there would be yet another source 
for inquiry about a funding source - a trickle-down place.  The key here is 
this:  Literacy programs are not painted the same hue with the same broad 
brush of a stroke.  Adult literacy within the adult education system can be 
defined in many different ways, offered in many different places, using many 
different techniques.  It would be interesting to know what the percentages 
are of practitioner/administrator lurkers reading these posts.  What defines 
these literacy program?  Under which of the different "umbrellas" are the NLA 
subscribers' programs hosted?  

The new crisis that David Rosen brought to the table regarding 

"... new performance measure plan 
for workforce development programs, including adult education programs 
funded under WIA Title II. If this plan were to be implemented, 
apparently education gain and other education outcomes would no longer 
count.>>

You know something?  When the whole discussion about funding being 
transitioned to the Dept of Labor from the Dept of Ed occurred, I expected 
that eventually something like this would happen.  So from the sounds of it, 
workplace development programs will be the ones that get the proverbial nod 
from the DoL in the different states.  The point David made is _exactly_ what 
I was talking about related to having effective measurement data to show 
accurate outcomes of learners who 'just' want a better quality of life and 
improved life skills rather than TABE or CASA or any of the other educational 
achievement measure scores. If that is a "just" because, in my opinion, the 
outcomes programs like mine provide are JUST as important as the "education 
gain" and outcomes that David was pointing out will be eliminated if this new 
change occurs.  Welcome to the club, folks.

N Hansen
Sioux Falls Area Literacy Council
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