NLA Discussion: Marginalization of the AELS

[Nancy Hansen]

Art,

I would like to comment about this that you wrote:

"I would think that WIA would best serve those in the NALS 1 and 2 levels due
primarily to the time element involved in growing those folks into GED  level.
Generally they don't have the option of devoting that much time and/or energy
towards GED level academics."

I feel you are correct in your thinking that "growing those folks into GED
level" would be more productive for that group of learners.  And it is true that
their time and energy to devote to academia is limited.

Then you wrote:  "Additionally, teaching them 'work related/specific' academic
skills (+) would be much quicker and may influence the self-concept more
effectively than GED prep activities could."

I would like to have you explain, Art, *how* this would "influence the
self-concept".  Are you talking of the learners themselves?  Let's ask a very
important question here:  Why DO our various students want GED's anyhow?  I
believe that some are under the false impression that this piece of paper will
*get* them their "better job" dream.  But is that false thinking?  Is this where
the "self-concept" comes in for your learners, Art?

You concluded with:  "I really want to say that WIA should serve *only* ALS
1 and 2, and push the more capable into ASE."

But, Art, do you think we really can "push" any adult learner to anyplace they
don't want to go unless it meets their personal needs?  If you think that, I
disagree.  We can only bring the horse to water, as the expression goes.  We 
can't make it drink.

In addition, within this thread John Comings wrote:
"My point is that we are serving several different populations.  Some of these
groups can be served by the kinds of programs supported by WIA, and some need
different services that will only be supported by a different vision."

I really would like to say a big Thank You to John for identifying one of the
problems of unifying a front of presentation to our legislators.  We really are
*not* "on the same page" regarding appropriate service delivery when the above
paragraph is the reality.  I agree, John.  Thank you for stating it so well.  
The adults in the program I administer are some of those who require a
different service with a different delivery system as well as a different
vision.

Nancy Hansen
Sioux Falls, SD
sfliteracy at mcleodusa.net

Art LaChance wrote:

> John,
>
> I agree in part with your comments here.  I would think that WIA would best
> serve those in the NALS 1 and 2 levels due primarily to the time element
> involved in growing those folks into GED level.  Generally they don't have the
> option of devoting that much time and/or energy towards GED level academics.
> Additionally, teaching them "work related/specific" academic skills (+) would
> be much quicker and may influence the self-concept more effectively than GED
> prep activities could.
>
> I really want to say that WIA should serve *only* NALS 1 and 2, and push the
> more capable into ASE.
>
> Also I think ESOL services should be a separate entity until they reach NALS
>
> 3.  Probably splitting hairs here. But we will also have to serve NALS 1 and 2
> in adult literacy, and it's difficult to blend the two together, especially
> with limited staff availability.
>
> Art
>
> Art LaChance
> Gilmer Learning Center
> Ellijay, Ga
>
> John Comings wrote:
>
> > I would like to make a few comments after reading Sally Gabb's and
> > George Demetrion's postings.  Working on the "New Skills for a New
> > Economy" (www.massinc.org) study made me optimistic that our field
> > might be able to bring together the two opposing views of how the
> > system should operate -- as a social service or as a workforce
> > development program.  One way to bring these two viewpoints together
> > is to think of our students as falling into two groups.
> >
> > Most of the students in the present system are adults who want ESOL
> > and GED/ASE services. These students are motivated to learn, we know
> > how to serve them, and we can show achievement and impact in ways
> > that policy makers value.  Most of these students are looking to our
> > services as a way to improve their income. We need to expand and
> > improve these services, and we should put a special emphasis on making
> > services more convenient.  I see this as an easy sell to policy
> > makers, and I see no reason why instruction needs to focus on
> > employment. In fact, instruction should focus on content that is of
> > strong and immediate interest to the students.  If it does, students
> > will be more likely to improve their English skills or improve their
> > literacy and math skills sufficiently to pass the GED or complete
> > another ASE program.
> >
> > We have another group of students who speak English but have literacy
> > skills too low to pass the GED or who already have a high school
> > diploma.  We are not attracting a lot of these students to our
> > programs, and our programs find it difficult to serve them well.  We
> > don't have good tools for measuring their progress or for relating
> > that progress to impact on their lives. The majority of the people in
> > this group are not seeking services, and I suspect that most of
> > those who are being served are in volunteer tutoring programs. For
> > this population, we need to rethink the way we provide services, the
> > way we measure impact and achievement, and the way we argue to policy
> > makers that funding services for them is worthwhile.  I have seen
> > classes and whole programs that do a good job of serving this
> > population. NCSALL, NIFL, and OVAE all have R&D efforts underway that
> > are trying to learn more about serving this population and measuring
> > their progress. We need much more R&D before we are ready to make a
> > strong argument for a dramatic expansion of services for this group.
> >
> > The system that can serve ESOL and GED/ASE students well is probably
> > not going to provide a lot of services for NALS level 1 adults or
> > NALS level 2 adults who have a high school credential.  We need a
> > different approach.  We can use the employment argument for these
> > services, but arguments that focus on family literacy, social equity
> > and justice, and support to democracy may be more legitimate.
> >
> > My point is that we are serving several different populations.  Some
> > of these groups can be served by the kinds of programs supported by
> > WIA, and some need different services that will only be supported by
> > a different vision.
> >
> > ----------------------------------------
> > John Comings                     Phone: 617.496.0516
> > NCSALL -- Nichols House          Fax:   617.495.4811
> > 7 Appian Way                     Email: John_Comings at harvard.edu
> > Graduate School of Education     Web:   http://gseweb.harvard.edu/~ncsall
> > Harvard University
> > Cambridge MA 02138
> >
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