From Janet_Isserlis at Brown.edu Mon Nov 1 14:18:26 1999 From: Janet_Isserlis at Brown.edu (Janet Isserlis) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 14:18:26 -0500 Subject: NLA Info: NRS, EFF, standards Message-ID: <199911012207.RAA15875@europe.std.com> Dear all, I'm in the process of trying to pull together and annotate on line resources addressing the multiple ways in which programs, state administrators and others are talking about outcomes, reporting, measurement and the like. The annotations at this point are pretty much copied from the sites themselves and need work. Having said that, I'm very interested in any feedback anyone might have, especially in the area of ommissions from the site, and/or in honing down better descriptions of the sites themselves. You can find the page at http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Swearer_Center/Literacy_Resources/ standards.html (with thanks to David Rosen for important suggestions after looking at a rough copy). Janet Isserlis Literacy Resources/RI From sjroyce at earthlink.net Mon Nov 1 13:28:16 1999 From: sjroyce at earthlink.net (Sherry Royce) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 13:28:16 -0500 Subject: NLA Discussion: What is the Right Program Size? Message-ID: <199911012210.RAA16475@europe.std.com> David: How rigid are we getting? I thought improvement in the quality of adult education offerings and, as a result, the quality of learner's lives as workers, parents and citizens (and incidentally lifelong learners) was what adult literacy , ESOL, and basic skills was all about. Let's get away from this industrial age mentality and into the information era where very little is limited by size except in terms of our imagination. Sherry Royce 1938 Crooked Oak Drive Lancaster, PA 17601 Voice: 717.569.1663 Fax: 717.560.9903 sjroyce at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: nla-approval at world.std.com [mailto:nla-approval at world.std.com]On Behalf Of David J Rosen Sent: Sunday, October 31, 1999 7:31 PM To: nla at world.std.com Subject: NLA Discussion: What is the Right Program Size? NLA Colleagues, What do you think is the right size for an adult literacy, basic education, secondary education or ESOL program? Can a program be too small? Can it be too big? Should public and private funders also be thinking about this, and should they only support programs of at least a certain minimum size? Should they refuse to fund a program which is too big? And as you think about this size question, do you think every program should provide a certain minimum number of levels of education, or all levels? (e.g. all six/twelve levels as defined by the NRS?) Should every program provide certain basic support services? What are they? Should every program.....what else? Should we encourage programs to develop tight collaborative agreements to provide minimum levels and kinds of services? Are collaborative arrangements as good as/better than/ not as good as/just different from having one large program provide all levels and kinds of services? Are there some good reasons why we should not set some minimum size or maximum size? Have any state, federal or private funders wrestled with these questions? If so what is their thinking about this? Let's hear everyone's perspectives -- what do *you* think? David J. Rosen NLA List Moderator From mdsiedow at so.ncccs.cc.nc.us Mon Nov 1 16:29:15 1999 From: mdsiedow at so.ncccs.cc.nc.us (Mary Siedow) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 16:29:15 -0500 Subject: NLA Discussion: CBO Action on State Plans? Message-ID: <199911012211.RAA16587@europe.std.com> Like Texas, North Carolina has invited CBO input into its state plan. In 1998-99, the state volunteer organization was invited to review the AEFLA and make suggestions for the draft transition plan. These were incorporated into the draft transition plan which was shared with CBO's in a special workshop conducted last spring to outline the new funding application process. CBO's were invited to make suggestions for the four year plan through their state organization. The state director addressed the volunteers at their annual meeting in July, sharing with them the new NRS requirements and our state's performance indicators. She invited comments and suggestions for the four year plan. The four year plan is currently being written. When a draft is ready, CBO's will be invited to respond to it once more. Mary Dunn Siedow, Ed.D. Director, NC Literacy Resource Center 5025 Mail Service Center Raleigh, NC 27699-5025 800-553-9759 (NC only) 919-733-7051, ext 502 800-553-9759 (NC only) http://www.state.nc.us/NCLRC/home >>> 10/30/99 07:13PM >>> Some state plans have been influenced by CBO input -- in Texas many CBO's were asked to serve on a committee to add ideas and suggestions as well as to review the draft plan. This is certainly a step forward. The point raised recently regarding accountability and funding is very relevant to many CBO's. If a CBO receives no adult education funding where will they access the resources to perform increased data collection and paperwork? There is a dual system at work in most states -- the funded adult education system and the unfunded system -- by adding more requirements the gap between the two systems grows and prevents the implementation of the spirit of the law for direct and equitable access to funding. Many CBO's are outstanding in achieving excellent rates of success and collect data to prove it. Some have such limited resources and struggle against such enormous odds it is not surprising that new performance requirements create additional challenges. However, some fully funded adult education programs perform well and others perform badly. It is very frustrating when groups knock the great impact of CBO's especially when they may do very much better if they, too, had access to adult education funding. In the Texas state plan CBO's requested the establishment of a statewide committee to look into these issues -- this was written into the plan. We are anxiously waiting for the first meeting to take place. I'd be interested to know which other states are tackling this serious issue. Margaret Doughty Houston READ Commission From millard at netins.net Tue Nov 2 00:46:53 1999 From: millard at netins.net (Archie Willard) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 23:46:53 -0600 Subject: NLA DIscussion:NRS, Accountability, and the Right to Learn Freely Message-ID: <199911021135.GAA25358@europe.std.com> Much of the conversation on the NLA listserv has been around the NRS and accountability and how we are going to record data and what it is going to tell us. Will there be standardized tests or will all this information be a compiling of data to measure us by? By measuring adult learners we can find out a lot. It will tell where we started and where we need to go. This information can help us as adults to make changes in our lives to become good workers and family members. Adult literacy programs have afforded people a second chance and a place to learn freely. There is no other place in education today where people can go that does not tell us what we ?have to? learn. This should be a learner driven field. Standardized testing with all its facts and figures will take away this freedom. It will not allow us to bring our personal needs for learning to the programs. It will become a barometer for the investors in this country to tell them how many people there are that can work for low wages. The NRS system will keep us at the place in life where we have always been and tell us how we have to learn. It seems we must have accountability to statistics and numbers, but who is accountable to the millions of people who are losing this freedom? The Bill of Rights provides us with many rights. Everyone in this country, as adults, should have the right to learn freely. I feel that this freedom needs to be claimed by the millions of people who are at the lower end of skills in this nation. The state of Rhode Island has a Bill of Rights for adults to be able to learn. I feel we need to go in this direction in order to help others to keep learning freely. -- Archie Willard Eagle Grove, IA 50533 (US) millard at netins.net FAX - 515-448-3480 URL - http://207.28.234.137/archiew.html From DJRosen at world.std.com Tue Nov 2 07:07:18 1999 From: DJRosen at world.std.com (David J Rosen) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 07:07:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: NLA Info: Dates Ron Pugsley will be on the NLA List Message-ID: <199911021305.IAA06243@europe.std.com> NLA Colleagues, The Director of the U.S. Department of Education's Division of Adult Education and Literacy, Ron Pugsley, will be here with us on December 6th, 7th, and 13th to answer questions and discuss the Workforce Investment Act, the Adult Education and Family Literacy Act, and the National Reporting System. I would like to suggest that you begin posing your questions around mid-November. Should you wish to do some reading on these, here are a couple of Web pages with useful links to pertinent documents. http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Swearer_Center/Literacy_Resources/ standards.html http://www2.wgbh.org/mbcweis/ltc/alri/advocacy.html (the national section) David J. Rosen NLA List Moderator From DJRosen at world.std.com Tue Nov 2 07:00:41 1999 From: DJRosen at world.std.com (David J Rosen) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 07:00:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: NLA Discussion: What is the Right Program Size? Message-ID: <199911021308.IAA06535@europe.std.com> Sherry and others, I asked this question because I believe size is on practitioners' minds and on the minds of funders. Recently, I have heard the following kinds of comments from program administrators, teachers and others: + We are a small program with very little public funding. The new reporting requirements are too great a burden for us. We are not sure we can comply. Isn't there room for small, dedicated volunteer programs any more? + We are a high quality, medium-sized community-based program. We are being told that in the future to get funding we need to become a large program or to form a large organization of small programs. We may be required to have one of the organizations be the fiscal agent for all of us. This would compromise our mission, our identity, possibly threaten our survival as an organization. We are all for collaboration, but not for something which might compromise our hard-won, genuinely community-based focus and our independence. + We provide high quality workplace English language services. Should we also be required to provide ABE services? Where would we get the space at the company to do this? We do what we do well. We don't want to try to be all things to all people --- and then fail. There should be some limit to growth. + Our program is large enough so that we have economy of scale. We can provide all levels of education services, and all kinds of counseling on-site. Because we are part of a multiservice center we also offer job readiness training, job training, job placement and follow-up, medical services, and child care for our students. We are large enough to have full-time teachers who are paid the same as public school teachers. If someone goes to a small program they may get good teaching (or not) but they won't get the other services we can provide. + We are a small organization serving a community of new immigrants. We are the only social service agency in town which has staff who are fully bilingual in their first language and English. We do not believe the large English language programs can meet their needs, and in any case our clients would not go there because no one speaks their language. They do come to us, and so we would like to offer them basic English classes. Could we get public funds to do this? NLA readers, should we let a thousand flowers bloom? (Will they bloom in any case?) Or in an era of standards for how public funds are spent, does the size of a program matter in its ability to meet standards (reporting, support services, providing all levels of education, etc.) If you do believe we should have standards for programs, in addition to program size, my next question is, what is a reasonable cost per student to meet these standards? Sherry, I think if we had good answers to these we might improve the quality of education offerings. What do others think? Let's also hear from those we might not have heard from before. David J. Rosen On Mon, 1 Nov 1999, Sherry Royce wrote: > > David: > > How rigid are we getting? I thought improvement in the quality of adult > education offerings and, as a result, the quality of learner's lives as > workers, parents and citizens (and incidentally lifelong learners) was what > adult literacy , ESOL, and basic skills was all about. > > Let's get away from this industrial age mentality and into the information > era where very little is limited by size except in terms of our imagination. > > Sherry Royce > 1938 Crooked Oak Drive > Lancaster, PA 17601 > Voice: 717.569.1663 Fax: 717.560.9903 > sjroyce at earthlink.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nla-approval at world.std.com [mailto:nla-approval at world.std.com]On > Behalf Of David J Rosen > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 1999 7:31 PM > To: nla at world.std.com > Subject: NLA Discussion: What is the Right Program Size? > > > NLA Colleagues, > > What do you think is the right size for an adult literacy, basic > education, secondary education or ESOL program? Can a program be too > small? Can it be too big? Should public and private funders also be > thinking about this, and should they only support programs of at least a > certain minimum size? Should they refuse to fund a program which is too > big? And as you think about this size question, do you think every > program should provide a certain minimum number of levels of education, or > all levels? (e.g. all six/twelve levels as defined by the NRS?) > > Should every program provide certain basic support services? What are > they? Should every program.....what else? > > Should we encourage programs to develop tight collaborative agreements to > provide minimum levels and kinds of services? Are collaborative > arrangements as good as/better than/ not as good as/just different from > having one large program provide all levels and kinds of services? > > Are there some good reasons why we should not set some minimum size or > maximum size? > > Have any state, federal or private funders wrestled with these questions? > If so what is their thinking about this? > > Let's hear everyone's perspectives -- what do *you* think? > > David J. Rosen > NLA List Moderator > > > > > From RBickerton at doe.mass.edu Tue Nov 2 09:13:13 1999 From: RBickerton at doe.mass.edu (Bickerton, Robert P) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 09:13:13 -0500 Subject: NLA Discussion: What is the Right Program Size? Message-ID: <199911021627.LAA13200@europe.std.com> Sherry, et al, I believe there's more to David's question than simply an "industrial age mentality." Over the years I worked at both small and large literacy/ABE programs. There ARE issues related to size: like whether the sponsoring agency can hire full time staff (with benefits) or can only support part time staff; like whether someone can really be dedicated to important related jobs like counseling, curriculum, etc.; like whether there's enough paid time to administer a program, including dealing with data entry, reporting and other accountability issues -- or does the coordinator/director have to spend unpaid evenings and weekends getting this work done; like whether the success of a program falls so heavily on one or two very talented and committed persons that the program and the students they serve suffer badly upon when they leave. And I know there are more issues like these that we should not accept as "intractable," but which we have an obligation to resolve in the best interests of our students and our field. This is NOT to say that we should look at the size of programs today and make assumptions about what they can and cannot do -- what they do and do not have to offer. There are countless examples of very small, very committed and very skilled programs & staff accomplishing a great deal more than some of their larger and better supported counterparts. The question for me is: when we encounter a successful and vibrant, but under-resourced program -- should our policy framework include providing the resources needed for that small program to grow to a size where the above issues can also be successfully addressed? For example, in Massachusetts I have watched some small CBOs grow quite large and evolve into comprehensive adult literacy/education programs -- without losing touch with the values that made them special in the first place. I'm not suggesting this is easy -- but I do know it is possible. I hope we can tackle the discussion David launched with some of these challenges and possibilities in mind. take care, bob bickerton, MA director of adult ed -----Original Message----- From: Sherry Royce [mailto:sjroyce at earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, November 01, 1999 1:28 PM To: nla at world.std.com Subject: NLA Discussion: What is the Right Program Size? David: How rigid are we getting? I thought improvement in the quality of adult education offerings and, as a result, the quality of learner's lives as workers, parents and citizens (and incidentally lifelong learners) was what adult literacy , ESOL, and basic skills was all about. Let's get away from this industrial age mentality and into the information era where very little is limited by size except in terms of our imagination. Sherry Royce 1938 Crooked Oak Drive Lancaster, PA 17601 Voice: 717.569.1663 Fax: 717.560.9903 sjroyce at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: nla-approval at world.std.com [mailto:nla-approval at world.std.com]On Behalf Of David J Rosen Sent: Sunday, October 31, 1999 7:31 PM To: nla at world.std.com Subject: NLA Discussion: What is the Right Program Size? NLA Colleagues, What do you think is the right size for an adult literacy, basic education, secondary education or ESOL program? Can a program be too small? Can it be too big? Should public and private funders also be thinking about this, and should they only support programs of at least a certain minimum size? Should they refuse to fund a program which is too big? And as you think about this size question, do you think every program should provide a certain minimum number of levels of education, or all levels? (e.g. all six/twelve levels as defined by the NRS?) Should every program provide certain basic support services? What are they? Should every program.....what else? Should we encourage programs to develop tight collaborative agreements to provide minimum levels and kinds of services? Are collaborative arrangements as good as/better than/ not as good as/just different from having one large program provide all levels and kinds of services? Are there some good reasons why we should not set some minimum size or maximum size? Have any state, federal or private funders wrestled with these questions? If so what is their thinking about this? Let's hear everyone's perspectives -- what do *you* think? David J. Rosen NLA List Moderator From LCondelli at air.org Tue Nov 2 10:08:36 1999 From: LCondelli at air.org (Condelli, Larry) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 10:08:36 -0500 Subject: NLA Info: NRS documents Message-ID: <199911021630.LAA13745@europe.std.com> David -- The NRS has it's own website to which you might direct listserv members. The site has a history of the project and all pertinent documents. http://www.air.org/nrs Larry Condelli From agopalak at exchange.crec.org Tue Nov 2 13:07:28 1999 From: agopalak at exchange.crec.org (Ajit Gopalakrishnan) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 13:07:28 -0500 Subject: NLA DIscussion: What is the Right Program Size? Message-ID: <199911021957.OAA23733@europe.std.com> David, thanks for raising the "size" questions. Let me focus this email on your question of "Can a program be too small." First, my context: I provide professional development to CT adult education programs. In CT, adult ed is offered mainly through public schools. There are 169 towns in CT and about 50 or so public school adult education programs (there are some regional programs). Now moving on to the question: Yes. From the perspective of "workplace education", it is possible that a program can be too small. By "workplace education" I am referring primarily to the establishment of onsite workplace classes that are customized to meet the needs of the business (employers and employees). In my experience, doing workplace education "well" requires infrastructure support and thorough knowledge in the area. This includes staff dedicated (at least part time) to workplace education, ongoing knowledge development in the areas of basic skills audits, and marketing, and ongoing skills development in the areas of project management, and negotiation. I have seen that when workplace education is "added on" to someone's plate and is not their lead responsibility, it is very hard for that person to say: - return the company's phone call within 24 hours, - have a core staff trained in workplace education knowledge and skills - attend Chamber of Commerce meetings to network with businesses, - stay abreast of the latest developments in workplace education, and so on. All the above activities in my view are important, if the program wants to do workplace education "well". In Connecticut, where adult education is delivered through the public schools, this poses a challenge because there are towns that are home to several businesses but due to town demographics, have very small adult education programs. For these programs, offering workplace education services is a near impossible task because they have a handful of staff, each with "full plates". Also they are open only from say 6-9 PM on Monday through Thursday, a time when business folks are usually not available. Let me conclude by saying that I really believe that adult educators are the best at teaching ABE/ESL/HSC students in the workplace. However, primarily because of the size issue I described above, some programs are unable to meet the needs of businesses in their area. I have seen instances where non-adult ed providers have been unsuccessful in offering workplace education services to ABE/ESL/HSC students, because of their lack of knowledge and skill in working with our students. Best, Ajit Ajit Gopalakrishnan Capitol Region Education Council (CREC) (860) 524-4036 agopalak at crec.org From Dwyoho at aol.com Tue Nov 2 14:25:46 1999 From: Dwyoho at aol.com (Dwyoho at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 14:25:46 EST Subject: NLA DIscussion:NRS, Accountability, and the Right to Learn Freely Message-ID: <199911022006.PAA26028@europe.std.com> I'd like to know more about Rhode Island's learners' Bill of Rights. I'm thinking if all states had this, learners would have recourse if the NRS does indeed infringe on the right to learn freely. What a revolution we would have if adult learners had a way to hold programs directly accountable to themselves! I think the problem will lie with the implementation of NRS at the local level, however. I think the legislation itself is inherently neither good nor bad. Comments? Debbie Yoho From hbeder at rci.rutgers.edu Tue Nov 2 18:46:02 1999 From: hbeder at rci.rutgers.edu (Hal Beder) Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 18:46:02 -0500 Subject: NLA Discussion: What is the Right Program Size? Message-ID: <199911030015.TAA14354@europe.std.com> I think it's less a question of program size and more a problem of class size and class configuration, although these may be related. Based on a classroom observation study we are conducting, mixed instructional levels, open enrollments and large class sizes are an anathema to quality instruction. Open enrollments result when programs feel the need to fill-up classes that have been reduced because of drop out. In smaller programs that don't have sufficient numbers of learners to group classes by instructional levels, replacement leads to mixed levels as well as open enrollments. With new learners enrolling every week and mixed levels that make it very difficult to gear instruction to all levels, it is difficult for a class to develop into a healthy learning community. In classes with over 10 learners, it is even more difficult. It may be that dropout breeds mixed levels and open enrollemnts, which in turn, promotes dropout... a vicious circle. Hal Beder At 09:13 AM 11/2/99 -0500, you wrote: > >Sherry, et al, > >I believe there's more to David's question than simply an "industrial age >mentality." Over the years I worked at both small and large literacy/ABE >programs. There ARE issues related to size: like whether the sponsoring >agency can hire full time staff (with benefits) or can only support part >time staff; like whether someone can really be dedicated to important >related jobs like counseling, curriculum, etc.; like whether there's enough >paid time to administer a program, including dealing with data entry, >reporting and other accountability issues -- or does the >coordinator/director have to spend unpaid evenings and weekends getting this >work done; like whether the success of a program falls so heavily on one or >two very talented and committed persons that the program and the students >they serve suffer badly upon when they leave. And I know there are more >issues like these that we should not accept as "intractable," but which we >have an obligation to resolve in the best interests of our students and our >field. > >This is NOT to say that we should look at the size of programs today and >make assumptions about what they can and cannot do -- what they do and do >not have to offer. There are countless examples of very small, very >committed and very skilled programs & staff accomplishing a great deal more >than some of their larger and better supported counterparts. The question >for me is: when we encounter a successful and vibrant, but under-resourced >program -- should our policy framework include providing the resources >needed for that small program to grow to a size where the above issues can >also be successfully addressed? For example, in Massachusetts I have >watched some small CBOs grow quite large and evolve into comprehensive adult >literacy/education programs -- without losing touch with the values that >made them special in the first place. I'm not suggesting this is easy -- >but I do know it is possible. > >I hope we can tackle the discussion David launched with some of these >challenges and possibilities in mind. > >take care, >bob bickerton, MA director of adult ed > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Sherry Royce [mailto:sjroyce at earthlink.net] >Sent: Monday, November 01, 1999 1:28 PM >To: nla at world.std.com >Subject: NLA Discussion: What is the Right Program Size? > > > >David: > >How rigid are we getting? I thought improvement in the quality of adult >education offerings and, as a result, the quality of learner's lives as >workers, parents and citizens (and incidentally lifelong learners) was what >adult literacy , ESOL, and basic skills was all about. > >Let's get away from this industrial age mentality and into the information >era where very little is limited by size except in terms of our imagination. > >Sherry Royce >1938 Crooked Oak Drive >Lancaster, PA 17601 >Voice: 717.569.1663 Fax: 717.560.9903 >sjroyce at earthlink.net > > >-----Original Message----- >From: nla-approval at world.std.com [mailto:nla-approval at world.std.com]On >Behalf Of David J Rosen >Sent: Sunday, October 31, 1999 7:31 PM >To: nla at world.std.com >Subject: NLA Discussion: What is the Right Program Size? > > >NLA Colleagues, > >What do you think is the right size for an adult literacy, basic >education, secondary education or ESOL program? Can a program be too >small? Can it be too big? Should public and private funders also be >thinking about this, and should they only support programs of at least a >certain minimum size? Should they refuse to fund a program which is too >big? And as you think about this size question, do you think every >program should provide a certain minimum number of levels of education, or >all levels? (e.g. all six/twelve levels as defined by the NRS?) > >Should every program provide certain basic support services? What are >they? Should every program.....what else? > >Should we encourage programs to develop tight collaborative agreements to >provide minimum levels and kinds of services? Are collaborative >arrangements as good as/better than/ not as good as/just different from >having one large program provide all levels and kinds of services? > >Are there some good reasons why we should not set some minimum size or >maximum size? > >Have any state, federal or private funders wrestled with these questions? >If so what is their thinking about this? > >Let's hear everyone's perspectives -- what do *you* think? > >David J. Rosen >NLA List Moderator > > > > > Rutgers University Graduate School of Education 10 seminary Pl. New Brunswick, NJ 08901 732-932-7496 ext. 213 From gdemetrion at juno.com Wed Nov 3 00:07:37 1999 From: gdemetrion at juno.com (GEORGE E. DEMETRION) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 21:07:37 -0800 Subject: NLA DIscussion: What is the Right Program Size? Message-ID: <199911031105.GAA03068@europe.std.com> On Tue, 2 Nov 1999 13:07:28 -0500 Ajit Gopalakrishnan writes: >In CT, adult ed is offered mainly through public schools. >There are 169 towns in CT and about 50 or so public school adult >education programs (there are some regional programs). Woa, bro, What about us LVAers. 15 affiliates in the Nutmeg State. Advantages: * flexibility * individualized instruction * open all year round * entrepreneurship and innovation The struggle for agencies like ours is whether we base programming on our own unique strengths or whether we become, as I sometimes put it, ABE light. I dedicate this message to Chloe Mizoo George Demetrion LVA-CT River East ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. From DJRosen at world.std.com Wed Nov 3 06:11:16 1999 From: DJRosen at world.std.com (David J Rosen) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 06:11:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: NLA Info: Subscribing and Unsubscribing Message-ID: <199911031205.HAA08596@europe.std.com> NLA Colleagues, Please pass on to colleagues and also keep this information on subscribing and UNsubscribing: To subscribe, send an email message to: majordomo at world.std.com Skip the emssage header. In the body, type (only): subscribe nla To UNsubscribe, send an email message to: majordomo at world.std.com Skip the message header. In the body, type (only): unsubscribe nla Thanks. David J. Rosen NLA List Moderator From Janet_Isserlis at Brown.edu Wed Nov 3 08:33:48 1999 From: Janet_Isserlis at Brown.edu (Janet Isserlis) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 08:33:48 -0500 Subject: NLA Discussion: What is the Right Program Size? Message-ID: <199911040025.TAA22236@europe.std.com> I am very glad to see that Hal raises this question. I'd been thinking yesterday that class size seemed to be more an issue than not, but was wondering if I was missing the point. I've also seen programs fill classes to keep administrators/funders happy . The result often seems to be [an almost self-fulfilling prophesy] - some students get fed up and leave because the classes are too big, and others get shuffled in from waiting lists. I seem to recall some research indicating, at least in ESOL (and other?) adult classes, that 12 - 15 is an ideal number. I'd very much like to see us take up Hal's information and pool other resources to substantiate my strong hunch and my learned experience that small classes -- within large or small programs -- are part of what we're aiming for. Retention and learning have to be connected to learners feeling a sense of community, and/or being able to find the assistance they need in learning settings. Janet Isserlis >I think it's less a question of program size and more a problem of class >size and class configuration, although these may be related. Based on a >classroom observation study we are conducting, mixed instructional levels, >open enrollments and large class sizes are an anathema to quality >instruction. Open enrollments result when programs feel the need to >fill-up classes that have been reduced because of drop out. In smaller >programs that don't have sufficient numbers of learners to group classes by >instructional levels, replacement leads to mixed levels as well as open >enrollments. With new learners enrolling every week and mixed levels that >make it very difficult to gear instruction to all levels, it is difficult >for a class to develop into a healthy learning community. In classes with >over 10 learners, it is even more difficult. It may be that dropout breeds >mixed levels and open enrollemnts, which in turn, promotes dropout... a >vicious circle. > >Hal Beder > > From kjackson at sinclair.edu Wed Nov 3 09:33:18 1999 From: kjackson at sinclair.edu (Kathryn Jackson) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 09:33:18 -0500 Subject: NLA Discussion: What is the Right Program Size? Message-ID: <199911040031.TAA23035@europe.std.com> My thoughts: "Mixed instructional levels are an anethema to quality instruction" -- this may be true, but every classroom is comprised of mixed instructional levels. This is one of the greatest difficulties in the public school system today. Class sizes of 10 would be a dream come true for any teacher. Too bad this is not an ideal world, huh? Kathryn Jackson Hal Beder wrote: > I think it's less a question of program size and more a problem of class > size and class configuration, although these may be related. Based on a > classroom observation study we are conducting, mixed instructional levels, > open enrollments and large class sizes are an anathema to quality > instruction. Open enrollments result when programs feel the need to > fill-up classes that have been reduced because of drop out. In smaller > programs that don't have sufficient numbers of learners to group classes by > instructional levels, replacement leads to mixed levels as well as open > enrollments. With new learners enrolling every week and mixed levels that > make it very difficult to gear instruction to all levels, it is difficult > for a class to develop into a healthy learning community. In classes with > over 10 learners, it is even more difficult. It may be that dropout breeds > mixed levels and open enrollemnts, which in turn, promotes dropout... a > vicious circle. > > Hal Beder > > At 09:13 AM 11/2/99 -0500, you wrote: > > > >Sherry, et al, > > > >I believe there's more to David's question than simply an "industrial age > >mentality." Over the years I worked at both small and large literacy/ABE > >programs. There ARE issues related to size: like whether the sponsoring > >agency can hire full time staff (with benefits) or can only support part > >time staff; like whether someone can really be dedicated to important > >related jobs like counseling, curriculum, etc.; like whether there's enough > >paid time to administer a program, including dealing with data entry, > >reporting and other accountability issues -- or does the > >coordinator/director have to spend unpaid evenings and weekends getting this > >work done; like whether the success of a program falls so heavily on one or > >two very talented and committed persons that the program and the students > >they serve suffer badly upon when they leave. And I know there are more > >issues like these that we should not accept as "intractable," but which we > >have an obligation to resolve in the best interests of our students and our > >field. > > > >This is NOT to say that we should look at the size of programs today and > >make assumptions about what they can and cannot do -- what they do and do > >not have to offer. There are countless examples of very small, very > >committed and very skilled programs & staff accomplishing a great deal more > >than some of their larger and better supported counterparts. The question > >for me is: when we encounter a successful and vibrant, but under-resourced > >program -- should our policy framework include providing the resources > >needed for that small program to grow to a size where the above issues can > >also be successfully addressed? For example, in Massachusetts I have > >watched some small CBOs grow quite large and evolve into comprehensive adult > >literacy/education programs -- without losing touch with the values that > >made them special in the first place. I'm not suggesting this is easy -- > >but I do know it is possible. > > > >I hope we can tackle the discussion David launched with some of these > >challenges and possibilities in mind. > > > >take care, > >bob bickerton, MA director of adult ed > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Sherry Royce [mailto:sjroyce at earthlink.net] > >Sent: Monday, November 01, 1999 1:28 PM > >To: nla at world.std.com > >Subject: NLA Discussion: What is the Right Program Size? > > > > > > > >David: > > > >How rigid are we getting? I thought improvement in the quality of adult > >education offerings and, as a result, the quality of learner's lives as > >workers, parents and citizens (and incidentally lifelong learners) was what > >adult literacy , ESOL, and basic skills was all about. > > > >Let's get away from this industrial age mentality and into the information > >era where very little is limited by size except in terms of our imagination. > > > >Sherry Royce > >1938 Crooked Oak Drive > >Lancaster, PA 17601 > >Voice: 717.569.1663 Fax: 717.560.9903 > >sjroyce at earthlink.net > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: nla-approval at world.std.com [mailto:nla-approval at world.std.com]On > >Behalf Of David J Rosen > >Sent: Sunday, October 31, 1999 7:31 PM > >To: nla at world.std.com > >Subject: NLA Discussion: What is the Right Program Size? > > > > > >NLA Colleagues, > > > >What do you think is the right size for an adult literacy, basic > >education, secondary education or ESOL program? Can a program be too > >small? Can it be too big? Should public and private funders also be > >thinking about this, and should they only support programs of at least a > >certain minimum size? Should they refuse to fund a program which is too > >big? And as you think about this size question, do you think every > >program should provide a certain minimum number of levels of education, or > >all levels? (e.g. all six/twelve levels as defined by the NRS?) > > > >Should every program provide certain basic support services? What are > >they? Should every program.....what else? > > > >Should we encourage programs to develop tight collaborative agreements to > >provide minimum levels and kinds of services? Are collaborative > >arrangements as good as/better than/ not as good as/just different from > >having one large program provide all levels and kinds of services? > > > >Are there some good reasons why we should not set some minimum size or > >maximum size? > > > >Have any state, federal or private funders wrestled with these questions? > >If so what is their thinking about this? > > > >Let's hear everyone's perspectives -- what do *you* think? > > > >David J. Rosen > >NLA List Moderator > > > > > > > > > > > Rutgers University > Graduate School of Education > 10 seminary Pl. > New Brunswick, NJ 08901 > 732-932-7496 ext. 213 -- Kathryn Jackson Researcher/Trainer Southwest ABLE Resource Center 444 West Third Street, Room 12201 Dayton, Ohio 45402-1460 Phone 937 512-2326 Toll free 800 512-558-5374 Fax 937 512-3434 E-mail kjackson at sinclair.edu From agopalak at exchange.crec.org Wed Nov 3 11:52:06 1999 From: agopalak at exchange.crec.org (Ajit Gopalakrishnan) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 11:52:06 -0500 Subject: NLA DIscussion: What is the Right Program Size? Message-ID: <199911040036.TAA23781@europe.std.com> Hi George, With respect to your comments about my not expressly mentioning LVA (or other CBOs for that matter): it is my impression that CT public school adult ed programs serve a high % (about 75% or perhaps even a little higher) of all the students served in the state, when compared to all CBOs (including LVA). Hence I said, in CT, adult ed is offered "mainly" through public adult ed programs. The reason why I even shared my context in the first place was because I know that in some states adult education is offered "mainly" through community colleges, or others systems, as opposed to public schools (as in CT), and that delivery system seems to impact how workplace education services are delivered statewide. Hence, I felt that sharing my context was important to understanding my views around the impact of "size" on the delivery of "workplace education" services. My intent definitely was not to slight any provider group, such as LVA or any one else. I enjoy the diversity and believe that each organization serves a need. My views are with respect to size, immaterial of who the provider is, and more specifically on how size impacts workplace education offering. OK. Moving back to the question of program size: George, you mention of your program strengths such as flexibility, individualized instruction, etc. I wholly agree with you and have seen those strengths in action in LVA programs. Focusing on workplace education which is really the context that I am talking about, does your LVA site offer workplace education services to companies in your region? If you do, how have your accomplished that? If not, what are some of your challenges? Best, Ajit Ajit Gopalakrishnan Capitol Region Education Council (CREC) (860) 524-4036 agopalak at crec.org > -----Original Message----- > From: GEORGE E. DEMETRION [SMTP:gdemetrion at juno.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 1999 12:08 AM > To: nla at world.std.com > Subject: NLA DIscussion: What is the Right Program Size? > > > On Tue, 2 Nov 1999 13:07:28 -0500 Ajit Gopalakrishnan > writes: > > >In CT, adult ed is offered mainly through public schools. > >There are 169 towns in CT and about 50 or so public school adult > >education programs (there are some regional programs). > > Woa, bro, > > What about us LVAers. 15 affiliates in the Nutmeg State. Advantages: > > * flexibility > * individualized instruction > * open all year round > * entrepreneurship and innovation > > The struggle for agencies like ours is whether we base programming on our > own unique strengths or whether we become, as I sometimes put it, ABE > light. > > I dedicate this message to Chloe Mizoo > > George Demetrion > LVA-CT River East > > ___________________________________________________________________ > Get the Internet just the way you want it. > Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! > Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. From john at tesol.edu Wed Nov 3 11:49:05 1999 From: john at tesol.edu (John Segota) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 11:49:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: NLA Info: New grants from ED Message-ID: <199911040036.TAA23797@europe.std.com> Cross-posted from NIFL-ESL _____________________________________________ John Segota Advocacy and Government Relations Coordinator TESOL Central Office 700 S. Washington St., Suite 200 Alexandria, VA 22314-4287 USA Tel. 703-518-2513 * Fax 703-836-7864 E-mail john at tesol.edu * http://www.tesol.edu _____________________________________________ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 16:41:57 -0500 (EST) From: Fran Keenan To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [NIFL-ESL:3647] New grants from ED A request for proposal has not yet been published but here is a "heads up" from the Department of Education on some new grants........[This is not the same thing as the ESL Civics "Common Ground" initiative that the Administration is supporting for FY 2000. FK] English Literacy and Civics Education Demonstration Grants Program The U. S. Department of Education, Office of Vocational and Adult Education, Division of Adult Education and Literacy announces a discretionary grants program to support research and demonstration projects in English literacy (EL) and civics education. This initiative will help states and communities provide limited English proficient (LEP) adults with expanded access to high quality English literacy (EL) programs linked to civics and life skills instruction, including understanding and navigating the U.S. government system, the public education system, the workplace, and other key institutions in American life. Importance of Civics Education and Life Skills Instruction Civics education and life skills instruction are important in assisting immigrants and others to become full participants in American life. In 1997, the United States Commission on Immigration Reform found that understanding the basic principles and values of American society provides immigrants, particularly new United States citizens, a shared commitment to the American values of liberty, democracy and equal opportunity. Last year, the Advisory Board for One America, the President's Initiative on Race, recommended strategies to include immigrants in the American community and foster a greater degree of community cohesion by promoting programs that provide instruction on the rights and duties of citizenship. Existing civics programs focus specifically on helping immigrants pass the naturalization test, but do not typically address broader issues of helping immigrants learn about life in America. Demand for English Literacy Services For LEP students and immigrants to succeed and become full participants in American life, they must be able to read and communicate in English. Evidence from immigrant communities demonstrates high levels of enthusiasm for learning English and participating in civic life; however, the demand for English literacy ( also know as English as a Second language [ESL]) instruction outweighs the current supply. EL instruction is the fastest growing component of adult education; enrollment in EL has increased 105 percent over the past ten years (in 1998, the EL enrollment was 1.93 million or 48% of total adult education enrollment). Adult education programs currently provide funding for EL, but more targeted services are needed to meet the overwhelming demand for both ESL and civics instruction.1 Eligible Grantees Grants will be awarded to postsecondary educational institutions, public and private organizations, agencies and groups of eligible entities. Approximately $7 million in discretionary grants will be awarded to support EL/civics programs to increase access and improve adult education EL services. Eligible applicants may include community-based organizations, local educational agencies, colleges (including community and tribal colleges and universities), libraries, unions and other organizations. Preference will be given to eligible applicants prepared to provide a 25 percent cash or in-kind match to the grant and projects which serve areas with a significant unmet demand for EL/civics education programs. How Does It Work? . Grants may be used for varied purposes related to English language/civics education instruction, including staff, materials, personnel training and support services such as child care and transportation costs for program participants. Grant recipients would report annually to the Secretary of Education on the progress of participants toward achieving English and civic proficiency, and on the achievement of program objectives. A portion of funds will be set aside for purposes of evaluation, technical assistance and the dissemination of best practices. Program Components Offer English language education that incorporate instruction on the rights and responsibilities of citizenship, naturalization procedures, civic participation, U.S. history and government, and other political systems, to help students acquire the skills and knowledge to become active and informed parents, workers, and community members. Assess program effectiveness using performance measures required under the Adult Education and Family Literacy Act (Title II of Workforce Investment Act). For more information, please call the U.S. Department of Education, Office of Vocational and Adult Education 202-260-9279 Or 1-800-USA-LEARN From Dwyoho at aol.com Wed Nov 3 13:07:50 1999 From: Dwyoho at aol.com (Dwyoho at aol.com) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 13:07:50 EST Subject: NLA Discussion: What is the Right Program Size? Message-ID: <199911040040.TAA24290@europe.std.com> It seems to me a program is "right" if it gets results. From the educator's point of view, who cares if it's large or small in terms of the overall program, so long as the necessary resources are available to do the job? In the case of the funders, I think different funders will have different ideas about what constitutes a viable investment in terms of cost per learner in comparison to outcomes. To attempt to standardized this opens a Pandora's box. Debbie Yoho, Greater Columbia Literacy, Columbia SC From sfliteracy at mcleodusa.net Wed Nov 3 13:24:28 1999 From: sfliteracy at mcleodusa.net (Sioux Falls Literacy Council) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 12:24:28 -0600 Subject: NLA DIscussion: What is the Right Program Size? Message-ID: <199911040041.TAA24468@europe.std.com> GEORGE E. DEMETRION wrote: > > On Tue, 2 Nov 1999 13:07:28 -0500 Ajit Gopalakrishnan > writes: > > >In CT, adult ed is offered mainly through public schools. > >There are 169 towns in CT and about 50 or so public school adult > >education programs (there are some regional programs). > > Woa, bro, > > What about us LVAers. 15 affiliates in the Nutmeg State. Advantages: > > * flexibility > * individualized instruction > * open all year round > * entrepreneurship and innovation > > The struggle for agencies like ours is whether we base programming on our > own unique strengths or whether we become, as I sometimes put it, ABE > light. > > I dedicate this message to Chloe Mizoo > > George Demetrion > LVA-CT River East > > ___________________________________________________________________ > Get the Internet just the way you want it. > Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! > Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. To George and all, I've been lurking, but just HAD to speak out about this "program size" topic. It isn't the size that matters in my view. It's the learner goals met, the individual language and communications growth, the feelings of the learners enrolled in the program to name a few. There are 20 or so LLA affilitates in S.D. so I can reeeeally relate to your CT 15. I also feel as though (compared to all the rest of you out there in NLA-land) our tiny program is all of what you described of yours. Ours also has the needed flexibility and offers individualized instruction to our new reader and adult learner populations. The ABE programs here also are open all year round so we don't hold that "plus" on our own. However, because we are innovative, we are able to focus on that ONE learner who has established what s/he wants to accomplish and direct the volunteer instruction accordingly. We may not be able to say that when the marks are made on the paper accountability-wise for that FY99, there will be XX number receive a GED as in the 2 GED-prep programs here in Sioux Falls, but we can applaud our individuals for the personal growth goals they HAVE accomplished and changed their quality of life. We may not have 150-175 enter and exit the door in one year. But we have a very high retention per centage of which I'm proud. And *I* believe that is because we exude "caring." Our program feels the same struggle that you do. All providers must be cautious about basing programming and being "ABE light." Is the literacy programs' purpose to lift the learners' skill level up to be GED-ready and that's all there is? I don't THINK so. Our "unique strengths" and being able to teach a learner critical thinking will impact the learners' quality of life in other ways -- whatEVER thelearners' long-range goals might be. It *is* worth the effort. I *love* the expression coined by Dr. Frank C. Laubach. He said "Each One Teach One" and in our program we LIVE that motto for Each One of our learners. Sorry. I rose up and mounted my Soap Box again! Nancy Hansen Sioux Falls Area Literacy Council sfliteracy at mcleodusa.net From nboraks at atlas.vcu.edu Wed Nov 3 16:38:39 1999 From: nboraks at atlas.vcu.edu (Nancy Boraks) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 15:38:39 -0600 Subject: NLA Discussion: What is the Right Program Size? Message-ID: <199911040046.TAA25114@europe.std.com> It may well be that class size influence learning as it does in elementary schools- but it may also be a function of the interaction pattern the teacher uses- ie use of small group, peer share, cooperative learning that the goals and openness of group and teacher allow. I have seen dynamic adult classes with all students enageged by using peer share ( person shares ideas,answers,reading etc. with a peer )then responses are shared with the teacher and suspect much learning occurs here. I know of no adult literacy related empirical or anecdotal evidence. Let me know if such exists. Nancy Boraks Hal Beder wrote: > I think it's less a question of program size and more a problem of class > size and class configuration, although these may be related. Based on a > classroom observation study we are conducting, mixed instructional levels, > open enrollments and large class sizes are an anathema to quality > instruction. Open enrollments result when programs feel the need to > fill-up classes that have been reduced because of drop out. In smaller > programs that don't have sufficient numbers of learners to group classes by > instructional levels, replacement leads to mixed levels as well as open > enrollments. With new learners enrolling every week and mixed levels that > make it very difficult to gear instruction to all levels, it is difficult > for a class to develop into a healthy learning community. In classes with > over 10 learners, it is even more difficult. It may be that dropout breeds > mixed levels and open enrollemnts, which in turn, promotes dropout... a > vicious circle. > > Hal Beder > > At 09:13 AM 11/2/99 -0500, you wrote: > > > >Sherry, et al, > > > >I believe there's more to David's question than simply an "industrial age > >mentality." Over the years I worked at both small and large literacy/ABE > >programs. There ARE issues related to size: like whether the sponsoring > >agency can hire full time staff (with benefits) or can only support part > >time staff; like whether someone can really be dedicated to important > >related jobs like counseling, curriculum, etc.; like whether there's enough > >paid time to administer a program, including dealing with data entry, > >reporting and other accountability issues -- or does the > >coordinator/director have to spend unpaid evenings and weekends getting this > >work done; like whether the success of a program falls so heavily on one or > >two very talented and committed persons that the program and the students > >they serve suffer badly upon when they leave. And I know there are more > >issues like these that we should not accept as "intractable," but which we > >have an obligation to resolve in the best interests of our students and our > >field. > > > >This is NOT to say that we should look at the size of programs today and > >make assumptions about what they can and cannot do -- what they do and do > >not have to offer. There are countless examples of very small, very > >committed and very skilled programs & staff accomplishing a great deal more > >than some of their larger and better supported counterparts. The question > >for me is: when we encounter a successful and vibrant, but under-resourced > >program -- should our policy framework include providing the resources > >needed for that small program to grow to a size where the above issues can > >also be successfully addressed? For example, in Massachusetts I have > >watched some small CBOs grow quite large and evolve into comprehensive adult > >literacy/education programs -- without losing touch with the values that > >made them special in the first place. I'm not suggesting this is easy -- > >but I do know it is possible. > > > >I hope we can tackle the discussion David launched with some of these > >challenges and possibilities in mind. > > > >take care, > >bob bickerton, MA director of adult ed > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Sherry Royce [mailto:sjroyce at earthlink.net] > >Sent: Monday, November 01, 1999 1:28 PM > >To: nla at world.std.com > >Subject: NLA Discussion: What is the Right Program Size? > > > > > > > >David: > > > >How rigid are we getting? I thought improvement in the quality of adult > >education offerings and, as a result, the quality of learner's lives as > >workers, parents and citizens (and incidentally lifelong learners) was what > >adult literacy , ESOL, and basic skills was all about. > > > >Let's get away from this industrial age mentality and into the information > >era where very little is limited by size except in terms of our imagination. > > > >Sherry Royce > >1938 Crooked Oak Drive > >Lancaster, PA 17601 > >Voice: 717.569.1663 Fax: 717.560.9903 > >sjroyce at earthlink.net > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: nla-approval at world.std.com [mailto:nla-approval at world.std.com]On > >Behalf Of David J Rosen > >Sent: Sunday, October 31, 1999 7:31 PM > >To: nla at world.std.com > >Subject: NLA Discussion: What is the Right Program Size? > > > > > >NLA Colleagues, > > > >What do you think is the right size for an adult literacy, basic > >education, secondary education or ESOL program? Can a program be too > >small? Can it be too big? Should public and private funders also be > >thinking about this, and should they only support programs of at least a > >certain minimum size? Should they refuse to fund a program which is too > >big? And as you think about this size question, do you think every > >program should provide a certain minimum number of levels of education, or > >all levels? (e.g. all six/twelve levels as defined by the NRS?) > > > >Should every program provide certain basic support services? What are > >they? Should every program.....what else? > > > >Should we encourage programs to develop tight collaborative agreements to > >provide minimum levels and kinds of services? Are collaborative > >arrangements as good as/better than/ not as good as/just different from > >having one large program provide all levels and kinds of services? > > > >Are there some good reasons why we should not set some minimum size or > >maximum size? > > > >Have any state, federal or private funders wrestled with these questions? > >If so what is their thinking about this? > > > >Let's hear everyone's perspectives -- what do *you* think? > > > >David J. Rosen > >NLA List Moderator > > > > > > > > > > > Rutgers University > Graduate School of Education > 10 seminary Pl. > New Brunswick, NJ 08901 > 732-932-7496 ext. 213 From tsticht at aznet.net Wed Nov 3 16:25:53 1999 From: tsticht at aznet.net (Thomas Sticht) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 13:25:53 -0800 Subject: NLA Discussion: Efficiency Message-ID: <199911040051.TAA25937@europe.std.com> David: The following may be of interest to NLA list members regarding accountability. Tom Sticht Research Note 11/3/99 For Accountability and Program Improvement: Can Adult Literacy Programs Be Rewarded For Providing Fewer Hours of Instruction and Increasing the Efficiency of Time Spent Learning? Thomas G. Sticht Applied Behavioral & Cognitive Sciences So far this year I have presented five one day workshops on Functional Context Education (FCE) in Canada and six one day workshops on Listening and Reading (L& R) Processes of Adults in the United States. One theme of all these workshops is that teaching and learning can be made more efficient. That is, the amount of time that it takes for adults in adult literacy programs to achieve different goals can be reduced by improving the nature of the instructional program. For instance, if adults, say some people on welfare, wish to get into a good paying occupation, they may want to enroll in a vocational training program that will prepare them for a job paying self-sufficiency level wages. But when they go to enroll in the six month voced program, they are told that their basic skills, e.g., reading and math, are too low and they are advised to go to the adult literacy (basic skills) program. Now, in the basic skills program it may take them another six months to raise their basic skills to the level needed to enroll in the desired voced program. Thus, they are kept out of the job market for a total of 12 months. But following FCE and L&R principles, the voced and basic skills program people could get together and redesign their programs so that the basic skills and voced knowledge and skills could be taught in an integrated manner. Under this scenario, the adult students may complete the integrated program in, for instance, just nine months. This may give them entry into a high wage job in just nine months instead of twelve months for a three month savings in time and costs of training, and a potential increase in wages for three months. But for the most part, in the various workshops I have presented, no one has expressed much interest in this type of time saving for adult students. Further, I am not aware that the Office of Vocational and Adult Education (OVAE), which houses both Vocational Education (with billions of dollars of funding) and the Division of Adult Education and Literacy (DAEL) (with less than a half billion of funding) or the National Institute For Literacy's Equipped For the Future project, encourage this sort of efficiency of instruction and learning. The policy question is, to what extent should adult literacy programs be rewarded for increasing their efficiency of instruction and saving both the educational funders (e.g., the taxpayers) and the adult students time and money? For additional information on FCE go to www.nald.ca and search under Full Text Documents for reports by Thomas Sticht. Or contact Tom Sticht at tsticht at aznet.net From resctr2 at mindspring.com Wed Nov 3 19:47:27 1999 From: resctr2 at mindspring.com (resctr2 at mindspring.com) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 19:47:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: NLA Discussion:NRS, Accountability, and the Right to Learn Freely Message-ID: <199911040107.UAA28089@europe.std.com> The inherent problem with holding local programs directly accountable under the NRS system is that local programs cannot set their own parameters or measures of success. What difference does a learners' Bill of Rights mean, if the only "core" measures of success are: got a job advanced a level got a GED The inherent problem with the NRS is that it doesn't include or measure the basic foundations of adult education; ie: a learner centered approach that meets the needs of the student. Gloria Gillette 11/02/99 14:25:46 you wrote:>I'd like to know more about Rhode Island's learners' Bill of Rights. I'm >thinking if all states had this, learners would have recourse if the NRS does >indeed infringe on the right to learn freely. What a revolution we would >have if adult learners had a way to hold programs directly accountable to >themselves! I think the problem will lie with the implementation of NRS at >the local level, however. I think the legislation itself is inherently >neither good nor bad. Comments? > >Debbie Yoho > > From PDRNRI at aol.com Wed Nov 3 20:35:34 1999 From: PDRNRI at aol.com (PDRNRI at aol.com) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 20:35:34 EST Subject: NLA Discussion: What is the Right Program Size? Message-ID: <199911040236.VAA11563@europe.std.com> There seem to be two discussions here - one on program size, the other on class size. It seems to me that program size might tie more closely into management issues, i.e. quality of staff, appropriate levels of funding, effective goal-setting, recruitment /retention. Class size would tie more closely into issues of instructional effectiveness. While establishing class size and composition are management issues, the effect of class size upon teaching and learning is clearly an issue in itself. Regarding Nancy Boraks comments, I might suggest that while what she says about teaching/learning methods is certainly true according to my experience, it has also been my experience that peer sharing, small groups, and other methods aimed at enabling students to educate each other are more readily facilitated and the progress made by learners more readily observed when class size is smaller. I echo Janet's and Nancy's interest in gathering more information on the subject. David Hayes From DJRosen at world.std.com Wed Nov 3 21:27:53 1999 From: DJRosen at world.std.com (David J Rosen) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 21:27:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: NLA Discussion: What is the Right Program Size? Message-ID: <199911041120.GAA08447@europe.std.com> NLA Colleagues, I would like to pursue this question of program size, and to invite you to think about this with me, if you like. I believe this is an important variable to consider in providing quality adult education services to a community. And I am not sure what the right answers are yet. If your state had significant new resources for adult education how would you like to see this money used? (I realize that this isn't true for many states, but it has been -- and I hope will continue to be -- true in my state. I think -- with organized advocacy -- this could become true for many other states.) Would you invest in large programs, and if so, do you think there is a limit to growth, one which would cause them to become less effective, less tailored to students' needs? Would you invest in small, community-based programs and help them become larger programs? Is there a limit to their growth, beyond which they cannot be responsive to their communities? Would you create new programs? If so, of what size? Would you ignore the question of size altogether? One answer given here is to invest in what works, regardless of size. Several people have said that other variables at the class level are more important to worry about. I would agree that class variables such as size are important, but don't the following factors -- which may in part depend on a program's size -- also make an important difference in quality of service to students, whether a program, for example, has sufficient resources to: + offer a range of on-site educational and personal counseling services + have teachers with specialization and training in math, science, health, learning disabilities, biliteracy, etc. + have stable, full-time staff positions which offer fair salaries and benefits + offer on-site childcare + have a facility which is clean, comfortable and completely accessible + offer all levels of education from basic literacy through preparation for post-secondary education + offer a full range of services during the day and in the evening (and maybe Saturday, too) + have sufficient clerical help to maintain an effective management information system + provide regular, daily access to computers for teachers and students + Do follow-up studies on how effective the program has been in helping students achieve their goals For those of you who work in small programs with dedicated teachers and services, but without the resources to provide one or more of the above, would you want to grow larger in order to provide many or all of these services? If so, is there some point at which you would worry that you were growing too large, that you might be losing something valuable in being small? I think one reasonable "no" to the question: "Would you like to grow larger to offer all the above?" might be "Our program wants to provide just a part of this, we want to offer just beginning literacy, or just pre-vocational ESOL services, or...." We have *partners* that provide child care, counseling, ABE services, job training and the other services. We want to remain small and do what we do well, but we are part of a larger partnership." If the small program were in fact part of a larger collaboration that could guarantee these services to students, I think this might work. Does anyone have any examples of this working in their community? I am concerned about two kinds of size problems: programs which are too small (and not part of a community service collaboration) to provide the full range of quality services which students deserve; and programs which are too large and bureaucratic to pay attention to individual learners' needs and goals. What I am asking for help with is: what are some models which are not too small or too large to provide high quality adult education services? David J. Rosen From gdemetrion at juno.com Thu Nov 4 00:54:40 1999 From: gdemetrion at juno.com (GEORGE E. DEMETRION) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 21:54:40 -0800 Subject: NLA Discussion: What is the Right Program Size? Message-ID: <199911041125.GAA08953@europe.std.com> On Wed, 3 Nov 1999 11:52:06 -0500 Ajit Gopalakrishnan writes: >Focusing on workplace education which is really the context that I am >talking about, does your LVA site offer workplace education services to >companies in your region? If you do, how have your accomplished that? If >not, what are some of your challenges? Ajit: We don't offer workplace literacy, although there have been (perhaps still are) a couple of affiliates in the southern part of the state that have been very effective in this arena and LVA has a very fine text (can't think of the name) on workplace lit. Our challenges are basic in many respects: * Recruiting, but more importantly, supporting students and tutors * Providing resources through in-services and library resources, a tutor contact system and newsletter * Board development * Building collaborations with key partners and achieving greater community awareness of our program and of the value of literacy * The ever present struggle for funding In addition we are currently involved in a strategic planning process with a consultant and are developing an EFF-like curriculum which is very time consuming. Our challenge, in short, is to do good work in all of these areas and to create an organization that is sustaining, meets the needs of students, and is recognized in a community as an agency that makes an important contribution to the public good and is worth supporting. If we are reasonably successful, I will be more than satisfied. George Demetrion LVA-CT River East GDemetrion at juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. From DEBBYDAM at aol.com Thu Nov 4 08:04:08 1999 From: DEBBYDAM at aol.com (DEBBYDAM at aol.com) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 08:04:08 EST Subject: NLA Discussion: What is the Right Program Size? Message-ID: <199911041416.JAA29971@europe.std.com> I have the good fortune to work with Marian Schwarz, who was instrumental, to say the least, in crafting the New York City adult Literacy Initiative (NYCALI), a system which has room for library literacy programs staffed primarily by volunteers, all kinds of community based organizations, programs run by the City University of NY, and those run by the Office of Adult Education of the NYC Board of Education. Because of this variety, students have a wide range of programs from which to choose. All is not perfect, and there are still waiting lists and unmet needs, but NYCALI, which is city and state funded primarily, also supports much of the work of the LAC, the program services, technical assistance and research/data collection arm of the Initiative. The more I read this discussion, the more I wonder if NY's diversity will continue to survive in the new funding environment, and the more I admire the genius of NYCALI's mother, Marian Schwarz. I believe the diverse students we serve need many program, multi-media, distance learning and other options to continue their struggle to be lifelong learners. they need programs large and small, and we need to know a lot more about what works for who and in what life circumstances. DEBBYDAM at aol.com From Janet_Isserlis at Brown.edu Thu Nov 4 12:50:09 1999 From: Janet_Isserlis at Brown.edu (Janet Isserlis) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 12:50:09 -0500 Subject: NLA Info: Learners' bill of rights Message-ID: <199911042015.PAA07427@europe.std.com> A number of people have mentioned the RI Adult Learners Bill of Rights. David has suggested that we share the history of its development with the list, and this we will do. However, in the absence of a drafted statement through which my RI colleagues can express their views on this history, let me give you the short short form, with a promise to post a clearer message soon relating the history of the development of the Bill of Rights. The short form: An advocacy committee, meeting through Dorcas Place in Providence began about a year ago to draft what has now become the bill of rights. Input was sought in numerous ways - drafts were posted on the LR/RI website, distributed in hard copy and shared at various meetings; a number of revisions were made over the course of many months. The bill's rocky road through the statehouse will be described later - but some concessions were made in terms of all the items we'd hoped to include and the realities of what lawmakers were able / willing to allow into the language of the bill. I'm hoping that what we *do* have will be useful to others trying to replicate our work -- which (not surprisingly) is far from complete. The fuller story soon. Janet Isserlis From JCretella at aol.com Thu Nov 4 15:29:13 1999 From: JCretella at aol.com (JCretella at aol.com) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 15:29:13 EST Subject: NLA Discussion: What is the Right Program Size? Message-ID: <199911042110.QAA17227@europe.std.com> David.. When you wrote "one answer given here is to invest in what works regardless of size" is probably the best overall answer to the size of a program.The first question to ask is What will your community support? That may sound strange to those of you see "need" all around. What difference should local support make if there is need? In my community and other in Ct., funding is federal, state and local...And I am not just referring to dollars....but to genuine community support...David refers to other variables which can make a difference...the scope of a program..What do you offer? The quality of a staff...teachers and support personnel...and let's not assume a part-time staff and faculty cannot be just as effective as full-time staff...80% of adult educators nationally are part-timers...It is how they are trained that is most important...Child care is a must and so is counseling...Yes, they cost money....sufficient clerical help..some are paid and some are volunteers...access to computers and other technology in some form...and of course, some kind of follow-up....it is not enough to have good intentions to help learners if you don't have the right community support...I'm sure some of you are saying to yourself..he's speaking about adult education and literacy in a state which is way ahead...Remember, we ran into the same obstacles..lack of awareness, lack of caring, lack of funds, the fear that adult program funding would mean less for K-12., administrative illiteracy, all of those obstacles and more...That's where our public advocacy came in...the more people who believed that the quality of everyone's life was dependent on everyone's level of education, the more support we received...it is not enough to just say it is somebody's right to learn...that needs to be turned into some form of action..Thanks for raising the issue of program and class size and the other variables, David....and thanks to everyone for all of the insights..a good discussion... JCretella at aol.com From DJRosen at world.std.com Thu Nov 4 11:41:43 1999 From: DJRosen at world.std.com (DJRosen at world.std.com) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 11:41:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: NLA Info: Thursday Notes Message-ID: <199911042146.QAA24270@europe.std.com> [Cross-posted from NIFL-Workplace] >From the Desk of Ronald S. Pugsley, Director, DAEL Office of Vocational and Adult Education Editor: Sarah Newcomb Production: Rose Tilghman November 4, 1999 _____________________________________ Appropriations With differences temporarily ironed out between the House and Senate versions of the Labor, Health and Human Services and Education appropriations bill, the House approved the conference agreement on October 28. The Senate approved it on November 2. Meanwhile, the President signed short-term legislation to keep programs running through November 5. He is expected to veto the conference agreement in part because of its low levels for education programs. 16 States Expect Unified Plans Latest tallies from the Department of Labor show the following States say they expect to submit unified plans that include WIA Title I and other programs: AL; AK; AR; CO; HI; IA; MD; MO; NH; ND; SC; SD; VA; WA; WV; and WY. States indicating they are undecided at press time include: GA; MA; NY; RI; and VI. The remaining States tell DOL they will submit WIA Title I plans. Help with Native Language Literacy The New York State Education Department unveiled a new Native Language Literacy Screening Device (NLLSD) this fall to help practitioners assess the native language literacy levels of learners. Information gleaned can assist with placement and instructional design to meet learners' needs. The NLLSD contains 27 language versions of the screening device. An administrative protocol that offers suggestions both for using the device and interpreting its results also is included. A limited number are available free and additional copies sell for $15.00 plus shipping. Contact 1-877-212-8024. LA's McMarr Named Teacher of the Year The National Center on Family Literacy tapped Adult Education/ESL teacher Sharon McMarr as the 2000 Toyota Family Literacy Teacher of the Year. McMarr, a teacher at the San Pedro/Narbonne Community Adult School in Los Angeles, won the title in a national competition. The award includes a $5,000 contribution by Toyota to that family literacy program and a free trip for McMarr to NCFL's Orlando conference in January. McMarr has been cited for creation of a Multimedia Network Center that provides ESL/Family Literacy learners with a world of computers, email, voicemail and problem-solving instruction through directed teaching and computerized learning. Contact pgersh at famlit.org SD's Mike Anderson Here are promised details on South Dakota's new State Director and GED Administrator, Mike Anderson, on board since September 7 (See 8/19/99 issue). Anderson joins adult education from his post as the state's Department of Veterans Affairs Education Coordinator and experience as an Air Force Guidance Counselor. He's also been a commercial radio broadcaster and holds degrees in education and counseling. Welcome him at mike.anderson at state.sd.us ____________________________________________________________ A Fact Sheet from the Division of Adult Education and Literacy Office of Vocational and Adult Education OVAE Homepage http://www.ed.gov/offices/OVAE/ From Christy_Gullion at ed.gov Thu Nov 4 15:52:00 1999 From: Christy_Gullion at ed.gov (Gullion, Christy) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 15:52:00 -0500 Subject: New Literacy Legislation Message-ID: <199911042111.QAA17362@europe.std.com> November 4, 1999 Today, Congressman Bill Goodling introduced new legislation that will improve and expand family literacy services nationwide. The bill, titled the Literacy Involves Families Together (LIFT) Act, has bipartisan support and is likely to become part of Congress' ongoing consideration of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act (ESEA). Congressman Goodling, Chairman of the House Committee on Education and the Workforce, is also the author of the Even Start Family Literacy Act and has been a champion of literacy issues in the U.S. Congress for over two decades. In 1991, he was an original sponsor of the National Literacy Act along with Congressman Tom Sawyer and former Senator Paul Simon. This new legislation will strengthen the nation's family literacy infrastructure in several ways. These include: * States will be allowed to use a portion of their Even Start allotment to assist local programs in improving the quality of their family literacy services. * States will review the progress and quality of local family literacy programs and use such information in making continuation grants. * The bill allows Even Start to serve children older than age 8 if schools use Title I funds (the federal program for educationally disadvantaged students) to pay a portion of the costs. * Title I programs with large numbers of children whose parents do not possess a high school diploma will be encouraged to provide family literacy services. * The new legislation will allow programs that have received Even Start funds for eight years - the current funding limit - to continue to receive funds at a reduced federal matching rate (35%). * Even Start programs will use instructional programs base on scientifically based reading research in designing services for children and adults. In addition, LIFT will provide funding to extend important new research on children's reading, and to look at reading development in adults within the family context. * The bill increases the Even Start authorization to $500 million. Even Start received $135 million in 1999. The Senate is currently developing its own version of the ESEA. As a result, final consideration of LIFT will likely not occur until next year as part of the overall ESEA reauthorization legislation. Full text of the bill can be viewed at http://thomas.loc.gov. Christy Gullion Senior Policy Analyst National Institute for Literacy 1775 I Street NW, Suite 730 Phone: 202/233-2033 Fax: 202/233-2050 cgullion at nifl.gov www.nifl.gov From RBickerton at doe.mass.edu Fri Nov 5 08:03:38 1999 From: RBickerton at doe.mass.edu (Bickerton, Robert P) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 08:03:38 -0500 Subject: NLA Info: Thursday Notes Correction Message-ID: <199911060013.TAA08403@europe.std.com> NLA Colleagues, A brief correction to the "Thursday Notes" cross-posting: Massachusetts is NOT "undecided" about including Title II in our State's Unified Plan -- we are working strenuously and with a great deal of optimism on our unified plan which will be submitted next April. We will be circulating drafts for review and comment by the field/public as soon as they are ready. take care, bob bickerton, MA director of adult ed -----Original Message----- From: DJRosen at world.std.com [mailto:DJRosen at world.std.com] Sent: Thursday, November 04, 1999 11:42 AM To: NLA at world.std.com Subject: NLA Info: Thursday Notes [Cross-posted from NIFL-Workplace] >From the Desk of Ronald S. Pugsley, Director, DAEL Office of Vocational and Adult Education Editor: Sarah Newcomb Production: Rose Tilghman November 4, 1999 _____________________________________ Appropriations With differences temporarily ironed out between the House and Senate versions of the Labor, Health and Human Services and Education appropriations bill, the House approved the conference agreement on October 28. The Senate approved it on November 2. Meanwhile, the President signed short-term legislation to keep programs running through November 5. He is expected to veto the conference agreement in part because of its low levels for education programs. 16 States Expect Unified Plans Latest tallies from the Department of Labor show the following States say they expect to submit unified plans that include WIA Title I and other programs: AL; AK; AR; CO; HI; IA; MD; MO; NH; ND; SC; SD; VA; WA; WV; and WY. States indicating they are undecided at press time include: GA; MA; NY; RI; and VI. The remaining States tell DOL they will submit WIA Title I plans. Help with Native Language Literacy The New York State Education Department unveiled a new Native Language Literacy Screening Device (NLLSD) this fall to help practitioners assess the native language literacy levels of learners. Information gleaned can assist with placement and instructional design to meet learners' needs. The NLLSD contains 27 language versions of the screening device. An administrative protocol that offers suggestions both for using the device and interpreting its results also is included. A limited number are available free and additional copies sell for $15.00 plus shipping. Contact 1-877-212-8024. LA's McMarr Named Teacher of the Year The National Center on Family Literacy tapped Adult Education/ESL teacher Sharon McMarr as the 2000 Toyota Family Literacy Teacher of the Year. McMarr, a teacher at the San Pedro/Narbonne Community Adult School in Los Angeles, won the title in a national competition. The award includes a $5,000 contribution by Toyota to that family literacy program and a free trip for McMarr to NCFL's Orlando conference in January. McMarr has been cited for creation of a Multimedia Network Center that provides ESL/Family Literacy learners with a world of computers, email, voicemail and problem-solving instruction through directed teaching and computerized learning. Contact pgersh at famlit.org SD's Mike Anderson Here are promised details on South Dakota's new State Director and GED Administrator, Mike Anderson, on board since September 7 (See 8/19/99 issue). Anderson joins adult education from his post as the state's Department of Veterans Affairs Education Coordinator and experience as an Air Force Guidance Counselor. He's also been a commercial radio broadcaster and holds degrees in education and counseling. Welcome him at mike.anderson at state.sd.us ____________________________________________________________ A Fact Sheet from the Division of Adult Education and Literacy Office of Vocational and Adult Education OVAE Homepage http://www.ed.gov/offices/OVAE/ From RBickerton at doe.mass.edu Fri Nov 5 08:27:28 1999 From: RBickerton at doe.mass.edu (Bickerton, Robert P) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 08:27:28 -0500 Subject: NLA DIscussion:NRS, Accountability, and the Right to Learn Freely Message-ID: <199911060011.TAA08188@europe.std.com> I agree with Debby that the key to the NRS is to make services and performance accountable first and foremost to our students. I believe this can be accomplished in states through both legislation (like the RI Bill of Rights) and policy (with the active involvement of ALL stakeholders). How determined and how confident are our colleagues that they can and will make this the case? bob bickerton, MA director of adult ed -----Original Message----- From: Dwyoho at aol.com [mailto:Dwyoho at aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 2:26 PM To: nla at world.std.com Subject: NLA DIscussion:NRS, Accountability, and the Right to Learn Freely I'd like to know more about Rhode Island's learners' Bill of Rights. I'm thinking if all states had this, learners would have recourse if the NRS does indeed infringe on the right to learn freely. What a revolution we would have if adult learners had a way to hold programs directly accountable to themselves! I think the problem will lie with the implementation of NRS at the local level, however. I think the legislation itself is inherently neither good nor bad. Comments? Debbie Yoho From Avlahakis at aol.com Fri Nov 5 15:54:24 1999 From: Avlahakis at aol.com (Avlahakis at aol.com) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 15:54:24 EST Subject: NLA DIscussion: Teenagers in ABE Message-ID: <199911060035.TAA11470@europe.std.com> Dear David and NLA list-folks, I am very interested in the issue of teens in the adult ed classrooms. In the past 18 months, I have talked to many teachers and students about this issue. I have done a fair amount of research, written an article, conducted interviews, and held a focus group with ABE teachers and administrators. Yesterday, at Network '99, the Massachusetts adult education conference, Operation Bootstrap teacher Nancy Coffey and I gave a presentation about Teens in ABE to about 50 ABE practitioners. At the close of the workshop, I received the following comments and questions on one of the evaluations: "Issues you have not addressed: 1. The amount of time and energy you spend accommodating teens in an adult program. How does that impact an adult student? 2. The amount of contact time an adult program can offer to teens. Teens need to be in programs that are more than 6 hours per week. 3. When we accommodate teens in adult programs, we don't demand that the state and the community provide appropriate programs for teens." Because Nancy and I were concentrating on: * The similarities between adult and adolescent learning theory * The reality and immediacy of teens in ABE classrooms, and * Promising practices for including Teens in ABE We didn't concentrate on policy or funding issues. We were most concerned with raising awareness of what brings teens to ABE Centers, special problems of teens, and what classroom and program practices have emerged as most effective in serving teens in ABE centers (and in reducing teacher frustration). I thought it would be interesting to hear from the thoughtful people on this list about teen/adult interaction in ABE programs and whether teen involvement in ABE programs does reflect a state and community neglect of the teen population. Sincerely, Alisa Vlahakis Povenmire System for Adult Basic Education Support- Northeast, MA avlahakis at aol.com From Anne764139 at aol.com Sat Nov 6 09:36:28 1999 From: Anne764139 at aol.com (Anne764139 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 09:36:28 EST Subject: NLA Discussion: What is the Right Program Size? Message-ID: <199911062310.SAA21516@europe.std.com> Jan, I agree that the community's support is critical. As the director of a CBO that has grown from a small (less than $50,000 in 1990) to a medium ($600,000) ABE program, I think that growth has helped us in our ability to muster the community's support. From my perspective, the secondary benefits of increased organizational capacity have enabled us to do the following: develop collaborative projects with other agencies and groups that have resulted in both privately and publicly funded services, form and sustain a city wide ABE Task Force, and sponsor special events that bring much needed publicity to ABE. Anne Serino Lynn, MA From lmcgrail at mindspring.com Fri Nov 5 09:46:22 1999 From: lmcgrail at mindspring.com (Loren McGrail) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 09:46:22 -0500 (EST) Subject: NLA Discussion: Civics or civic participation? Same or different? Message-ID: <199911071351.IAA09884@europe.std.com> [Cross-posted from NIFL-ESL] Dear Colleagues, I am interested to know from my colleagues what they think about this civics education initiative. Specifically, do people see civics education the same or different from EFF's concept of civic participation or community action as we call it here at Literacy South? How will it work for programs that serve undocumented immigrants? or farmworkers? Is this a call to teach US history and government? If so, Through whose eyes? I am interested in other people's thoughts about these issues as we all begin to prepare project designs. Perhaps there is even a consensus around some of these ideas that could support a coalition of some kind. For those colleagues in the Southeast who see the opportunity here to explore civic participation activities, Literacy South would like to connect with state staff developers or programs who might want to participate in a regional demonstration project along these lines. As some of you know already, Literacy South has already done some work in this area in our citizenship/civic participation project last year in North Carolina and with our curriculum development project around the Census 2000 this year. Please contact me directly at the address below if you or your state is interested in working with us. I look forward to hearing these issues discussed through the listserv and from my southern colleagues directly. Thank you. PS Our annotated bibiliography on citizenship/civic participation is now available through ERIC. -- Loren McGrail Executive Director, Literary South lmcgrail at mindspring.com www.literacysouth.org From Rgspacone at aol.com Sun Nov 7 18:55:38 1999 From: Rgspacone at aol.com (Rgspacone at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 18:55:38 EST Subject: NLA Discussion: Civics or Civic Participation Message-ID: <199911080120.UAA25410@europe.std.com> On Nov 7, Loren asked, "Do people see civics education the same or different from EFF's concept of civic particpation or community action as we call it here at Literacy South?" I know very little about this civics education initiative and the specific issues involved, but I would like to respond to this question as it possibly relates to how we all can use EFF for teaching and learning. I assume that a design for curriculum and instruction depends on the different purposes of learners, teachers, programs and states. As much as possible, projects are (and should be) as varied and special as the people involved. The entire EFF system is meant to work within and across all programs, regions, states, and educational initiatives; it is tacit not explicit. Therefore, I think the EFF framework is extremely useful for conceptualizing all types of adult education programs; in this case that Loren cites, I hope people will consider using the EFF citizen/community member role map to prepare project designs. The EFF citizen/community member role map describes what adults in literacy programs and in life need to know and be able to do to successfully fulfill that particular role. All three EFF role maps (including the worker and parent/family member role maps) are a consensus depiction of adult responsibilities and activities. The EFF role maps provide a common definition of role requirements that we can use as a blue print or action plan for designing curriculum and instruction. Together, the role maps define the scope and content of broad areas of repsonsibility for these three critical adult roles. The role maps show how knowledge, skills, and abilities are combined in actual practice; they help identify the context and purposes for learning; they are sufficiently elaborated so that we can use them to help prepare students to perform their roles successfully. They are descriptive not prescriptive. The EFF system invites community action; it involves students, teachers, and community members as partners; it focuses on how skills and knowledge will be used for specific purposes in different activities. The EFF framework simply makes clear the connections and the divisions between what we teach in programs and how adults use what we teach in their daily lives. The EFF role maps, common activities, skills, and content standards do not necessarily determine the design of a literacy education program; it's the people doing the teaching and learning who are ultimately responsible for that. For an example of this, see the June 1999, issue of Focus on Basics. In it, Shirley Wright describes how the Akinson Learning Center used the EFF citizen/community member role map in concert with the EFF skills to focus on local community, town government, state government and federal government in an adult high school US History class. The EFF initiative has a NIFL LINCS listserv for practitoners to discuss questions and issues related to the practical applications of the EFF framework and standards. To subscribe to the NIFL-4EFF list, send an e-mail to: LISTPROC at LITERACY.NIFL.GOV with the following message: subscribe NIFL-4EFF firstname lastname or through the NIFL website at: http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/discussions.html Ronna Spacone NIFL-4EFF Facilitator rgspacone at aol.com From cbking2 at flash.net Mon Nov 8 11:50:03 1999 From: cbking2 at flash.net (cbking2) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 10:50:03 -0600 Subject: NLA Discussion: Civics or civic participation? Same or different? Message-ID: <199911081616.LAA12413@europe.std.com> A brief comment about the following excerpt from Loren McGrail's interesting post about civics education: "How will it work for programs that serve undocumented immigrants? or farmworkers? Is this a call to teach US history and government? If so, Through whose eyes?" In short, it should be taught through THEIR eyes. We have discussed this here before; but generally democracy is different from all other ideologies in that it seeks to return power to the people, to groups, to associations gathered as lots of voices under a single theme or idea. In his classic work "Democracy in America," DeTocqueville remarked about this when the Frenchman toured America in the early 1830's. A single voice in a democracy carries little weight; so in America, voices are grouped together in associations and groups. To teach US History and Government is not to indoctrinate, though it can be taught like that. It's rather to make people aware of the structure of a system that holds power in tension--existing in the call to dialogue in a "government" OF the people, FOR the people, and BY the people? WHEN did this get lost? Many (most?) immigrants are keenly aware of political differences in a way that many Americans are not--precisely because they have experienced first-hand what a different, less free (to say the least) governmental system is like. For instance, my sister who teaches ESL in Oklahoma City, is teaching one young man from Russia who faces being drafted into the Army if he doesn't do well here--they are fighting wars in his country--and he will quite possibly put on a uniform and die if he has to go back. He and his parents already KNOW about peace and freedom and what they mean in a way that many Americans, fortunately of course, are oblivious to. When Paulo Friere talks about developing political consciousness in "third world" countries with oppressive regimes, he is speaking of the "from the bottom up" development that must happen if persons are to become free. But in our country--whose principles are already institutionalized and "in the air we breathe," our problem is NOT to develop a new political system from the ground up. Our problem is for the people here to rediscover and recognize the value of what we already have, and take the necessary steps to keep it. It's THEIR "eyes" that must rediscover and recognize this. I don't know what the creators of the civics thrust are thinking, and would certainly like to. But as far as teaching methods are concerned, ESL students are often a wealth of experience and information about all sorts of political meaning. Civics, a re-public-an system, etc., is (still?) American, but not MERELY that. One need not abandon what is worth keeping about one's own culture to understand or appropriate democracy and civics as one's own. "Like a duck to water," comes to mind for those students who are here precisely because of politically oppressive experiences. Teaching about a government structure is one thing, and teaching about what is SUPPOSED to happen in that structure is another--that's the call to understand it and embrace it "through their own eyes." If along the way they find out by looking around how far we have actually drifted from our foundations, and that many who claim the USA as theirs are also leeches and opportunists on the democratic system, then it's up to them what they do with that knowledge, while we still can. Catherine King > -----Original Message----- > From: nla-approval at world.std.com [mailto:nla-approval at world.std.com]On > Behalf Of Loren McGrail > Sent: Friday, November 05, 1999 8:46 AM > To: nla at world.std.com > Subject: NLA Discussion: Civics or civic participation? Same or > different? > > > [Cross-posted from NIFL-ESL] > > Dear Colleagues, > > I am interested to know from my colleagues what they think about > this civics > education initiative. Specifically, do people see civics > education the same > or different from EFF's concept of civic participation or > community action as > we call it here at Literacy South? How will it work for programs > that serve > undocumented immigrants? or farmworkers? Is this a call to teach > US history and > government? If so, Through whose eyes? I am interested in other people's > thoughts about these issues as we all begin to prepare project designs. > Perhaps there is even a consensus around some of these ideas that could > support a coalition of some kind. > > For those colleagues in the Southeast who see the opportunity here to > explore civic participation activities, Literacy South would like > to connect > with state staff developers or programs who might want to > participate in a > regional demonstration project along these lines. As some of you > know already, > Literacy South has already done some work in this area in our > citizenship/civic participation project last year in North > Carolina and with > our curriculum development project around the Census 2000 this year. > Please contact me directly at the address below if you or your state is > interested in working with us. > > I look forward to hearing these issues discussed through the listserv > and from my southern colleagues directly. Thank you. > > > PS Our annotated bibiliography on citizenship/civic participation is > now available through ERIC. > -- > > Loren McGrail > Executive Director, Literary South > lmcgrail at mindspring.com > www.literacysouth.org > > > From Sarah_Newcomb at ed.gov Mon Nov 8 11:41:52 1999 From: Sarah_Newcomb at ed.gov (Newcomb, Sarah) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 11:41:52 -0500 Subject: NLA Info: Thursday Notes info from DOL Message-ID: <199911081723.MAA24153@europe.std.com> Thanks for your responses to our Thursday Notes 11/4/99 item which begins "Latest tallies from the Department of Labor show the following States say they expect to submit unified plans..." The item correctly reported what the Department of Labor has shared with the Department of Education based on its information concerning your States. If you believe State's plans are not appropriately reflected or your State is not on the list at all, you should check with the Department of Labor folks in your State. We are pleased that by sharing this Department of Labor information with adult educators we could help identify some potential discrepancies in reports that Department has received so that they can be corrected. > -----Original Message----- > From: Bickerton, Robert P [SMTP:RBickerton at doe.mass.edu] > Sent: Friday, November 05, 1999 8:04 AM > To: NLA at world.std.com > Subject: NLA Info: Thursday Notes Correction > > > NLA Colleagues, > > A brief correction to the "Thursday Notes" cross-posting: > > Massachusetts is NOT "undecided" about including Title II in our State's > Unified Plan -- we are working strenuously and with a great deal of > optimism > on our unified plan which will be submitted next April. We will be > circulating drafts for review and comment by the field/public as soon as > they are ready. > > take care, > bob bickerton, MA director of adult ed > > -----Original Message----- > From: DJRosen at world.std.com [mailto:DJRosen at world.std.com] > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 1999 11:42 AM > To: NLA at world.std.com > Subject: NLA Info: Thursday Notes > > > [Cross-posted from NIFL-Workplace] > > >From the Desk of Ronald S. Pugsley, Director, DAEL > Office of Vocational and Adult Education > Editor: Sarah Newcomb > Production: Rose Tilghman > November 4, 1999 > _____________________________________ > Appropriations > > With differences temporarily ironed out between the House and Senate > versions of the Labor, Health and Human Services and Education > appropriations bill, the House approved the conference agreement on > October > 28. The Senate approved it on November 2. Meanwhile, the President signed > short-term legislation to keep programs running through November 5. He is > expected to veto the conference agreement in part because of its low > levels > for education programs. > > 16 States Expect > Unified Plans > > Latest tallies from the Department of Labor show the following States say > they expect to submit unified plans that include WIA Title I and other > programs: AL; AK; AR; CO; HI; IA; MD; MO; NH; ND; SC; SD; VA; WA; WV; and > WY. States indicating they are undecided at press time include: GA; MA; > NY; > RI; and VI. The remaining States tell DOL they will submit WIA Title I > plans. > > Help with Native Language Literacy > > The New York State Education Department unveiled a new Native Language > Literacy Screening Device (NLLSD) this fall to help practitioners assess > the > native language literacy levels of learners. Information gleaned can > assist > with placement and instructional design to meet learners' needs. The NLLSD > contains 27 language versions of the screening device. An administrative > protocol that offers suggestions both for using the device and > interpreting > its results also is included. A limited number are available free and > additional copies sell for $15.00 plus shipping. Contact 1-877-212-8024. > > LA's McMarr Named Teacher of the Year > > The National Center on Family Literacy tapped Adult Education/ESL teacher > Sharon McMarr as the 2000 Toyota Family Literacy Teacher of the Year. > McMarr, a teacher at the San Pedro/Narbonne Community Adult School in Los > Angeles, won the title in a national competition. The award includes a > $5,000 contribution by Toyota to that family literacy program and a free > trip for McMarr to NCFL's Orlando conference in January. McMarr has been > cited for creation of a Multimedia Network Center that provides ESL/Family > Literacy learners with a world of computers, email, voicemail and > problem-solving instruction through directed teaching and computerized > learning. Contact pgersh at famlit.org > > SD's Mike Anderson > > Here are promised details on South Dakota's new State Director and GED > Administrator, Mike Anderson, on board since September 7 (See 8/19/99 > issue). Anderson joins adult education from his post as the state's > Department of Veterans Affairs Education Coordinator and experience as an > Air Force Guidance Counselor. He's also been a commercial radio > broadcaster > and holds degrees in education and counseling. Welcome him at > > mike.anderson at state.sd.us > ____________________________________________________________ > > A Fact Sheet from the Division of Adult Education and Literacy > Office of Vocational and Adult Education > OVAE Homepage http://www.ed.gov/offices/OVAE/ From Dwyoho at aol.com Mon Nov 8 12:31:50 1999 From: Dwyoho at aol.com (Dwyoho at aol.com) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 12:31:50 EST Subject: NLA Discussion: Teenagers in ABE Message-ID: <199911081852.NAA09803@europe.std.com> As a former high school principal, I have to bite at this one. The problem is indeed a lack of programs for teens who won't or can't be helped in the high school but who are not well served in an adult ed classroom either. Let me offer this story: One afternoon a gentleman came into our office, located within walking distance of the adult ed center, and specifically requested enrollment in a GED preparation class, which we don't offer. He had been studying in Tennessee, knew his own needs, and wanted to continue where he left off. We enthusiastically and cordially referred him to the adult ed center. An hour later, he came back. He had walked to the center, took one look FROM THE OUTSIDE, and walked back to our office. We asked him what happened. His reply, and I pretty well quote, was this: "I'm not interested in going to a school where teenagers are hanging outside the doors playing their boom boxes". Some adult ed centers have been so flooded with teens aged 16-19 that older learners are turning away. One of the reasons for this is the failure of the high school system and the lack of an alternative. As a principal, I'm sorry to say I actually had the birthdays of certain students written on my calendar. When they turned 17, mandatory attendance regulations no longer applied to them. I would call these select few into my office, hopefully with their parents, and strongly suggest adult ed. Usually I was successful in frankly, getting rid of disruptive, frustrated, sometimes criminally delinquent troublemakers in this way. I felt I had no other alternative, other than expulsion, whereby the teen would be barred from attending any district program, including adult ed. Most of these "pushouts" never show up at the adult ed program, but some do. I talked once with an adult ed instructor who told me she was scratching her head trying to figure out why she had to send learners "to the office" and use her lunch hour to hold detention hall in an adult ed center. That is not to say all teens in adult ed programs represent this type of population with many, many needs far beyond an education. But here in SC, the legislature has invested, again, in an alternative school program now being piloted. But guess what? Many alternative school programs for older at-risk teens are being housed in adult ed centers, and the adult ed director is assigned as the ultimate administrator. Oh, there is usually an "assistant director" who does the on line work with the program, but the administrative headaches of accountability and the out and out security problems of troubled teens are in the lap of the adult ed director. High quality, highly specialized alternative programs for these teens are the answer. But they are expensive. The bottom line is, the "system" will not make a sustained investment in these young adults. So we see an erosion of resources in the adult ed sector, already disgracefully under supported, and more generally the continued phenomenon of young adults 16-25 running amok all over the country. Does adult ed bear the moral responsibility to take on this cause? I think not. But I predict the problem will fall to us by default. Debbie Yoho, Columbia, SC From alzbec at interaccess.com Mon Nov 8 12:39:35 1999 From: alzbec at interaccess.com (Aliza Becker) Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 11:39:35 -0600 Subject: NLA Info: Immigration Policy Update Message-ID: <199911081911.OAA13935@europe.std.com> National Immigration Forum Date: November 8, 1999 To: Forum Associate E-mail List From: Maurice Belanger Re: Immigration Policy Update ---------------------------------------------------------------- CONTENTS: Text of Forum Fax of November 8th Text of Backgrounder on Naturalization Funding Text of Backgrounder on Refugee Resettlement Funding ---------------------------------------------------------------- IN CONGRESS - Advocates Press Priorities at the End of the Congressional Session ----------- As Congress nears the end of a year of few accomplishments, immigrant advocacy organizations held a press conference on November 1st to ask that Congress and the Administration include in their final budget deal some provisions that would benefit immigrants and refugees. Each of the items highlighted at the press conference have already received bipartisan support in Congress. Although not all of the items on the list are related to the budget, it was noted that in the past several years, major policy issues have been decided in the context of the budget, including the 1996 immigration law, which passed as a part of an omnibus budget bill. While some "Fix '96" priorities are on this list (Central American parity, a resolution for the late legalization class, and further restoration of safety net benefits to immigrants) others (notably due process issues) are not. Although support in Congress is growing to ameliorate some of the 1996 provisions eliminating due process, advocates are still a long way from achieving the broad support necessary for Congress to reverse its 1996 actions. The anti-immigrant 1996 laws will continue to be a focus of the Fix '96 Campaign next year. * Parity for Central Americans - The Central American and Haitian Adjustment Act would provide the same opportunity for permanent residence to Salvadorans, Guatemalans, Haitians, and Hondurans as was given to Nicaraguans and Cubans by the Nicaraguan Adjustment and Central American Relief Act. Providing permanent residence to all similarly-situated qualifying individuals from these countries would finally bring to a close years of discriminatory treatment suffered by these groups in varying degree. The bill was introduced with Administration support in the House (H.R. 2722) by Christopher Smith (R-NJ) and 27 original co-sponsors and in the Senate (S. 1592) by Richard Durbin (D-IL) and Edward Kennedy (D-MA). * Legalization for Legalization Applicants - Tens of thousands of immigrants were wrongly denied legalization in the 1980s, when certain INS regulations and practices implementing the Immigration Reform and Control Act were found by the courts to be illegal. The INS has been fighting to keep these immigrants from legalizing ever since. As part of a year-end legislative package, these immigrants should be given what was their due in 1986. * Medical Safety Net Benefits for Pregnant Women and Children - In 1996, the welfare reform law made legal immigrants ineligible for most public safety net benefits. Since then, Congress has restored some benefits, but legislation introduced this year to restore additional benefits to vulnerable immigrants has stalled. At a minimum, the final budget deal should include the restoration of further medical benefits to vulnerable immigrants, including immigrant children and pregnant women. A bill sponsored by the late Senator John Chafee, the Immigrant Children's Health Improvement Act of 1999 (S.1227), would accomplish that minimal goal. * Resources to Reduce the Citizenship Backlog - When he submitted his budget early in the year, the President asked Congress for $124 million for citizenship backlog reduction. Congress included that amount in the appropriations bill that governs INS spending, but the bill was vetoed by President Clinton for reasons unrelated. Although Congress had approved that amount for citizenship backlog reduction, it has also diverted $30 million from the same account--the Examinations Fee Account--to pay for INS enforcement activities. This will dilute any additional resources the INS receives for citizenship backlog reduction, by increasing the backlogs in other areas. The raiding of the Examinations Fee Account by Congress to pay for Congressional priorities unrelated to application processing has been an important contributing factor in the inability of the Immigration Service to keep pace with its workload. * Funding to Achieve Refugee Protection Goals - This year, Congress and the Administration agreed to reverse a downward trend in the annual admission of refugees. However, Congress cut the budget needed to accomplish the targeted admission level for next year. The Administration had requested a budget of $660 million for Migration and Refugee Assistance. Congress approved $625 million. The $35 million difference may lead to a reduction in refugee admissions of 10,000-15,000 next year. The Commerce-Justice-State appropriations bill has been vetoed for a variety of reasons. The upcoming negotiations between the White House and the Congress over the spending bill provide an opportunity to have the $35 million restored. Negotiations to settle differences between the White House and the Congress have begun. They should be completed by November 10th, when Congress is now slated to go out for the year. ------------------ INS REORGANIZATION - New Bill Turns Reorganization in the Wrong Direction ------------------ At the beginning of the year, it looked as though some form of reorganization of the INS would be accomplished in this session of Congress, and that there was a chance that the agency would ultimately be restructured in a way that makes sense from the perspective of immigrant advocates. Senator Spencer Abraham (R-MI), Chair of the Immigration Subcommittee in the Senate, declared the issue to be his top priority. Advocates had come together around a set of principles that, if followed, would result in an agency that efficiently served its immigrant customers and enforced immigration laws. Unfortunately, nothing happened until near the end of the legislative year, and by that time, the action focused around a bill authored by the House Commerce-Justice-State Appropriations Subcommittee Chair Harold Rogers (R-KY). His bill was not endorsed by pro-immigrant groups, including the Forum. In the last few weeks, negotiations have taken place to try to improve the Rogers bill to accommodate the concerns of advocates. In particular, there was concern about provisions relating to the person in charge of the new agency and his or her authority over both the service and enforcement bureaus. In addition, there were attempts to include a provision to ensure that money allocated for service activities would not be diverted for enforcement or other purposes, as often now happens. Efforts to improve the Rogers bill were thwarted by Rep. Lamar Smith, Chair of the House Immigration Subcommittee. Smith held a markup in his Subcommittee on November 4th, during which he introduced a new bill as a substitute for the Rogers bill. The bill was approved by the Subcommittee on a party-line vote. The Smith bill creates an Associate Attorney General who is nominally in charge of separate service and enforcement bureaus, but has no real supervisory authority. Under Smith's plan, each bureau would have a General Counsel's office and each bureau would have a congressional liaison office. There would be three policy offices--one for each bureau, and one in the Associate Attorney General's office. Thus, Rep. Smith has taken the original Rogers bill and made it worse. Although there is still time to pass INS reorganization legislation this year, the pro-immigrant community continues to argue that this legislation must be significantly improved before final passage. ------- FIX '96 - Rescheduled Rally at the Capitol Attracts Members of Congress ------- On October 14th, hundreds of immigrants and their advocates again converged on Capitol Hill to press Congress for changes in the 1996 immigration and welfare laws and their harsh anti-immigrant provisions. Immigrants attending this rally were largely from New York and Miami. They had been prevented from attending a September 17th gathering due to Hurricane Floyd. The rally attracted members of Congress who are committed to making changes in the laws. Speaking to the assembled immigrants were: Representatives Xavier Becerra (D-CA), Lincoln Diaz-Balart (R-FL), Bob Filner (D-CA), Martin Frost (D-TX), Luis Gutierrez (D-IL), Christopher Smith (R-NJ), Sheila Jackson Lee (D-TX), Carrie Meek (D-FL), Patsy Mink (D-HI), Connie Morella (R-MD), Jerrold Nadler (D-NY), Frank Pallone (D-NJ), Robert Menendez (D-NJ),Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R-FL), Jan Schakowsky (D-IL), and Lucile Roybal-Allard (D-CA). Even with the growing support in Congress, however, it is unlikely that the Fix '96 Campaign will achieve many of its goals in this Congressional session. The Campaign is still far from achieving the broad support--and sense of urgency--that will result in significant changes to the 1996 laws. Minor steps may yet be taken this year however. Some of the demands made by leading national immigrant advocacy organizations in a November 1st press conference (see above) are part of the Fix '96 effort. It should be noted that any legislation introduced thus far to fix various aspects of the 1996 laws will not have to be re-written and re-introduced if Congress fails to consider the legislation this year. The same Congress returns next year, in its second session, and picks up where it left off. * New Bill Would Help Few, but Symbolically Important On October 1st, Rep Bill McCollum (R-FL), along with Lincoln Diaz-Balart (R-FL), Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R-FL), Robert Wexler (D-FL), Brian Bilbray (R-CA), and Doug Ose (R-CA), introduced H.R. 2999, the Fairness for Permanent Residents Act of 1999. As written, the bill would help few legal residents who have been detained pending deportation for crimes committed many years ago, due to retroactively applied provisions of the 1996 immigration law. Symbolically, however, the bill marks an important milestone in the efforts of advocates to convince Congress that it went too far in 1996. Rep. McCollum was a sponsor of the provisions of the 1996 anti-terrorism and immigration laws that dealt harshly with immigrants who committed crimes at any time in the past. It is significant that this architect of the 1996 law recognizes a problem, and his bill may serve as the foundation for legislation that makes more meaningful changes next year. -------------- NATURALIZATION - Census Report on Foreign Born Generates Some Alarm on Naturalization Rates -------------- The Bureau of the Census recently released a report on the foreign-born population that received a lot of attention for one of its findings. According to the report, the rate of naturalization among the foreign-born is at its lowest point in at least a century--40%. The Census findings were derived from their March, 1997 Current Population Survey. Unfortunately, the findings were interpreted by many to mean that immigrants are not interested in becoming citizens. That conclusion cannot be derived from the Census report, however, for a number of reasons. The Census survey does not distinguish between undocumented immigrants, immigrants who have resided in the U.S. for less than the minimum period necessary to qualify for naturalization, and those who are eligible for citizenship. Thus, the rate of naturalization is understated--many of those counted do not qualify for citizenship. Another reason the report cannot be relied on to gauge current interest in citizenship is that the survey was taken too early to reflect the results of the record demand for citizenship in the mid 1990s. While immigrants were applying for citizenship in record numbers, the number who had actually become citizens did not make much of an impact on the rate of citizenship in the entire foreign-born population. Interestingly, in March of 1997--the very month the Census survey was conducted--a record one-month total of 184,000 immigrants applied for citizenship. By the end of the year, more than 1.4 million immigrants had applied for citizenship. There are other reasons to explain the inadequacy of the Census report in gauging the interest in citizenship among immigrants at this time. The bottom line, however, as the Census report itself revealed, is that over time immigrants become citizens. Approximately two-thirds of immigrants who have resided in the U.S. for 20 or more years have naturalized. This is consistent with the findings of a study released earlier this year by the National Forum, which examined 1990 Census data. While the press focused on naturalization, the report covers a variety of characteristics of the foreign-born, and can be found on the Census Bureau's website at: http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/foreign.html >>>>>>>>>>>TEXT OF NATURALIZATION FUNDING BACKGROUNDER<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< BACKGROUNDER November 1, 1999 Congress and the Administration Must Work Together to Eliminate the Citizenship Backlog The Citizenship Backlog - The number of immigrants applying for citizenship increased dramatically in the mid-1990s, from approximately 522,000 in 1993 to 1.6 million in 1997. The efforts of the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) to keep up with the record demand revealed weaknesses in the citizenship application process. The agency was forced to increase the security of the process and to significantly upgrade its systems. While this took place, the backlog of citizenship applications skyrocketed, briefly exceeding two million early in 1999. Immigrants who applied in 1997 potentially faced a wait stretching two or more years, depending on demand in the INS office in which they applied. Recently, the INS has made progress in reducing the naturalization backlog, but it is too early to tell whether the backlog reduction will be permanent. Funding for Naturalization - Naturalization processing is paid for by fees immigrants pay when they apply. But not all of the fees collected from immigrants actually are spent on adjudicating applications. In recent years, millions of dollars in fees have been used to pay for the redesign and modernization of INS systems, and for a variety of unfunded mandates imposed by Congress. As a result, applicants pay not only for the processing of their own applications, but for the correction of long-standing management problems within the INS, and for unrelated purposes dictated by Congress. To make matters worse, the availability of application fees to pay for the processing of applications depends in part on the accuracy of INS's forecast of its future workload. If the INS underestimates its workload, it must go to Congress to seek permission to change its plans-a process that inhibits any rapid response to changed circumstances. Specifically, if more applications (and fees) are received by the INS than originally anticipated, the agency must get the permission of Congress to spend the additional collected fees to process the applications. On several occasions, Congress has delayed or refused INS permission to spend the fees immigrants have paid. The Three Pillars of Backlog Reduction - The INS has been able to make progress in reducing the naturalization backlog due to the modernization of its processes, the decrease in applications received in the past several months, and by the diversion of resources from the processing of other applications. Backlogs are growing in the processing of other INS forms. The agency simply does not have the resources to ensure that the naturalization backlog will continue to recede, while at the same time preventing other backlogs to grow. Complicating matters, Congress continues to divert fees from the account used to process applications, in order to pay for its own priorities. The Immigration Service Must Be Given the Resources it Needs to Reduce the Backlog - This year, the Administration has requested an amount of $124 million to continue backlog reduction efforts. This additional funding-and perhaps more-will be the minimum necessary to accomplish important additional steps in the redesign of the naturalization process so as to eliminate bottlenecks, create uniform procedures and forms, and establish standards for quality control and customer satisfaction. Congress and the Administration must work together. The Administration must ensure that additional resources are allocated and used efficiently. Congress must allocate those resources, and cease its practice of diverting immigrant fee money for purposes other than processing immigrant applications. >>>>>>>>>>>TEXT OF REFUGEE RESETTLEMENT FUNDING BACKGROUNDER<<<<<<<<<< BACKGROUNDER November 1, 1999 Congress and the Administration Must Agree to Restore America's Leadership in Welcoming Refugees A Renewed Commitment to Refugees is Threatened - The number of refugees admitted each year is determined by the President in consultation with Congress. In recent years, the number of refugees admitted to the U.S. has declined by 41%-from 132,000 in Fiscal Year 1993 to 78,000 in Fiscal Year 1999. Earlier this year, Congress and the Administration agreed to reverse the downward trend in refugee admissions. A level of 90,000 refugees was set for next year. However, Congress has reduced the funding requested by the Administration to accomplish that goal. In fact, Congress has allocated $35 million short of the amount needed. If the funding is not restored, admission of refugees might be reduced by as much as 10,000 next year. Refugee Resettlement - Under international and U.S. law, refugees are persons fleeing persecution based on race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion. While immigrants choose to leave their countries-to join families or to seek better lives-refugees are forced from their homes. Refugee resettlement is an important tool of protection that represents America's tradition of rescuing persons who fear persecution because of their political or religious beliefs. Although the U.S. currently accepts less than 1% of the world's refugees on an annual basis, resettlement of refugees in the U.S. and other countries is a critical means of relieving pressure on countries where refugees first flee-countries of "first asylum." These countries are mostly developing nations, with few resources, that host large refugee populations, often indefinitely. For most refugees, returning home when conditions permit is the preferred solution, and in recent years large numbers have indeed repatriated. However, for a small number of refugees, resettlement is the only viable option. A Public-Private Partnership - Refugee resettlement in the United States is the product of a longstanding public-private partnership that includes the federal government, state and local governments, and a charitable network of religious, service, and ethnic organizations. This partnership has an excellent track record of helping new arrivals adapt and become self-sufficient. Where Refugees Come From - Overall, refugees comprise only about 7% of the annual number of newcomers in the U.S. In 1998, refugees resettled in the U.S. came from Bosnia, the former Soviet Union, Vietnam, Cuba, Somalia, Sudan, and other countries. Refugees become permanent residents after one year. Most go on to become citizens. The Importance of Our Commitment to Refugees - Other nations carefully monitor our refugee policies as a means of establishing their own. Diminished U.S. leadership in this area threatens to undermine the international community's tenuous commitment to protecting refugees throughout the world. The American people remain committed to the idea of protecting those in dire need, as the Kosovo crisis has demonstrated. Congress should not undermine that commitment. Full funding for refugee resettlement should be restored, so that the U.S. will be able to resettle the number of refugees already agreed to by the Administration and Congress. ============================== Maurice Belanger Senior Policy Associate National Immigration Forum E-Mail: mbelanger at immigrationforum.org Web: http://www.immigrationforum.org -- Aliza Becker Phone: (773) 267-0746 Fax (773) 478-5091 E-mail alzbec at interaccess.com From ftracy-mumf at state.de.us Mon Nov 8 15:12:52 1999 From: ftracy-mumf at state.de.us (Frances Tracy-Mumford) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 15:12:52 EST Subject: NLA Discussion: Teenagers in ABE Message-ID: <199911090208.VAA01517@europe.std.com> Several states have been fortunate to secure funding for out-of-school youth. With alternative or out-of-school youth funding, special initiatives have been created to reach the 16 - 21 year old age group. For sure, this age group brings a unique set of needs that have to be addressed if the program is to provide successful learning experiences. Combining "over 21" adults and youth in the same classrooms posed some problems and resolved others. The positive result was that the "older" adult had a calming effect on the youngert students. Dr. Fran Tracy-Mumford State Director of Adult Education, DE 302.739.3743 http://ftracy-mumf at state.de.us ---------- Original Text ---------- From: , on 11/8/99 1:58 PM: As a former high school principal, I have to bite at this one. The problem is indeed a lack of programs for teens who won't or can't be helped in the high school but who are not well served in an adult ed classroom either. Let me offer this story: One afternoon a gentleman came into our office, located within walking distance of the adult ed center, and specifically requested enrollment in a GED preparation class, which we don't offer. He had been studying in Tennessee, knew his own needs, and wanted to continue where he left off. We enthusiastically and cordially referred him to the adult ed center. An hour later, he came back. He had walked to the center, took one look FROM THE OUTSIDE, and walked back to our office. We asked him what happened. His reply, and I pretty well quote, was this: "I'm not interested in going to a school where teenagers are hanging outside the doors playing their boom boxes". Some adult ed centers have been so flooded with teens aged 16-19 that older learners are turning away. One of the reasons for this is the failure of the high school system and the lack of an alternative. As a principal, I'm sorry to say I actually had the birthdays of certain students written on my calendar. When they turned 17, mandatory attendance regulations no longer applied to them. I would call these select few into my office, hopefully with their parents, and strongly suggest adult ed. Usually I was successful in frankly, getting rid of disruptive, frustrated, sometimes criminally delinquent troublemakers in this way. I felt I had no other alternative, other than expulsion, whereby the teen would be barred from attending any district program, including adult ed. Most of these "pushouts" never show up at the adult ed program, but some do. I talked once with an adult ed instructor who told me she was scratching her head trying to figure out why she had to send learners "to the office" and use her lunch hour to hold detention hall in an adult ed center. That is not to say all teens in adult ed programs represent this type of population with many, many needs far beyond an education. But here in SC, the legislature has invested, again, in an alternative school program now being piloted. But guess what? Many alternative school programs for older at-risk teens are being housed in adult ed centers, and the adult ed director is assigned as the ultimate administrator. Oh, there is usually an "assistant director" who does the on line work with the program, but the administrative headaches of accountability and the out and out security problems of troubled teens are in the lap of the adult ed director. High quality, highly specialized alternative programs for these teens are the answer. But they are expensive. The bottom line is, the "system" will not make a sustained investment in these young adults. So we see an erosion of resources in the adult ed sector, already disgracefully under supported, and more generally the continued phenomenon of young adults 16-25 running amok all over the country. Does adult ed bear the moral responsibility to take on this cause? I think not. But I predict the problem will fall to us by default. Debbie Yoho, Columbia, SC From grandeur at corinthian.net Tue Nov 9 07:49:52 1999 From: grandeur at corinthian.net (Sally McIntosh) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 07:49:52 -0500 Subject: NLA Discussion: Teenagers in ABE Message-ID: <199911091415.JAA02177@europe.std.com> I find the majority of the teens who come into my program are truthfully seeking a continuation of their education. Many had some discipline problems in high school, but feel the circumstances were out of their control. The remainder are "good" students who cannot work in the disruptive environment of the present day high school. For the most part, these youth learn quickly, and will work for 4 hours straight without a break, very much in the same manner as their older adult ed classmates. Of course, if you are the kind of instructor who needs a quiet classroom, then these young people will add some noise. My classes have a consistent 60% under 21 ratio to the 40% over 21 age. The classes are all day, five days per week. By the way, I'd like to ask about the difference in the sexes in classes. Almost all youth are male, with a few female who try half heartedly. I have a few theories, but no hard research on the social pressures and economic issues that cause this imbalance. I teach full time in a small, rural, economically depressed county in Georgia. Sally McIntosh Marshallville (Macon County) Georgia From pcoleman at dtae.org Tue Nov 9 12:24:19 1999 From: pcoleman at dtae.org (Coleman, Preston) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 12:24:19 -0500 Subject: NLA Discussion: Teenagers in ABE Message-ID: <199911091816.NAA17270@europe.std.com> Hello, Sally. I work in the state of Georgia's Office of Adult Literacy in Atlanta, and I handle a lot of the statistical data concerning adult education programs. Across the state, 16-18 year old black and white males are far more likely to attend adult ed programs than 16-18 year old black and white females. 19-24 year old black and white males are slightly more likely to attend adult ed programs than 19-24 year old black and white females. After age 25, black and white females are far more likely to attend adult ed than black and white males, and this continues right past age 60. I don't have any evidence to explain this difference, but I suspect that it's primarily cultural. For example, among Asians, females are more likely to attend adult ed at all age levels except 60 and over, where males and females are equally represented. Among Hispanics, males are more likely to attend adult ed up to age 45, after which females are more likely to attend. I can't say precisely how different cultures or subcultures might account for the differences, but it seems clear that there are sex-based circumstances and expectations that influence who drops out of high school and who attends adult ed programs. Do other states or regions experience similar patterns of attendance based on age, race, and sex? And does anyone have a theory that might explain the differences? Preston Coleman, Ph.D. Georgia Dept. of Technical and Adult Education 1800 Century Place, N.E., Suite 400 Atlanta, GA 30345-4304 404-679-5234 pcoleman at dtae.org > -----Original Message----- > From: Sally McIntosh [SMTP:grandeur at corinthian.net] > Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 1999 7:50 AM > To: nla at world.std.com > Subject: NLA Discussion: Teenagers in ABE > > > I find the majority of the teens who come into my program are truthfully > seeking a continuation of their education. Many had some discipline > problems in high school, but feel the circumstances were out of their > control. The remainder are "good" students who cannot work in the > disruptive environment of the present day high school. For the most part, > these youth learn quickly, and will work for 4 hours straight without a > break, very much in the same manner as their older adult ed classmates. > Of > course, if you are the kind of instructor who needs a quiet classroom, > then > these young people will add some noise. My classes have a consistent 60% > under 21 ratio to the 40% over 21 age. The classes are all day, five days > per week. By the way, I'd like to ask about the difference in the sexes > in > classes. Almost all youth are male, with a few female who try half > heartedly. I have a few theories, but no hard research on the social > pressures and economic issues that cause this imbalance. I teach full > time > in a small, rural, economically depressed county in Georgia. > Sally McIntosh > Marshallville (Macon County) Georgia > From hbeder at rci.rutgers.edu Tue Nov 9 16:56:25 1999 From: hbeder at rci.rutgers.edu (Hal Beder) Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 16:56:25 -0500 Subject: NLA Discussion: Teenagers in ABE Message-ID: <199911100552.AAA11336@europe.std.com> >From what we have observed in our classroom dynamics study,having teenagers in the classroom can be a significant problem. It's not that they are teenagers, it is that they often exhibit the same beaviors that caused them to dropout in the first place. Incidence of class disruption were quite common in the classes we observed with teenagers and disruption was virtually non-existent in classes with all adults. Having teenagers in class places a burden on teachers who are already overburdened with mixed levels of instruction, open enrollments and large classes. Adult literacy may be functioning as the safety valve for states who are dropping out large numbers due to more stringent requirements. Shouldn't K_12 be meeting is own responsibility for education instead of making it our responsibility? Hal Beder At 03:12 PM 11/8/99 EST, you wrote: > >Several states have been fortunate to secure funding for out-of-school youth. >With alternative or out-of-school youth funding, special initiatives have >been created to reach the 16 - 21 year old age group. For sure, this age group >brings a unique set of needs that have to be addressed if the program is >to provide successful learning experiences. > >Combining "over 21" adults and youth in the same classrooms posed some problems > and resolved others. The positive result was that the "older" adult had a >calming effect on the youngert students. > >Dr. Fran Tracy-Mumford >State Director of Adult Education, DE >302.739.3743 >http://ftracy-mumf at state.de.us >---------- Original Text ---------- > >From: , on 11/8/99 1:58 PM: > > >As a former high school principal, I have to bite at this one. The problem >is indeed a lack of programs for teens who won't or can't be helped in the >high school but who are not well served in an adult ed classroom either. > >Let me offer this story: One afternoon a gentleman came into our office, >located within walking distance of the adult ed center, and specifically >requested enrollment in a GED preparation class, which we don't offer. He >had been studying in Tennessee, knew his own needs, and wanted to continue >where he left off. We enthusiastically and cordially referred him to the >adult ed center. An hour later, he came back. He had walked to the center, >took one look FROM THE OUTSIDE, and walked back to our office. > >We asked him what happened. His reply, and I pretty well quote, was this: >"I'm not interested in going to a school where teenagers are hanging outside >the doors playing their boom boxes". > >Some adult ed centers have been so flooded with teens aged 16-19 that older >learners are turning away. One of the reasons for this is the failure of >the high school system and the lack of an alternative. As a principal, I'm >sorry to say I actually had the birthdays of certain students written on my >calendar. When they turned 17, mandatory attendance regulations no longer >applied to them. I would call these select few into my office, hopefully >with their parents, and strongly suggest adult ed. Usually I was successful >in frankly, getting rid of disruptive, frustrated, sometimes criminally >delinquent troublemakers in this way. I felt I had no other alternative, >other than expulsion, whereby the teen would be barred from attending any >district program, including adult ed. > >Most of these "pushouts" never show up at the adult ed program, but some do. >I talked once with an adult ed instructor who told me she was scratching her >head trying to figure out why she had to send learners "to the office" and >use her lunch hour to hold detention hall in an adult ed center. > >That is not to say all teens in adult ed programs represent this type of >population with many, many needs far beyond an education. But here in SC, >the legislature has invested, again, in an alternative school program now >being piloted. But guess what? Many alternative school programs for older >at-risk teens are being housed in adult ed centers, and the adult ed director >is assigned as the ultimate administrator. Oh, there is usually an >"assistant director" who does the on line work with the program, but the >administrative headaches of accountability and the out and out security >problems of troubled teens are in the lap of the adult ed director. > >High quality, highly specialized alternative programs for these teens are the >answer. But they are expensive. The bottom line is, the "system" will not >make a sustained investment in these young adults. So we see an erosion of >resources in the adult ed sector, already disgracefully under supported, and >more generally the continued phenomenon of young adults 16-25 running amok >all over the country. > >Does adult ed bear the moral responsibility to take on this cause? I think >not. But I predict the problem will fall to us by default. Debbie Yoho, >Columbia, SC > > Rutgers University Graduate School of Education 10 seminary Pl. New Brunswick, NJ 08901 732-932-7496 ext. 213 From LFredella at aol.com Tue Nov 9 18:21:59 1999 From: LFredella at aol.com (LFredella at aol.com) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 18:21:59 EST Subject: NLA Discussion: Teenagers in ABE Message-ID: <199911100606.BAA12932@europe.std.com> The issue of teenagers in adult ed classes is one we struggle with continually in our program. Ours is an adult ESL program serving Latinos primarily. Teenagers who are not in school for several reasons often want to enter our program. We wrestle with this issue on many fronts. Primarily, we believe that teenagers should stay in school. However, with the current state of affairs for ESOL in our state (Georgia) and other states, students get pathetically few hours of ESOL per week and are mainstreamed the rest of their school hours. Therefore, a recently arrived teenager might have an hour a day of ESOL but be assigned Tess of the Durbervilles in English class, for example, together with the demands of their other content classes. It's hard to encourage teens to stay in school as an alternative to adult ed when they are fighting a losing battle in their schools. Still, the adult ed classroom is not the place for them either. In our program, for example, we strongly believe in using student generated themes to drive instruction. Topics typically include family chage, work, and helping children in school. Teenagers find these themes not very interesting or relevant. Sorry, I have no solutions. I just wanted to throw in another perspective. Laureen Fredella Latin American Association From rkrawiec at mindspring.com Tue Nov 9 21:16:01 1999 From: rkrawiec at mindspring.com (rkrawiec at mindspring.com) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 21:16:01 -0500 Subject: NLA Discussion: Teenagers in ABE Message-ID: <199911100615.BAA14049@europe.std.com> I have no hard statistics, but I can say that I rarely see African-American or white men sign up for adult ed programs unless it's a mandatory shelter program, classes related to drug recovery issues, or a program that is seen as leading directly to a job. When I talk to men on the street, trying to recruit, I get the same response - 'I'm too old for education." I get this from men who are 25, 35, 45, and up. The bigger issue being ignored in this discussion is why education isn't valued in and of itself. And along with that, why is there little real discussion among adult educators as to the 'purpose' of education. Maybe men aren't coming to our classes because we haven't defined this 'purpose' in any meaningful way. Are programs spending so much time chasing grant money, and adapting their programs to fulfill the needs of funders, that they are no longer capable of defining the value of education? Rich Krawiec -----Original Message----- From: Coleman, Preston To: nla at world.std.com Date: Tuesday, November 09, 1999 1:16 PM Subject: NLA Discussion: Teenagers in ABE > >Hello, Sally. > >I work in the state of Georgia's Office of Adult Literacy in >Atlanta, and I handle a lot of the statistical data concerning adult >education programs. Across the state, 16-18 year old black and white males >are far more likely to attend adult ed programs than 16-18 year old black >and white females. 19-24 year old black and white males are slightly more >likely to attend adult ed programs than 19-24 year old black and white >females. After age 25, black and white females are far more likely to >attend adult ed than black and white males, and this continues right past >age 60. > >I don't have any evidence to explain this difference, but I suspect that >it's primarily cultural. For example, among Asians, females are more likely >to attend adult ed at all age levels except 60 and over, where males and >females are equally represented. Among Hispanics, males are more likely to >attend adult ed up to age 45, after which females are more likely to attend. >I can't say precisely how different cultures or subcultures might account >for the differences, but it seems clear that there are sex-based >circumstances and expectations that influence who drops out of high school >and who attends adult ed programs. > >Do other states or regions experience similar patterns of attendance based >on age, race, and sex? And does anyone have a theory that might explain the >differences? > >Preston Coleman, Ph.D. >Georgia Dept. of Technical and Adult Education >1800 Century Place, N.E., Suite 400 >Atlanta, GA 30345-4304 >404-679-5234 >pcoleman at dtae.org > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sally McIntosh [SMTP:grandeur at corinthian.net] >> Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 1999 7:50 AM >> To: nla at world.std.com >> Subject: NLA Discussion: Teenagers in ABE >> >> >> I find the majority of the teens who come into my program are truthfully >> seeking a continuation of their education. Many had some discipline >> problems in high school, but feel the circumstances were out of their >> control. The remainder are "good" students who cannot work in the >> disruptive environment of the present day high school. For the most part, >> these youth learn quickly, and will work for 4 hours straight without a >> break, very much in the same manner as their older adult ed classmates. >> Of >> course, if you are the kind of instructor who needs a quiet classroom, >> then >> these young people will add some noise. My classes have a consistent 60% >> under 21 ratio to the 40% over 21 age. The classes are all day, five days >> per week. By the way, I'd like to ask about the difference in the sexes >> in >> classes. Almost all youth are male, with a few female who try half >> heartedly. I have a few theories, but no hard research on the social >> pressures and economic issues that cause this imbalance. I teach full >> time >> in a small, rural, economically depressed county in Georgia. >> Sally McIntosh >> Marshallville (Macon County) Georgia >> > From sgabb412 at hotmail.com Wed Nov 10 10:16:52 1999 From: sgabb412 at hotmail.com (Sally Gabb) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 07:16:52 PST Subject: NLA Discussion: What is the Right Program Size? Message-ID: <199911101731.MAA07380@europe.std.com> To all: class size is clearly an issue of resource distribution! As practitioners we struggle to provide learner centered participatory quality educational experiences - not a record of seat time. When the nation/states/communities are ready to recognize the dynamic contribution of quality adult education to our social and economic process, we may see the support that enables reasonable class size investment. Question: is our country ready for a population who can fully participate in our 'democratic' process? Is this in the interest of 'powers that be'? Just a few musings... Sally Gabb >From: Janet Isserlis >Reply-To: nla at europe.std.com >To: nla at world.std.com >Subject: NLA Discussion: What is the Right Program Size? >Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 08:33:48 -0500 > >I am very glad to see that Hal raises this question. I'd been thinking >yesterday that class size seemed to be more an issue than not, but was >wondering if I was missing the point. I've also seen programs fill classes >to keep administrators/funders happy . The result often seems to be [an >almost self-fulfilling prophesy] - some students get fed up and leave >because the classes are too big, and others get shuffled in from waiting >lists. > >I seem to recall some research indicating, at least in ESOL (and other?) >adult classes, that 12 - 15 is an ideal number. I'd very much like to see >us take up Hal's information and pool other resources to substantiate my >strong hunch and my learned experience that small classes -- within large >or small programs -- are part of what we're aiming for. Retention and >learning have to be connected to learners feeling a sense of community, >and/or being able to find the assistance they need in learning settings. > >Janet Isserlis > > >I think it's less a question of program size and more a problem of class > >size and class configuration, although these may be related. Based on a > >classroom observation study we are conducting, mixed instructional >levels, > >open enrollments and large class sizes are an anathema to quality > >instruction. Open enrollments result when programs feel the need to > >fill-up classes that have been reduced because of drop out. In smaller > >programs that don't have sufficient numbers of learners to group classes >by > >instructional levels, replacement leads to mixed levels as well as open > >enrollments. With new learners enrolling every week and mixed levels >that > >make it very difficult to gear instruction to all levels, it is difficult > >for a class to develop into a healthy learning community. In classes >with > >over 10 learners, it is even more difficult. It may be that dropout >breeds > >mixed levels and open enrollemnts, which in turn, promotes dropout... a > >vicious circle. > > > >Hal Beder > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From AndresM at epcc.edu Wed Nov 10 12:47:15 1999 From: AndresM at epcc.edu (Andres Muro) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 10:47:15 -0700 Subject: NLA Discussion: Teenagers in ABE Message-ID: <199911110434.XAA27176@europe.std.com> Rich: I am glad that you bring this up. African Americans have very low educational attainments compared to other ethnic groups. Socio-cultural background and socio-economic conditions have an impact on educational attainment, and sociocultural understanding of potential participants also has a tremendous impact on success. Yet, when talking about adult literacy we rarely focus on these facts to explore ways to improve adult ed. Yet, researchers continue to find that considering these factors is not only important but essential in improving education in this country. A while back I was a reader of literacy grant proposals . This competition found universities asking for monies to conduct research on the state of adult literacy. The proposals made almost no reference to the multiple research on sociology and anthropology that shows the impact of economy and culture on educational attainment, nor anyone proposed to conduct research on this. Furthermore, most researchers were white. This is one of the first times that I see the word "African American" in this listserve. Andres >>> 11/09 11:12 pm >>> I have no hard statistics, but I can say that I rarely see African-American or white men sign up for adult ed programs unless it's a mandatory shelter program, classes related to drug recovery issues, or a program that is seen as leading directly to a job. When I talk to men on the street, trying to recruit, I get the same response - 'I'm too old for education." I get this from men who are 25, 35, 45, and up. The bigger issue being ignored in this discussion is why education isn't valued in and of itself. And along with that, why is there little real discussion among adult educators as to the 'purpose' of education. Maybe men aren't coming to our classes because we haven't defined this 'purpose' in any meaningful way. Are programs spending so much time chasing grant money, and adapting their programs to fulfill the needs of funders, that they are no longer capable of defining the value of education? Rich Krawiec -----Original Message----- From: Coleman, Preston To: nla at world.std.com Date: Tuesday, November 09, 1999 1:16 PM Subject: NLA Discussion: Teenagers in ABE > >Hello, Sally. > >I work in the state of Georgia's Office of Adult Literacy in >Atlanta, and I handle a lot of the statistical data concerning adult >education programs. Across the state, 16-18 year old black and white males >are far more likely to attend adult ed programs than 16-18 year old black >and white females. 19-24 year old black and white males are slightly more >likely to attend adult ed programs than 19-24 year old black and white >females. After age 25, black and white females are far more likely to >attend adult ed than black and white males, and this continues right past >age 60. > >I don't have any evidence to explain this difference, but I suspect that >it's primarily cultural. For example, among Asians, females are more likely >to attend adult ed at all age levels except 60 and over, where males and >females are equally represented. Among Hispanics, males are more likely to >attend adult ed up to age 45, after which females are more likely to attend. >I can't say precisely how different cultures or subcultures might account >for the differences, but it seems clear that there are sex-based >circumstances and expectations that influence who drops out of high school >and who attends adult ed programs. > >Do other states or regions experience similar patterns of attendance based >on age, race, and sex? And does anyone have a theory that might explain the >differences? > >Preston Coleman, Ph.D. >Georgia Dept. of Technical and Adult Education >1800 Century Place, N.E., Suite 400 >Atlanta, GA 30345-4304 >404-679-5234 >pcoleman at dtae.org > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sally McIntosh [SMTP:grandeur at corinthian.net] >> Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 1999 7:50 AM >> To: nla at world.std.com >> Subject: NLA Discussion: Teenagers in ABE >> >> >> I find the majority of the teens who come into my program are truthfully >> seeking a continuation of their education. Many had some discipline >> problems in high school, but feel the circumstances were out of their >> control. The remainder are "good" students who cannot work in the >> disruptive environment of the present day high school. For the most part, >> these youth learn quickly, and will work for 4 hours straight without a >> break, very much in the same manner as their older adult ed classmates. >> Of >> course, if you are the kind of instructor who needs a quiet classroom, >> then >> these young people will add some noise. My classes have a consistent 60% >> under 21 ratio to the 40% over 21 age. The classes are all day, five days >> per week. By the way, I'd like to ask about the difference in the sexes >> in >> classes. Almost all youth are male, with a few female who try half >> heartedly. I have a few theories, but no hard research on the social >> pressures and economic issues that cause this imbalance. I teach full >> time >> in a small, rural, economically depressed county in Georgia. >> Sally McIntosh >> Marshallville (Macon County) Georgia >> > From AndresM at epcc.edu Wed Nov 10 12:28:22 1999 From: AndresM at epcc.edu (Andres Muro) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 10:28:22 -0700 Subject: NLA Discussion: Teenagers in ABE Message-ID: <199911110438.XAA27695@europe.std.com> Hal, et al: I wonder if examining Quigley's work on resistance is appropriate here, and may be look at the work of Trueba, Gaytan, Ogbu, DeVos et al. If I understand it correctly, and from the previous posts, the reason many people drop out of K-12 are dispositional. That is, they strongly believe in learning and education, however, the traditional educational environment doesn't favor them. This is not only true for teenagers that drop out, but for adults returning to class after a long period of time. It seems that teenagers and a lot of adults have the same disposition towards traditional educational environments. They find them too rigid and often offensive towards their experiences, values, cultures or traditions. >From this perspective, teenagers and adults do belong in the same environment. Furthermore, when education becomes rigid and boring, teenagers act up, and adults remain quiet. That does not necessarily mean that adults are learning. It simply means that they are not acting up. The issue is quite clear to me. I think that instruction needs to become rich and meaningful to participants and then everyone will benefit. In our program we have students ages 18 to 80 sharing the same spaces. We have a lot of HS dropouts and they don't act up. They are really committed to learning. I think that the interaction between teenagers and adults enriches the classrooms. I also think that classes with mixed levels can also be very enriching and productive. Often, these sorts of environments fail, not because the environments are not conducive to learning, but because the instructors do not have the expertise to handle this type of environment. What do you all think? Andres >>> Hal Beder 11/09 10:49 pm >>> >From what we have observed in our classroom dynamics study,having teenagers in the classroom can be a significant problem. It's not that they are teenagers, it is that they often exhibit the same beaviors that caused them to dropout in the first place. Incidence of class disruption were quite common in the classes we observed with teenagers and disruption was virtually non-existent in classes with all adults. Having teenagers in class places a burden on teachers who are already overburdened with mixed levels of instruction, open enrollments and large classes. Adult literacy may be functioning as the safety valve for states who are dropping out large numbers due to more stringent requirements. Shouldn't K_12 be meeting is own responsibility for education instead of making it our responsibility? Hal Beder At 03:12 PM 11/8/99 EST, you wrote: > >Several states have been fortunate to secure funding for out-of-school youth. >With alternative or out-of-school youth funding, special initiatives have >been created to reach the 16 - 21 year old age group. For sure, this age group >brings a unique set of needs that have to be addressed if the program is >to provide successful learning experiences. > >Combining "over 21" adults and youth in the same classrooms posed some problems > and resolved others. The positive result was that the "older" adult had a >calming effect on the youngert students. > >Dr. Fran Tracy-Mumford >State Director of Adult Education, DE >302.739.3743 >http://ftracy-mumf at state.de.us >---------- Original Text ---------- > >From: , on 11/8/99 1:58 PM: > > >As a former high school principal, I have to bite at this one. The problem >is indeed a lack of programs for teens who won't or can't be helped in the >high school but who are not well served in an adult ed classroom either. > >Let me offer this story: One afternoon a gentleman came into our office, >located within walking distance of the adult ed center, and specifically >requested enrollment in a GED preparation class, which we don't offer. He >had been studying in Tennessee, knew his own needs, and wanted to continue >where he left off. We enthusiastically and cordially referred him to the >adult ed center. An hour later, he came back. He had walked to the center, >took one look FROM THE OUTSIDE, and walked back to our office. > >We asked him what happened. His reply, and I pretty well quote, was this: >"I'm not interested in going to a school where teenagers are hanging outside >the doors playing their boom boxes". > >Some adult ed centers have been so flooded with teens aged 16-19 that older >learners are turning away. One of the reasons for this is the failure of >the high school system and the lack of an alternative. As a principal, I'm >sorry to say I actually had the birthdays of certain students written on my >calendar. When they turned 17, mandatory attendance regulations no longer >applied to them. I would call these select few into my office, hopefully >with their parents, and strongly suggest adult ed. Usually I was successful >in frankly, getting rid of disruptive, frustrated, sometimes criminally >delinquent troublemakers in this way. I felt I had no other alternative, >other than expulsion, whereby the teen would be barred from attending any >district program, including adult ed. > >Most of these "pushouts" never show up at the adult ed program, but some do. >I talked once with an adult ed instructor who told me she was scratching her >head trying to figure out why she had to send learners "to the office" and >use her lunch hour to hold detention hall in an adult ed center. > >That is not to say all teens in adult ed programs represent this type of >population with many, many needs far beyond an education. But here in SC, >the legislature has invested, again, in an alternative school program now >being piloted. But guess what? Many alternative school programs for older >at-risk teens are being housed in adult ed centers, and the adult ed director >is assigned as the ultimate administrator. Oh, there is usually an >"assistant director" who does the on line work with the program, but the >administrative headaches of accountability and the out and out security >problems of troubled teens are in the lap of the adult ed director. > >High quality, highly specialized alternative programs for these teens are the >answer. But they are expensive. The bottom line is, the "system" will not >make a sustained investment in these young adults. So we see an erosion of >resources in the adult ed sector, already disgracefully under supported, and >more generally the continued phenomenon of young adults 16-25 running amok >all over the country. > >Does adult ed bear the moral responsibility to take on this cause? I think >not. But I predict the problem will fall to us by default. Debbie Yoho, >Columbia, SC > > Rutgers University Graduate School of Education 10 seminary Pl. New Brunswick, NJ 08901 732-932-7496 ext. 213 From PDRNRI at aol.com Wed Nov 10 20:07:35 1999 From: PDRNRI at aol.com (PDRNRI at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 20:07:35 EST Subject: NLA Discussion: What is the Right Program Size? Message-ID: <199911110446.XAA28832@europe.std.com> Sally, As I suggested in a post a few weeks ago, I've always held the suspicion that the "powers" aren't and haven't been interested in a thoroughly democratic process. This can be traced right back to Madison and Hamilton, who argued that the "masses" were incapable of rational governing, and that a Federal government would serve to make the impulsive, irrational, reactionary mass movements easier to contain (along, of course, with making interstate trade easier by means of common currency and uniform tariffs - sort of an 18th century NAFTA). David Hayes From grandeur at corinthian.net Wed Nov 10 19:11:53 1999 From: grandeur at corinthian.net (Sally McIntosh) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 19:11:53 -0500 Subject: NLA Discussion: Teenagers in ABE Message-ID: <199911110446.XAA28866@europe.std.com> Wow! Yes, Hal Beder, the K-12 segment of education needs to find a way to share some of its funding with the overworked adult education providers. We adult ed instructors are taking the youth that the "system" cannot or will not educate. The young people have dropped out in the 8th or 9th grade, and are desperately seeking help to acquire the skills local employers are demanding in potential employees. In discussions with all age of members of our classes, the basic reason for seeking a GED or improved reading skills still remains economic. We all seem motivated by the dream of more money, and to that end we will try higher education or other forms of training. If we are to aid these 16 to 21 year olds in achieving a marketable education, then we should be recieving some of the funds that were meant to underwrite said efforts. The alternative classroom is what we are offering those who come to us. This arrangement is often not provided by the K-12 program, but seems to be needed by more and more people. Sally McIntosh full time instructor Macon County, GA grandeur at corinthian.net From gdemetrion at juno.com Thu Nov 11 01:33:08 1999 From: gdemetrion at juno.com (GEORGE E. DEMETRION) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 22:33:08 -0800 Subject: NLA: Questions for Ron Pugsley Message-ID: <199911110459.XAA00812@europe.std.com> To: nla at world.std.com Subject: NLA Discussion: What is the Right Program Size? Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 07:16:52 PST Message-ID: <199911101731.MAA07380 at europe.std.com> To all: class size is clearly an issue of resource distribution! As practitioners we struggle to provide learner centered participatory quality educational experiences - not a record of seat time. When the nation/states/communities are ready to recognize the dynamic contribution of quality adult education to our social and economic process, we may see the support that enables reasonable class size investment. Question: is our country ready for a population who can fully participate in our 'democratic' process? Is this in the interest of 'powers that be'? Just a few musings... Sally Gabb ___________________________________________________________________ Sally: I won't belabor this much tonite, but your question: " is our country ready for a population who can fully participate in our 'democratic' process? Is this in the interest of 'powers that be'?" is one that more than a few of us have been attempting to explore with considerable seriousness for some time now on this list. This would be a good first question to pose for Ron Pugsley. A related question is the following: 1. If, according to the NALS statistics, over 90 million adults experience some significant deficiency in meeting the basic print demands of our society (not necesarily my assumption) and if all the ABE and literacy programs combine provide services to about 10% of that population, and of that 10% there is, say, a 50% drop out rate during the first year (Quigley puts that at 74%), then how important of an issue is adult literacy from a policy perspective? Another related question: 2. Does significant low level literacy meet the functional needs of society to stabilize the status quo, including the current distribution of power, wealth, and social standing? Another question (unrelated, except indirectly) 3. To what extent does government policy on literacy/adult basic education need to be responsive to the most compelling insights of our best researchers, theorists and practititioners? In other terms, should the insights from the field drive policy or should policy mandates shape the field even if our best field insights clearly demonstrate the inappropriateness of policy? Also 4. What is your position on Juliet Merrifield's argument that the various constituents of adult literacy education/ABE need to be mutually accountable to each other and that policy needs to be negotiated among the constituents through uncoerced and, in effect, "equal access" discourse? And following that, do you view the WIA and NRS as top-down mandates or policy that has emerged through negotiation among the wide consitituency that comprise adult literacy/ABE, or perhaps some combination, thereof? Finally, would you comment on these remarks: The inherent problem with holding local programs directly accountable under the NRS system is that local programs cannot set their own parameters or measures of success. What difference does a learners' Bill of Rights mean, if the only "core" measures of success are: got a job advanced a level got a GED The inherent problem with the NRS is that it doesn't include or measure the basic foundations of adult education; ie: a learner centered approach that meets the needs of the student. Gloria Gillette 11/02/99 14:25:46 you wrote: >I'd like to know more about Rhode Island's learners' Bill of Rights. I'm >thinking if all states had this, learners would have recourse if the NRS >does indeed infringe on the right to learn freely. What a revolution we >would have if adult learners had a way to hold programs directly accountable >to themselves! I think the problem will lie with the implementation of NRS >at the local level, however. I think the legislation itself is inherently >neither good nor bad. Comments? > >Debbie Yoho > There are other questions and much to say (including a parable I would like to tell if I can figure out how to construct it), but this is a start. Thank you Ron, for joining our discussion. Here's hoping for excellent participation. George Demetrion LVA-CT River East GDemetrion at juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. From rkrawiec at mindspring.com Thu Nov 11 10:34:44 1999 From: rkrawiec at mindspring.com (rkrawiec at mindspring.com) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 10:34:44 -0500 Subject: NLA Discussion: voc training the sole purpose of adult ed? Message-ID: <199911111919.OAA29634@europe.std.com> This language is part of the problem, because it reflects what we're really thinking. Education based on developing skills 'employers demand'...'we are all motivated by money'...a 'marketable education'. Is voc training the sole purpose of adult 'education'? Should adult ed exist only to serve the needs of capitalists? Are we motivated solely by money? Socrates said the purpose of education is to produce dangerous citizens. Maybe we need to think hard about the purpose of adult ed Rich -----Original Message----- From: Sally McIntosh To: nla at world.std.com Date: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 11:46 PM Subject: NLA Discussion: Teenagers in ABE > >Wow! Yes, Hal Beder, the K-12 segment of education needs to find a way to >share some of its funding with the overworked adult education providers. We >adult ed instructors are taking the youth that the "system" cannot or will >not educate. The young people have dropped out in the 8th or 9th grade, and >are desperately seeking help to acquire the skills local employers are >demanding in potential employees. In discussions with all age of members of >our classes, the basic reason for seeking a GED or improved reading skills >still remains economic. We all seem motivated by the dream of more money, >and to that end we will try higher education or other forms of training. If >we are to aid these 16 to 21 year olds in achieving a marketable education, >then we should be recieving some of the funds that were meant to underwrite >said efforts. > >The alternative classroom is what we are offering those who come to us. >This arrangement is often not provided by the K-12 program, but seems to be >needed by more and more people. > >Sally McIntosh >full time instructor >Macon County, GA >grandeur at corinthian.net > > From cbking2 at flash.net Thu Nov 11 12:43:48 1999 From: cbking2 at flash.net (cbking2) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 11:43:48 -0600 Subject: NLA: Questions for Ron Pugsley--Education as Civilization Message-ID: <199911111929.OAA01753@europe.std.com> To all:, in response to the following quote from George D.: "If, according to the NALS statistics, over 90 million adults experience some significant deficiency in meeting the basic print demands of our society (not necesarily my assumption) and if all the ABE and literacy programs combine provide services to about 10% of that population, and of that 10% there is, say, a 50% drop out rate during the first year (Quigley puts that at 74%), then how important of an issue is adult literacy from a policy perspective?" If these statistics are true, among the other insights we can draw from them is this: Not only are our policy-makers woefully ignorant of the intimate relationship between general education and the civilizing factors that are crucial to a developing democratic culture, but so are much of our adult population. But of course, what it means to be uneducated is, in part, to not understand one's own potential, and therefore not be able to fulfill it. So the burden of responsibility for the longer vision falls not on the uneducated adult, but to the policy-makers? Part of the short vision of many uneducated and economically deprived adults is the view that "Having more money is ALL I need to have a good life." This is a half-truth. True, because we need money and an occupation to survive. False because "bread" is not ALL we need (this is hardly a new idea); and more importantly, money is not all a democratic culture needs from its citizens to survive in a civilized form. But some policy-makers and teachers (as evident on a recent post) have totally bought into the shorter vision that jobs and money is all we need to offer our adult citizens in place of education. We are short-changing them. Who, I ask, will carry the civilizing vision if those in power don't? (And by the way, "Federal Government" means shared powers. Madison et al were not afraid of "the masses." They were afraid of UNEDUCATED masses, and rightly so. They were struggling against elitism at the same time they were rightly wary of the dangers of ignorant leadership--the blind leading the blind, or visionless leaders leading ignorant people? They KNEW civilization depended on education for all? Who is the enemy here?) If the above has any truth to it, then it points to three issues to bring to Ron Pugsley's desk: 1. What are we doing to RE-EDUCATE our culture about the importance of LIFE-LONG education for each of us? One post here stated that some adult males after 20 think it is too late to educate themselves? Do you think they MIGHT be mistaken? and that this pervasive fallacy, along with the incredibly stupid idea that we can "finish" our education, needs to be openly addressed by our Education Department? The inalienable rights of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" are no cliche', and are not unrelated here. If "happiness" means "a good life," and a good life means to discover, understand, and pursue one's own potential, then a continued general education is where living minds and hearts go to open up our potential and "pursue happiness." Literacy is the first door to this "liberty." It's not a gift of government. It's a MANDATE issued from our Constitution. 2. If the statistics are true, what is being done to support research on "recruitment," or freeing adults of the fears inherent in change? or providing community "bridges" to education for adults who need, and may want, to improve themselves? If the need is there, and it obviously IS, why aren't we focusing on IT, and helping uneducated adults become aware of it, rather than trying to collapse programs together to save money, or merely focusing on short-term "jobs," or worrying obsessively about accountability issues at the expense of everything else important? With those statistics, we should be looking to EXPAND adult education, and create ways to make it amenable, attractive, and available, and cheap, to those who need it, but apparently do not know it. Shouldn't this issue be a TOP priority? For instance, on the issue of black citizens, according to Shelby Steele, many black people carry around the mistaken notion that to become educated is to become "oreo"--black on the outside and white on the inside. Some (certainly not all) cut themselves off from their own education in a distorted effort to remain true to themselves as an integrated black person. What is being done to "recruit" this part of our black citizens to know education as their OWN right, regardless of color, and in a way especially FOR blacks because of their history of oppression as a group on account of color? Another fear of some writers of democratic history is what is called "retribalization" of democratic cultures. This means a reversion to calcified group identities--like ethnicity, religions, even geographic areas--and a polarization of these groups WITHOUT CIVILIZING FACTORS to mediate those identities in a civilized, non-violent way. There is nothing inherently wrong with these group identities, and much to celebrate about them. However, retribalization means that our existence becomes tied to these groups negatively, in a way that OTHER people become a threat and therefore MUST be suppressed or even extinguished--"my group or NO group." Under this kind of mentality, there is NO mediation of tolerance, human rights for ANYONE, equality under the law FOR ANYONE, freedom of speech, religion, etc., etc. The point for this discussion is this: Though we have civilizing factors written in our laws and at the basis of our institutions, NONE of this matters if the PEOPLE in the culture "lost their heads" and drift unceasingly towards a mentality of retribalization. This is what we get in EVERY school setting--CIVILIZED. WITHOUT EDUCATION AS A BROAD "HIT" ON CIVILIZING PEOPLE, RETRIBALIZATION IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN. I suggest this is what ACTUALLY IS happening. The statistics on adult education show it, and the lack of vision on the part of policy makers shows it. We are in the midst of this drift. 3. What is the difference between government patriarchy, and good leadership in a civilized culture? Catherine King > -----Original Message----- > From: nla-approval at world.std.com [mailto:nla-approval at world.std.com]On > Behalf Of GEORGE E. DEMETRION > Sent: Thursday, November 11, 1999 12:33 AM > To: nla at world.std.com > Subject: NLA: Questions for Ron Pugsley > > > > To: nla at world.std.com > Subject: NLA Discussion: What is the Right Program Size? > Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 07:16:52 PST > Message-ID: <199911101731.MAA07380 at europe.std.com> > > To all: class size is clearly an issue of resource distribution! As > practitioners we struggle to provide learner centered participatory > quality educational experiences - not a record of seat time. When the > nation/states/communities are ready to recognize the dynamic contribution > of quality adult education to our social and economic process, we may see > the support that enables reasonable class size investment. Question: is > our country ready for a population who can fully participate in our > 'democratic' process? Is this in the interest of 'powers that be'? Just > a few musings... > > Sally Gabb > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Sally: > > I won't belabor this much tonite, but your question: > " is our country ready for a population who can fully participate in our > 'democratic' process? Is this in the interest of 'powers that be'?" > is one that more than a few of us have been attempting to explore with > considerable seriousness for some time now on this list. > This would be a good first question to pose for Ron Pugsley. > A related question is the following: > 1. If, according to the NALS statistics, over 90 million adults > experience some significant deficiency in meeting the basic print demands > of our society (not necesarily my assumption) and if all the ABE and > literacy programs combine provide services to about 10% of that > population, and of that 10% there is, say, a 50% drop out rate during the > first year (Quigley puts that at 74%), then how important of an issue is > adult literacy from a policy perspective? > > Another related question: > > 2. Does significant low level literacy meet the functional needs of > society to stabilize the status quo, including the current distribution > of power, wealth, and social standing? > > Another question (unrelated, except indirectly) > > 3. To what extent does government policy on literacy/adult basic > education need to be responsive to the most compelling insights of our > best researchers, theorists and practititioners? In other terms, should > the insights from the field drive policy or should policy mandates shape > the field even if our best field insights clearly demonstrate the > inappropriateness of policy? > > Also > > 4. What is your position on Juliet Merrifield's argument that the > various constituents of adult literacy education/ABE need to be mutually > accountable to each other and that policy needs to be negotiated among > the constituents through uncoerced and, in effect, "equal access" > discourse? And following that, do you view the WIA and NRS as top-down > mandates or policy that has emerged through negotiation among the wide > consitituency that comprise adult literacy/ABE, or perhaps some > combination, thereof? > > Finally, would you comment on these remarks: > > The inherent problem with holding local programs directly accountable > under the NRS system is that local programs cannot set their own > parameters or measures of success. > > What difference does a learners' Bill of Rights mean, if the only > "core" measures of success are: > got a job > advanced a level > got a GED > The inherent problem with the NRS is that it doesn't include or measure > the basic foundations of adult education; ie: a learner centered approach > that meets the needs of the student. > > Gloria Gillette > > > 11/02/99 14:25:46 you wrote: > >I'd like to know more about Rhode Island's learners' Bill of > Rights. I'm > >thinking if all states had this, learners would have recourse if the NRS > >does indeed infringe on the right to learn freely. What a revolution we > >would have if adult learners had a way to hold programs directly > accountable > >to themselves! I think the problem will lie with the > implementation of NRS > >at the local level, however. I think the legislation itself is > inherently > >neither good nor bad. Comments? > > > >Debbie Yoho > > > > There are other questions and much to say (including a parable I would > like to tell if I can figure out how to construct it), but this is a > start. > > Thank you Ron, for joining our discussion. Here's hoping for excellent > participation. > > George Demetrion > LVA-CT River East > GDemetrion at juno.com > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > Get the Internet just the way you want it. > Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! > Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > > From DJRosen at world.std.com Thu Nov 11 14:00:00 1999 From: DJRosen at world.std.com (David J Rosen) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 14:00:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: NLA Info: Turning Skills to Profit through Workplace Ed. Message-ID: <199911111937.OAA03080@europe.std.com> NLA Colleagues, A recent study by The Conference Board, entitled "Turning Skills into Profit: Economic Benefits of Workplace Education Programs," answers the question: what is the return on investment to businesses which have workplace education programs? The Conference Board, a business-oriented research organization whose purpose is to "improve the business enterprise system and to enhance the contribution of business to society....interviewed employers, employees and union representatives from more than 40 private- and public-sector workplaces representing a cross-section of economic sectors throughout the United States." Interviewees were selected from 45 national workplace education projects funded between 1995-1998 by the U.S. Department of Education, through its National Workplace Literacy Program. This report, in no uncertain terms, lists the economic benefits to employers of Workplace Education Programs: improved quality of work, better team performance,improved capacity to cope with change in the workplace, improved capacity to use new technology, increased output of products and services, reduced time per task, reduced error rate, better health and safety record, reduced waste in production of goods and services, increased customer retention, and increased employee retention. If this is so, one must wonder, why hasn't the business community - and especially its various trade associations -- let Congress know that workplace education can help them, as well as their employees. Why was the business community silent at the sunset of the workplace education program? Those of you who believe that the public sector should be involved in helping business (especially small-to-medium-sized businesses) and organized labor to start workplace education programs, may wish to get copies of this report and me sure the business community in your state sees it. You may wish to ask business and labor to support the creation of a new federally-funded workplace education program, one which continues to require a partnership approach of business, labor and education providers, and which continues to require that large companies increasingly and ultimately pick up all of the program costs, but which recognizes that small businesses and labor-sponsored programs may need ongoing public support. The 15-page report, entitled "Turning Skills into Profit: Economic Benefits of Workplace Education Programs," is available from the Conference Board, 845 Third Avenue, New York, NY 10022. (And, for Rich, Catherine, and others who might wonder, I don't by any means believe that the sole --or most important -- purpose of adult education is vocational or work-related. I also don't believe that workplace education should be limited to workplace-related basic skills. I think there's room for a broad range of adult learner goals to be met through workplace education.) David J. Rosen From gdemetrion at juno.com Thu Nov 11 16:04:07 1999 From: gdemetrion at juno.com (gdemetrion at juno.com) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 16:04:07 -0500 Subject: NLA Info: Turning Skills to Profit through Workplace Ed. Message-ID: <199911120530.AAA07510@europe.std.com> I think there's room for a broad range of adult learner goals to be met through workplace education.) David: Agreed. There is also a broad range of adult learner goals to be meet by a wide variety of adult ed./adult literacy setting and it is the rich pluralism of the ABE/Literacy network that needs to be expanded and supported. George P.S. Also, Ron, can you give us a historical overview of how we moved from the National Literacy Act of 1991 to the Workforce Investment Act of 1998. Specifically, the details of the political process. ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. From cbking2 at flash.net Thu Nov 11 17:36:43 1999 From: cbking2 at flash.net (cbking2) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 16:36:43 -0600 Subject: NLA Info: Turning Skills to Profit through Workplace Ed. Message-ID: <199911120533.AAA07729@europe.std.com> Hi to all: And to reply to David's note below: "And, for Rich, Catherine, and others who might wonder, I don't by any means believe that the sole --or most important -- purpose of adult education is vocational or work-related. I also don't believe that workplace education should be limited to workplace-related basic skills. I think there's room for a broad range of adult learner goals to be met through workplace education.)" Nothing would be better than to know that business people are educated enough to know what benefits THEY ARE CONTRIBUTING to our larger "culture of civility" by providing workplace education for their workers. No one minds, certainly not me, that business "gets something back" for their efforts, as David has shown they obviously do. It's a good thing for all of us if they do. I know of some particular business people who have this vision of themselves, and they do what they do because they are not greedy, and are responsible people, participating in capitalism without sacrificing their principles for the "bottom line." What, pray tell, would we do without business? The only thing worse than a bad economy is no economy at all? Business as such is NOT the enemy, nor is a good economy, nor getting a job, nor making money, nor skills training, nor workplace education. What is the enemy is, as David seems to understand, a truncated view of what corporate business is about--as if it were a self-contained, headless, vacuum instead a part of an integral socio-political context--and to understand EVERYTHING in MERELY those truncated terms--like collapsing ABE at the structural level into Workplace Training? Or thinking nothing is happening in education except what we can "check the box" for. These are good examples of the cart driving the horse. In other terms, it is a gross oversight of what education or business is about. It is also social darwinism theories now uncritically filtered down into the common thought of our leaders. It's predatory and inhumane, and with a reductionist, mechanistic twist. Some people actually reflectively embrace this view. Fortunately, like our policy makers, not all businesspeople subscribe to such vacuous thought, nor need they. But when "education" thinks it's merely an arm of business, and uncritically takes on the business model completely by treating people like products, discarding the "unfit," we have a clue there is a problem of understanding what we are about. It would be better if "business" understood itself more like education really is. There is some movement in this direction--Steven Covey, for instance, in his "Seven Habits." More power to Workplace Education, not as a replacement, but as ONE context where education happens--like prison. Catherine King ---Original Message----- > From: nla-approval at world.std.com [mailto:nla-approval at world.std.com]On > Behalf Of David J Rosen > Sent: Thursday, November 11, 1999 1:00 PM > To: nla at world.std.com > Subject: NLA Info: Turning Skills to Profit through Workplace Ed. > > > > NLA Colleagues, > > A recent study by The Conference Board, entitled "Turning Skills into > Profit: Economic Benefits of Workplace Education Programs," answers > the question: what is the return on investment to businesses > which have workplace education programs? The Conference Board, a > business-oriented research organization whose purpose is to "improve the > business enterprise system and to enhance the contribution of business to > society....interviewed employers, employees and union > representatives from > more than 40 private- and public-sector workplaces representing a > cross-section of economic sectors throughout the United States." > Interviewees were selected from 45 national workplace education projects > funded between 1995-1998 by the U.S. Department of Education, through its > National Workplace Literacy Program. > > This report, in no uncertain terms, lists the economic benefits to > employers of Workplace Education Programs: improved quality of work, > better team performance,improved capacity to cope with change in the > workplace, improved capacity to use new technology, increased output > of products and services, reduced time per task, reduced error rate, > better health and safety record, reduced waste in production of goods > and services, increased customer retention, and increased > employee retention. > > If this is so, one must wonder, why hasn't the business community - and > especially its various trade associations -- let Congress know that > workplace education can help them, as well as their employees. > Why was the > business community silent at the sunset of the workplace education > program? > > Those of you who believe that the public sector should be involved in > helping business (especially small-to-medium-sized businesses) and > organized labor to start workplace education programs, may wish to get > copies of this report and me sure the business community in your state > sees it. You may wish to ask business and labor to support the creation > of a new federally-funded workplace education program, one which > continues > to require a partnership approach of business, labor and education > providers, and which continues to require that large companies > increasingly and ultimately pick up all of the program costs, but which > recognizes that small businesses and labor-sponsored programs may need > ongoing public support. > > The 15-page report, entitled "Turning Skills into Profit: Economic > Benefits of Workplace Education Programs," is available from the > Conference Board, 845 Third Avenue, New York, NY 10022. > > (And, for Rich, Catherine, and others who might wonder, I don't by any > means believe that the sole --or most important -- purpose of adult > education is vocational or work-related. I also don't believe that > workplace education should be limited to workplace-related basic skills. > I think there's room for a broad range of adult learner goals to be met > through workplace education.) > > David J. Rosen > > > > > From AndresM at epcc.edu Thu Nov 11 16:18:28 1999 From: AndresM at epcc.edu (Andres Muro) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 14:18:28 -0700 Subject: NLA Discussion: voc training the sole purpose of adult ed? Message-ID: <199911120536.AAA08275@europe.std.com> According to the Equipped for the Future project of NIFL and the Dpt of Ed, there are 4 important areas that adults need to be prepared for. The areas are: family, education, community and work. All of them are important. Also, students need to look at each of these areas comprehensively. There is a tendency by workforce literacy programs to simply teach students skills for specific low wage, no growth, jobs. There is vocation ed. monies in the department of ed. As I understand it, a vocation is an employment choice that fulfill us. My vocation is literacy. Just preparing people for low wage jobs because the local chamber of commerce is bringing them to your community to employ the poor minorities is not really vocational education. Andres >>> 11/11 12:18 pm >>> This language is part of the problem, because it reflects what we're really thinking. Education based on developing skills 'employers demand'...'we are all motivated by money'...a 'marketable education'. Is voc training the sole purpose of adult 'education'? Should adult ed exist only to serve the needs of capitalists? Are we motivated solely by money? Socrates said the purpose of education is to produce dangerous citizens. Maybe we need to think hard about the purpose of adult ed Rich -----Original Message----- From: Sally McIntosh To: nla at world.std.com Date: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 11:46 PM Subject: NLA Discussion: Teenagers in ABE > >Wow! Yes, Hal Beder, the K-12 segment of education needs to find a way to >share some of its funding with the overworked adult education providers. We >adult ed instructors are taking the youth that the "system" cannot or will >not educate. The young people have dropped out in the 8th or 9th grade, and >are desperately seeking help to acquire the skills local employers are >demanding in potential employees. In discussions with all age of members of >our classes, the basic reason for seeking a GED or improved reading skills >still remains economic. We all seem motivated by the dream of more money, >and to that end we will try higher education or other forms of training. If >we are to aid these 16 to 21 year olds in achieving a marketable education, >then we should be recieving some of the funds that were meant to underwrite >said efforts. > >The alternative classroom is what we are offering those who come to us. >This arrangement is often not provided by the K-12 program, but seems to be >needed by more and more people. > >Sally McIntosh >full time instructor >Macon County, GA >grandeur at corinthian.net > > From kathleenb at epcc.edu Thu Nov 11 16:29:50 1999 From: kathleenb at epcc.edu (Kathleen Bombach) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 14:29:50 -0700 Subject: NLA Discussion: Teenagers in ABE Message-ID: <199911120536.AAA08300@europe.std.com> When I had four simultaneous GED classes going on at one time, I used the opportunity to separate teenage and adult students. Why? The teenagers were recent school leavers and the adults left school up to thirty years before. The teenagers had also attended school for more years than the adults. The adults and teenagers were equally hard-working and determined, but I felt that the adults were facing issues of fear and insecurity with the environment that the teenagers were not, at least to the same extent. I didn't want classes where the youth would dominate the adults (faster to respond, likely to have more book knowledge than the adults, more familiar with schooling rituals). It succeeds for you because in one class you have a fairly even distribution of ages, so you may have only one teenager in a group of all ages. Whether or not to mix has to do with the totality of the schooling environment. Kathleen Bombach >>> "Andres Muro" 11/10 10:28 AM >>> Hal, et al: I wonder if examining Quigley's work on resistance is appropriate here, and may be look at the work of Trueba, Gaytan, Ogbu, DeVos et al. If I understand it correctly, and from the previous posts, the reason many people drop out of K-12 are dispositional. That is, they strongly believe in learning and education, however, the traditional educational environment doesn't favor them. This is not only true for teenagers that drop out, but for adults returning to class after a long period of time. It seems that teenagers and a lot of adults have the same disposition towards traditional educational environments. They find them too rigid and often offensive towards their experiences, values, cultures or traditions. >From this perspective, teenagers and adults do belong in the same environment. Furthermore, when education becomes rigid and boring, teenagers act up, and adults remain quiet. That does not necessarily mean that adults are learning. It simply means that they are not acting up. The issue is quite clear to me. I think that instruction needs to become rich and meaningful to participants and then everyone will benefit. In our program we have students ages 18 to 80 sharing the same spaces. We have a lot of HS dropouts and they don't act up. They are really committed to learning. I think that the interaction between teenagers and adults enriches the classrooms. I also think that classes with mixed levels can also be very enriching and productive. Often, these sorts of environments fail, not because the environments are not conducive to learning, but because the instructors do not have the expertise to handle this type of environment. What do you all think? Andres >>> Hal Beder 11/09 10:49 pm >>> >From what we have observed in our classroom dynamics study,having teenagers in the classroom can be a significant problem. It's not that they are teenagers, it is that they often exhibit the same beaviors that caused them to dropout in the first place. Incidence of class disruption were quite common in the classes we observed with teenagers and disruption was virtually non-existent in classes with all adults. Having teenagers in class places a burden on teachers who are already overburdened with mixed levels of instruction, open enrollments and large classes. Adult literacy may be functioning as the safety valve for states who are dropping out large numbers due to more stringent requirements. Shouldn't K_12 be meeting is own responsibility for education instead of making it our responsibility? Hal Beder At 03:12 PM 11/8/99 EST, you wrote: > >Several states have been fortunate to secure funding for out-of-school youth. >With alternative or out-of-school youth funding, special initiatives have >been created to reach the 16 - 21 year old age group. For sure, this age group >brings a unique set of needs that have to be addressed if the program is >to provide successful learning experiences. > >Combining "over 21" adults and youth in the same classrooms posed some problems > and resolved others. The positive result was that the "older" adult had a >calming effect on the youngert students. > >Dr. Fran Tracy-Mumford >State Director of Adult Education, DE >302.739.3743 >http://ftracy-mumf at state.de.us >---------- Original Text ---------- > >From: , on 11/8/99 1:58 PM: > > >As a former high school principal, I have to bite at this one. The problem >is indeed a lack of programs for teens who won't or can't be helped in the >high school but who are not well served in an adult ed classroom either. > >Let me offer this story: One afternoon a gentleman came into our office, >located within walking distance of the adult ed center, and specifically >requested enrollment in a GED preparation class, which we don't offer. He >had been studying in Tennessee, knew his own needs, and wanted to continue >where he left off. We enthusiastically and cordially referred him to the >adult ed center. An hour later, he came back. He had walked to the center, >took one look FROM THE OUTSIDE, and walked back to our office. > >We asked him what happened. His reply, and I pretty well quote, was this: >"I'm not interested in going to a school where teenagers are hanging outside >the doors playing their boom boxes". > >Some adult ed centers have been so flooded with teens aged 16-19 that older >learners are turning away. One of the reasons for this is the failure of >the high school system and the lack of an alternative. As a principal, I'm >sorry to say I actually had the birthdays of certain students written on my >calendar. When they turned 17, mandatory attendance regulations no longer >applied to them. I would call these select few into my office, hopefully >with their parents, and strongly suggest adult ed. Usually I was successful >in frankly, getting rid of disruptive, frustrated, sometimes criminally >delinquent troublemakers in this way. I felt I had no other alternative, >other than expulsion, whereby the teen would be barred from attending any >district program, including adult ed. > >Most of these "pushouts" never show up at the adult ed program, but some do. >I talked once with an adult ed instructor who told me she was scratching her >head trying to figure out why she had to send learners "to the office" and >use her lunch hour to hold detention hall in an adult ed center. > >That is not to say all teens in adult ed programs represent this type of >population with many, many needs far beyond an education. But here in SC, >the legislature has invested, again, in an alternative school program now >being piloted. But guess what? Many alternative school programs for older >at-risk teens are being housed in adult ed centers, and the adult ed director >is assigned as the ultimate administrator. Oh, there is usually an >"assistant director" who does the on line work with the program, but the >administrative headaches of accountability and the out and out security >problems of troubled teens are in the lap of the adult ed director. > >High quality, highly specialized alternative programs for these teens are the >answer. But they are expensive. The bottom line is, the "system" will not >make a sustained investment in these young adults. So we see an erosion of >resources in the adult ed sector, already disgracefully under supported, and >more generally the continued phenomenon of young adults 16-25 running amok >all over the country. > >Does adult ed bear the moral responsibility to take on this cause? I think >not. But I predict the problem will fall to us by default. Debbie Yoho, >Columbia, SC > > Rutgers University Graduate School of Education 10 seminary Pl. New Brunswick, NJ 08901 732-932-7496 ext. 213 From AndresM at epcc.edu Thu Nov 11 17:26:03 1999 From: AndresM at epcc.edu (Andres Muro) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 15:26:03 -0700 Subject: NLA Info: Turning Skills to Profit through Workplace Ed. Message-ID: <199911120541.AAA08783@europe.std.com> David quotes from a report: "This report, in no uncertain terms, lists the economic benefits to employers of Workplace Education Programs: improved quality of work, better team performance, improved capacity to cope with change in the workplace, improved capacity to use new technology, increased output of products and services, reduced time per task, reduced error rate, better health and safety record, reduced waste in production of goods and services, increased customer retention, and increased employee retention." If this is the case, I am sure that the companies that are benefiting from higher productivity will share their gains with the workers. What troubles me is that a lot of the low skilled jobs have gone overseas and the present entry level jobs require higher skills. Yet, the present entry level jobs continue to pay low wages, and have become the new minimum wage jobs in the US. David writes: "Those of you who believe that the public sector should be involved in helping business"????? I am not sure that the role of the public sector is to help the private sector. Even though this is how our city mayor thinks. He has taken the art resources budget away from the city to give it to the private sector. He has also proposed to privatize the library. Another mayor a few years back wanted our library to charge an entry fee in order to keep homeless people away. The same mayor cut our parks and rec. budget to give monies to the private sector... Sorry for loosing it for a moment, but the little monies available in education should be used to enhance and enrich our communities, not to help the private sector. I have heard the trickle down argument. However, people get richer and monies never trickle down. Andres >>> David J Rosen 11/11 12:38 pm >>> NLA Colleagues, A recent study by The Conference Board, entitled "Turning Skills into Profit: Economic Benefits of Workplace Education Programs," answers the question: what is the return on investment to businesses which have workplace education programs? The Conference Board, a business-oriented research organization whose purpose is to "improve the business enterprise system and to enhance the contribution of business to society....interviewed employers, employees and union representatives from more than 40 private- and public-sector workplaces representing a cross-section of economic sectors throughout the United States." Interviewees were selected from 45 national workplace education projects funded between 1995-1998 by the U.S. Department of Education, through its National Workplace Literacy Program. This report, in no uncertain terms, lists the economic benefits to employers of Workplace Education Programs: improved quality of work, better team performance,improved capacity to cope with change in the workplace, improved capacity to use new technology, increased output of products and services, reduced time per task, reduced error rate, better health and safety record, reduced waste in production of goods and services, increased customer retention, and increased employee retention. If this is so, one must wonder, why hasn't the business community - and especially its various trade associations -- let Congress know that workplace education can help them, as well as their employees. Why was the business community silent at the sunset of the workplace education program? Those of you who believe that the public sector should be involved in helping business (especially small-to-medium-sized businesses) and organized labor to start workplace education programs, may wish to get copies of this report and me sure the business community in your state sees it. You may wish to ask business and labor to support the creation of a new federally-funded workplace education program, one which continues to require a partnership approach of business, labor and education providers, and which continues to require that large companies increasingly and ultimately pick up all of the program costs, but which recognizes that small businesses and labor-sponsored programs may need ongoing public support. The 15-page report, entitled "Turning Skills into Profit: Economic Benefits of Workplace Education Programs," is available from the Conference Board, 845 Third Avenue, New York, NY 10022. (And, for Rich, Catherine, and others who might wonder, I don't by any means believe that the sole --or most important -- purpose of adult education is vocational or work-related. I also don't believe that workplace education should be limited to workplace-related basic skills. I think there's room for a broad range of adult learner goals to be met through workplace education.) David J. Rosen From AhedOfGame at aol.com Fri Nov 12 11:23:38 1999 From: AhedOfGame at aol.com (AhedOfGame at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 11:23:38 EST Subject: NLA Discussion: voc training the sole purpose of adult ed? Message-ID: <199911121741.MAA05149@europe.std.com> I would disagree with Andres' take on workplace literacy programs. I've been setting up such programs through California Literacy for the past six years. While the programs are usually targeted to lower wage workers, the majority of employers I've dealt with have only undertaken the programs because they needed their employees to be able to take on more than entry-level dead end jobs. They needed the employees to have higher technological skills, or to be able to grow within the company/organization, or to interact at higher skill levels. And while the bulk of the content in such a program may be job, company, or industry specific (after all, few companies operate with non-profit motives), we never forget that we're teaching adults with their own sets of priorities and interests. To get maximum "buy in" from the students, we have to demonstrate how content/skills will also benefit family, community, etc. Carolyn Kingsnorth Director, Workplace Learning Programs California Literacy AhedOfGame at aol.com From PDRNRI at aol.com Fri Nov 12 20:00:29 1999 From: PDRNRI at aol.com (PDRNRI at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 20:00:29 EST Subject: NLA Discussion: voc training the sole purpose of adult ed? Message-ID: <199911131005.FAA12636@europe.std.com> I think there is truth both in what carolyn is saying and what Andres is saying, but I'm not clear as to whether or not they're talking about the same thing. My experience here at the Institute for Labor Studies and Research agrees with Carolyn's experience of workplace ed. entirely- student's reasons for buying into a program are their own and are oten broader than or at least different from those of management. Enlightened management knows this and buys into it as well. What Andres seems to be referring to, though, is a different kind of workforce education - namely, training programs which function strictly to train workers job-specific skills that ready them for low wage, unfulfilling, dead end jobs. If my understanding of Andres' post is correct, this is an entirely different type of program. David Hayes From sgabb412 at hotmail.com Fri Nov 12 19:37:30 1999 From: sgabb412 at hotmail.com (Sally Gabb) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 16:37:30 PST Subject: NLA Discussion: What is the Right Program Size? Message-ID: <199911131007.FAA12688@europe.std.com> Thanks Dave, of course this is true - aren't we glad that they slipped up and allowed such words as 'life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness' into the canon - not to mention notions of equality..... We have both documents and a history of struggle towards just society to back us up. Despite Madison, Harrison, et al, the so called 'masses' have managed to succeed with women's right to vote, slavery's end, civil rights act, voting rights act, etc. This IS a policy dialogue -- just wanted to speak of 'class size' in terms of the REAL issues. Sal Sally Gabb >From: PDRNRI at aol.com >Reply-To: nla at europe.std.com >To: nla at world.std.com >Subject: NLA Discussion: What is the Right Program Size? >Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 20:07:35 EST > >Sally, > >As I suggested in a post a few weeks ago, I've always held the suspicion >that >the "powers" aren't and haven't been interested in a thoroughly democratic >process. This can be traced right back to Madison and Hamilton, who argued >that the "masses" were incapable of rational governing, and that a Federal >government would serve to make the impulsive, irrational, reactionary mass >movements easier to contain (along, of course, with making interstate trade >easier by means of common currency and uniform tariffs - sort of an 18th >century NAFTA). > >David Hayes > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From gdemetrion at juno.com Sat Nov 13 12:23:34 1999 From: gdemetrion at juno.com (GEORGE E. DEMETRION) Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 09:23:34 -0800 Subject: NLA Discussion: John Dewey's concept of Vocational Ed. Explored Message-ID: <199911132031.PAA07485@europe.std.com> On Thu, 11 Nov 1999 14:18:28 -0700 "Andres Muro" writes: >According to the Equipped for the Future project of NIFL and the Dpt >of Ed, there are 4 important areas that adults need to be prepared >for. The areas are: family, education, community and work. All of them >are important. Also, students need to look at each of these areas >comprehensively. There is a tendency by workforce literacy programs to >simply teach students skills for specific low wage, no growth, jobs. >There is vocation ed. monies in the department of ed. As I understand >it, a vocation is an employment choice that fulfill us. My vocation is >literacy. Just preparing people for low wage jobs because the local >chamber of commerce is bringing them to your community to employ the >poor minorities is not really vocational education. > >Andres Andres et. al. In his classic text, Democracy and Education (1916!) the social and educational philosopher John Dewey has an intriguing chapter (923) "Vocational Aspects of Education" which speaks to many of the issues raised in this thread. As expected, Dewey takes a broad view of vocation and one that integrates it with the rest of life. Here in part is what he says (I will largely resist commentary in this post): "A vocation means nothing but such a direction of life activities as renders them perceptibly significant to a person, because of the consequences they accomplish, and also useful to his [sic] associates" (p. 307) "Occupation is a concrete term for continuity. It includes the development of artistic capacity of any kind, of special scientific ability, of effective citizenship, as well as professional and business occupations, to say nothing of mechanical labor or engagement in gainful pursuits" (p. 307) In the first place, each individual has of necessity a variety of callings, in each of which he should be intelligently effective; and in the second place any one occupation loses its meaning and becomes a routine keeping busy at something in which it is isolated from other interests." (p. 307). "A Man's [there he goes again, but it was 1916] vocation as an artist is but the ephatically specialized phase of his diverse and variegated vocational activities, so his efficacy in it, in the humane sense of efficacy, is determined by its association with other callings" (p. 308). "An occupation is the only thing which balances the distinctive capacity of an individual with his social service. To find out what one is fitted to do and to secure an opportunity to do it is the key to happiness. Nothing is more tragic than failure to discover one's true business in life, or to find that one has drifted or been forced by circumstances into an uncongenial calling. A right occupation means simply that the aptitudes of the person are in adequate play, working with the minimum friction and the maximum freedom. With reference to other members of the community, this adequacy of action signifies, of course, that they are getting the best service that a person can render." (p. 308). "The dominant vocation of all human beings at all times is living--intellectual and moral growth" (p. 310) "In an autocratically managed society, it is often a conscious object to prevent the development of freedom and responsibilty; a few do the planning and ordering, the others follow directions and are deliberately confined to narrow and prescribed channels of endeavor. However much a scheme may injure to the prestige and profit of a class, it is evident that it limits the development of the subject class; hardens and confines the opportunities for learning through experiences of the master class, and in both ways hampers the life of the society as a whole" (pp. 310-311). "The problem is not that of making the schools an adjunct to manufacture and commerce, but of utilizing the factors of industry to make school life more active, more full of immediate meaning, more connected with out-of-school experience....Put in concrete terms, there is danger that vocational education will be interpreted in theory and practice as trade education; as a means of securing technical efficiency in specialized future pursuits." (p. 316) "The desired transformation is not difficult to define in a formal way.m It signifies a society in which every person will be occupied in something which makes the lives of others better worth living, and which accordingly makes the ties which bind people together more perceptible--which breaks down the barriers and distance before them. It denotes a state of affairs in which the interest of each is uncoerced and intelligent: based upon its congeniality to his own aptitudes. It goes without saying that we are far from such a social state; in a literal and quantitative sense, we may never arrive at it. But in principle, the quality of social changes already accomplished lies in this direction [I'm not sure what Dewey is referring to, but it could be Jane Addam's Hull House in Chicago]. There are now more ample resources resources for it now than ever there have been before [Dewey was a bit optimistic here on the eve of WWI]. No insuperable obstacles, given the intelligent will for its realization, stand in the way. (p. 316) And finally: "[A]n education which acknowledges the full intellectual and social meaning of a vocation would include instruction in the historical background of present conditions; training in science to give intelligence and initiative in dealing with material and agencies of production; and study of economics, civics, and politics to bring the future worker into touch with the problems of the day and the various methods for its improvement. Above all, it would train power of readaptation to changing conditions so that future workers would not become blindly subject to a fate imposed on them." (pp. 318-319) Because of the extensive quotes I will resist commentary at this time except to say I am not arguing for slavish adaptation of Dewey's ideas. That these quotes offer important insight for our times in our field and are worthy of consideration, would be, in my opinion, one gross understatement. Perhaps others would like to comment. While Dewey is sometimes a difficult writer to read, Democracy and Education is generally an accessible text, a thorough study of which, could significantly contribute to adult literacy/ABE theory, practice and research. This field could do worse than engage Dewey's work as a dialogue partner in a thoughtful exploration of the issues that effect our work. George Demetrion LVA-CT River east GDemetrion at juno.com From JCretella at aol.com Sat Nov 13 10:34:58 1999 From: JCretella at aol.com (JCretella at aol.com) Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 10:34:58 EST Subject: NLA Discussion: voc training the sole purpose of adult ed? Message-ID: <199911132033.PAA07560@europe.std.com> Dave..Yours is a good analysis of the two point of view on workplace education. I take issue, however, with the connection you and others make in referring to "low paying, unfullfilling, dead-end jobs". Just because a job is low paying does not mean it is unfullfilling or a dead-end job to the person who holds it...Many of the adult learners who come into our center have such jobs and take great pride in them.I happen to believe that all work is worthwhile and we should not promote such a negative concept of work...as many adult are underemployed, they know that and aspire to something better...They know that underemployment is connected with under-education. Many view their job, regardless of the pay scale, as a stepping stone...When we label jobs as unfullfilling or "dead end" we just add to a sense of poor self-esteem. Every job is important to someone..Just a point of view... JCretella From PDRNRI at aol.com Sat Nov 13 20:42:52 1999 From: PDRNRI at aol.com (PDRNRI at aol.com) Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 20:42:52 EST Subject: NLA Discussion: voc training the sole purpose of adult ed? Message-ID: <199911140230.VAA11199@europe.std.com> JCretella - Of course, you're absolutely right. It would be foolish and completely insensitive to suggest that all low paying jobs are dead end, and downright narrow and insulting of me to suggest that they're all unfulfilling. It wasn't my intent to imply that all jobs voc ed trains people for fit these definitions, but in reviewing my post, that certainly seems to sound like what I was trying to say. Thanks for calling me on it - I'll be much more careful to re-read my posts before punching the send key in the future. David Hayes From tsticht at aznet.net Sun Nov 14 12:52:37 1999 From: tsticht at aznet.net (Thomas Sticht) Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 09:52:37 -0800 Subject: NLA Discussion: Levels Metaphor Message-ID: <199911141806.NAA00331@europe.std.com> David: The following research note may be of interest to NLA list members. Tom Sticht Research Note 11/14/99 Accountability in Adult Literacy Education I: The Metaphor of "Levels" Thomas G. Sticht Applied Behavioral & Cognitive Sciences, Inc. The Workforce Investment Act 0f 1998, Title II: The Adult Education and Family Literacy Act requires "core indicators" of performance by federally funded literacy programs. The Act requires that levels of performance for each indicator be established, and the levels "?be expressed in an objective, quantifiable, and measureable form; and ?show the progress of the eligible agency toward continuously improving in performance." The metaphor of "levels" is pervasive in all education, including adult literacy education. We speak of children or adults who read "at the fourth, or fifth, or sixth, etc. grade levels," as though these "levels" are quantities of "reading" that stack up on one another reaching higher and higher plains. Most recently, the National and International Adult Literacy Surveys (NALS/IALS) have promoted the use of five "levels" of "literacy" for describing the literacy abilities of adults in the United States and eleven other nations on Prose, Document and Quantitative scales. In the scheme of the NALS/IALS, adults were assigned to a given level, and it was strongly implied that the person could not perform tasks above the assigned level. However, the fact was that on the NALS Document scale, a person who scored at the average for literacy level 1 could perform almost half the tasks at level 2, a quarter of the tasks at level 3, one out of five at level 4 and even one in six at the highest level, Level 5. Similar findings of adults being able to perform significant percentages of literacy tasks above their assigned level holds for all three literacy scales in the NALS/IALS. For given adults, then, they might not take well to the idea that their literacy was fixed at some static, lower "level." Rather, they might think of themselves as quite capable given that they can sometimes perform very difficult tasks well above their assigned level. Perhaps that is one of the reasons two-thirds of the adults at Level 1 of the NALS said they read well or very well, and why millions and millions have not come running for help to our adult literacy programs. In trying to use the NALS/IALS levels to evaluate advancement in literacy, a program might actually increase people's skills within a level, but not enough to move the person up to the next level (a level has about 50 scale points in it). So considerable horizontal (within a level) growth might not show up as any vertical growth (up to a new level). It is also conceivable that some adults might not improve at all in the numbers and "levels" of tasks that can be performed, but that they might become more efficient in performing the tasks they can already do, but too slowly. Such an increase in efficiency is also likely to escape notice using the "levels" metaphor as a basis for judging advancement. Research by colleagues and myself some 25 years ago showed that adults with specialized knowledge in the areas of automobile and shop information who read at the "fifth grade level" on a standardized reading test could none the less perform on an automobile mechanics job-related reading task test as though they had reading skills one to two grades higher in general literacy [Sticht, T. G. (1975) Reading for working: a functional literacy anthology. Alexandria, VA: Human Resources Research Organization, pp. 43-45]. Thus, while their "general" literacy "level" was fifth grade, their "job-related literacy" "level" was sixth or seventh grade. The military services use for selection and job assignment purposes a ten part test called the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery (ASVAB) that provides both general verbal and mathematics knowledge measures, and several other knowledge tests such as automotive and shop information, general science, electricity, etc. These tests are used to produce profiles of knowledge and skills such that a person low in verbal ability might still be accepted for service if he or she has higher knowledge in one or more of the special knowledge domains. This is an example of the use of both "levels" and "profiles" in combination to characterize several different aspects of peoples' literacy (all tests in the ASVAB are written tests). These sorts of data raise the question of just how literacy ability should be represented. Is it well represented as "levels," like an onion with a core and successive layers of growth out to some current "level?" Or perhaps as "levels" in geological strata? Or would it be more useful to think in terms of networks of specialized domains of knowledge interrelated by the use of common vocabulary words (and , but ,the, over, etc.) and a limited set of syntactical rules for selecting and sequencing parts of words into new words (e.g., test, tested) or words into sentences. In this type of representation, growth of any amount in any direction in the knowledge network would count as improvement for accountability purposes. All knowledge that a person possesses or develops could accrue to the person's "accountability account" (perhaps in a portfolio). Presently, the dominant metaphor seems to encourage the "banking" metaphor criticized by Paulo Freire. The adult's head is considered as a bucket and, using our dipsticks (tests) we determine that the head is filled, say, to the 3rd grade level. The educator's job then is to pour in more cognitive "fluid" to raise the level up to the 9th grade and eventually the GED level as measured by our cognitive dipsticks. At the very least, it seems to me that some attention should be given to the pervasive use of the "levels" metaphor in attempts to characterize adults' literacy abilities. Much more attention to such fundamental matters should be given before anyone espouses the use of our present stock of "literacy dipsticks" to hold programs and their learners accountable for "continuous improvements" in learning. From PDRNRI at aol.com Sun Nov 14 12:54:14 1999 From: PDRNRI at aol.com (PDRNRI at aol.com) Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 12:54:14 EST Subject: NLA Discussion: The Powers that Be Message-ID: <199911142334.SAA05890@europe.std.com> Let me begin this post by saying that as a relative newcomer to the field, especially to administrative work and policy issues, this listserv has done a wonderful job of educating me to the issues, needs, and directions in adult ed policy-making. I'm looking forward especially to the exchange with Ron Pugsley, and have particularly enjoyed reading and reflecting upon Catherine King's series of posts concerning facilitation of participation in the democratic process. I think as the time for this sharing of questions and views with Mr. Pugsley approaches, it is especially important to be thinking in this context. I'd like to comment briefly on a couple of recent posts by Sally Gabb, address the issue of providing a historical context for our struggle for adequate support for an adult education which serves to strengthen the democratic process, add an anecdote from my own class' experience, and close with some questions I'd like help with. Sally pointed out in her post last week that class size was an issue of resource distribution. She asked if, in our opinions, the "powers that be" were ready for the people we serve to become full participants in the "democratic" (her quotes) process. I submitted that it was my opinion that they are not, no more than they have ever been. I've often wondered if my perspective is too naive, too cynical, perhaps less informed than it should be. Maybe some of you could help me in reflecting further. I should start by making certain my interpretation of the term "powers that be" is understood. It's a vague term, obviously. I welcome the input of anyone who wants to develop or refute this definition. I define "powers that be" not as government or government officials, but as the small minority of Americans in whose hands a great percentage of our overall wealth lies - those who exert, through their contributions, hefty tax submissions, and other persuasive powers, a tremendous deal of influence over policy development at the federal level. I submit that the rights struggles Sally mentions (emancipation from slavery, women's suffrage, civil rights), as well as others (unionization) won by the people and (equal rights, draft resistance, etc.) not won by the people, have come often at the end of decades of struggle and considerable bloodshed - in large part because of the resistance to such infringements on the status quo by the "powers that be". Yes, it is certainly true that such struggles might not have been waged had it not been for the flexibility of the Constitution (in particular the Bill of Rights, which as I remember was vigorously resisted by many framers of the original document) which specifically protects the right to petition the government). I would argue, however that it is also reasonable to think that such drawn out, painful, violent struggles would not have been necessary in a truly inclusive democratic republic in which recognition of the dignity and worth of all humans was an operative concept, not a noble pursuit. I think it's critical that we frame our struggle for adequate funding and public support of adult education as a pursuit of human empowerment (not merely workforce enhancement) in this historical context. The original framers of the Constitution brilliantly created a document which allows for amendment. Much can be found, however, in the original text and context which suggests that their view of a democratic republic was not as inclusive as it might have been. Untaxed Native Americans were not counted as people, slaves were counted as three-fourths of a person, the voting public was limited to white, property-owning men, neither the Senate nor the Presidency were to be chosen by popular vote, and so on. Much was written in to secure the powers of property owners (as a means, I would assume, of courting their support of the document). >From that time forward, with few notable exceptions, the struggle for democratic recognition on the part of the economically disenfranchised has met with active resistance or inaction from the "powers that be" and the political establishment. When emancipation threatened the economic stability of southern plantations, blood was shed. When native nations stood in the way of the seizure of land and raw materials for agriculture and industry therein, blood was shed. When industrial-age workers - men, women and children - struggled to secure their safety in factories, where death and debilitating injury went unregulated and generally unpunished, blood was shed. When African Americans rose to assert their rights as equal citizens desiring equal economic opportunity, blood was shed. I would argue that this republic has long supported the interests of its most economically advantaged citizens over the disadvantaged. Yes, much progress toward a just society has been made. Yes, the most fundamental rights of the greater part of our citizenry has been secured as the power of the vote has been more widely granted. But none of these rights have come without struggle. None have come simply by virtue of the fact that they were just, or that they favored equality over oppression and exploitation. The struggle for which we as educators all work, the struggle for an open, more democratic process in which all people engage as enlightened participants, must continue in the face of the resistance of these "powers that be" whose aim appears to be (and to have been) the maintenance of a status quo which fosters the economic growth for a prosperous few at the expense of the health and well being of an increasingly economically unstable many. Most recently, in my own experience, I have watched the economic stability of the workers I serve and countless others like them erode at the hands of new initiatives in business which serve to weaken the labor market at its lowest wage levels. In our dislocated worker program here in RI, people whose factories have been bought and closed down by companies interested in securing tax write-offs at the expense of the emotional and economic well being of tens and hundreds of workers struggle to improve language and literacy skills in an effort to market themselves. They study alongside those whose jobs have been stripped by companies who seek to increase profit by contracting work to other nations where labor is cheaper and more readily exploited. Too often, a return to the workforce for my students means an agreement with a temporary employment agency - no security, no benefits. Usually, a return to work means a similar type of position as previously held, with reduced pay, with reduced benefits and plenty of overtime. Those who successfully go on to training programs often meet the same fate, as the jobs they train for do not exist in sufficient numbers to support large influxes of inexperienced workers. Recently, one of our classes (an English GED class for advanced ESOL learners) raised an angry voice against the emerging temporary worker market in Rhode Island. When I mentioned the existence of the United Workers' Committee, an organization run through Progreso Latino here in RI which has been working on pushing regulation at the legislative level, they impressed me with their forceful response - yes, they were very interested in being visited by a committee member, and yes, they would be quite ready to call and write their legislators in support of the committee's initiatives. Are the "powers that be" - those profiting at both ends of this rapidly growing business in which full-time, long term human labor is actually rented - ready for this? Moreover, are they ready for the checks and regulations against contracting work to overseas slave camps at the expense of our own working class which are bound to follow any successful effort to empower those workers as citizens? Catherine King was right, by the way - if I remember correctly, she long ago posted something along the lines of saying that we must struggle at all times against indoctrination of our students to our own socio-political concepts, even as we judge those concepts to represent the noble pursuit of democracy. The power to analyze and participate democratically must come from within. When I'm teaching, I struggle against this all the time! When students assert that they have no voice, when they admit that they are afraid to try to vote because they feel uninformed and lacking in the reading skills necessary to inform themselves, when they articulate the belief that their voice is powerless against the moneyed interests who dominate politics, I struggle with this. I don't think it counts as serving my own agenda to suggest that we as a class or as a program can work to develop our own political voice, or that we have a civic responsibility to do so, but I'm not sure. Perhaps someone would care to comment on this. Last, I grow increasingly concerned with what I hear from the field (not necessarily on this listserv, but when I'm engaged in my own work around standards/accountability, etc. here in RI) around the growing trend toward identifying adult education more and more exclusively with workforce development . i agree with many who've posted here that education should aim to do much, much more than develop one's potential as a worker. Yet, more and more, it seems the discussion is being framed in these terms and practitioners don't seem to be rushing in to fight against this narrowing trend. several of you have posted that there are certainly examples of enlightened business people who understand and buy into the idea that education's applications go beyond the workplace, which would suggest, obviously, that many more are out there who see this or might be made to see it. Naturally, I accept the business perspective that for them to buy into education they must be able to see returns on their investment. As Merrifield suggests, we can work within a mutual accountability system, in which all of our needs and goals are recognized and respected. But why does it seem that government policy insists that practice set the Workforce goals and standards as a higher priority, with more clearly defined standards for accountability and much more rigidly defined requirements? Why does it seem to me that these interests get placed far above all others? Even the well-meaning EFF, with its aim of getting learner input into the development of standards, drew its original questions from an external source and defines (as far as I've seen, feel free to correct me) the learner solely in terms of social roles with clear economic implications (where is the "learner-as-artist/writer/philosopher/spiritual entity?). This post is getting unmanagably long and less focused, so I'll end it here... David Hayes From millard at netins.net Sun Nov 14 18:10:43 1999 From: millard at netins.net (Archie Willard) Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 17:10:43 -0600 Subject: NLA Discussion: voc training the sole purpose of adult ed? Message-ID: <199911142342.SAA06803@europe.std.com> I have worked at some kind of job all my life -- some were low paying. This type of job can help some people while going to school, but these jobs are almost always dead-end jobs. I worked most of my life in a meat packing plant (31 years). Anyone who has done this type of work will tell you it is hard physical work. I would get up every day thinking: ?What a way to have t live life?. It would be dark when I would go to work and dark when I would go home at night. There were no windows to see outside. Sometimes I would only see daylight one day a week. You never thought of what tomorrow would bring or what the next week would be like. You lived for what was happening now. Today it is even more of a low paying dead-end job than it was when I worked there. Only because the plant closed and I was pushed out into society did I break out of my dead-end job. I was there because of my poor education. I went through a school system that didn?t look at the 17 to 20% of thepopulation who learned differently (LD) and if you never learned to read, you were looked at as either lazy or dumb. I feel it?s a crime that we arestill sending out students from our high schools who cannot read. There are people in society who say they are not against adults going back to learn to read or to have a second chance. If they were opposed to it, they would appear to be very uncaring people. However, many of those same people benefit from having people like myself to work in dead-end jobs. Some people are happy for a time in a dead-end job, but as the years pass and they look back, there will be an emptiness inside of them as their life passes by. This country can do great things and it has. When I was a young boy there was no TV, there were no Polio vaccinations and no one had been to the moon and back. Our country has done all of these, but it could do a lot more to see that we have a literate society. If only society understood the commitment and time it takes for adult students to make improvements in their literacy skills. Because of all the different levels being used to classify adult students, it will be hard for the adult student to look at himself as a real person. I feel that we are just forcing people to work in minimum wage jobs. I cannot apologize for using the term ?dead-end jobs? in my message. -- Archie Willard Eagle Grove, IA 50533 (US) millard at netins.net FAX - 515-448-3480 URL - http://207.28.234.137/archiew.html From sgabb412 at hotmail.com Sun Nov 14 21:07:51 1999 From: sgabb412 at hotmail.com (Sally Gabb) Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 18:07:51 PST Subject: NLA Discussion: voc training the sole purpose of adult ed? Message-ID: <199911150332.WAA08237@europe.std.com> In reply to list discussion and >From: "Andres Muro" Andres wrote: >There is a tendency by workforce literacy programs to simply teach >students skills for specific low wage, no growth, jobs. There is >vocation ed. monies in the department of ed. As I understand it, a >vocation is an employment choice that fulfill us. I agree - we can get caught in narrow definitions. A problem which CAN arise is the pressure by funding (i.e., the employer) to restrict worksite education to narrow shop interests only. A program has to make very clear that ESOL or GED, etc. at a worksite will offer some specific shop related content, but also, general academic and/or language skills growth, as well as dialogue for occupational/vocational/career ed, personal growth, civic interests, family, etc. If the business or funder doesn't agree, then the program has some choices to make. Also, public education tends to use the word 'vocational' for non professional jobs, rather than 'career', which is often restricted to professional, college bound learners. We can grab the power of language by refusing to bend to reductionist definitions. I agree with Andres when he writes: >My vocation is literacy. Just preparing people for low wage jobs because >the local chamber of commerce is bringing them to your community to employ the >poor minorities is not really vocational education. A final note: Since I define the contributions of each US resident as their 'work', I feel I can shape 'workforce education' in humanistic terms. There is no shame in any job, only shame in the pay rate for some. Workforce education can be most revolutionary, I think, if my vocation is to change the system... Sal Sally Gabb From Glenn_Young at ed.gov Mon Nov 15 09:23:24 1999 From: Glenn_Young at ed.gov (Young, Glenn) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 09:23:24 -0500 Subject: NLA Discussion: Teenagers in ABE Message-ID: <199911152135.QAA14443@europe.std.com> It could be that there is failure to recognize learning disabilities in females in schools - there is evidence to show the relationship between this failure to recognize and welfare. The ratio between those being identified in schools is 4/1 boys - even though the NIH research is showing that no gender differential - so possible some 3/4 of the females with LD are not being identified in public schools. Glenn Young OVAE > -----Original Message----- > From: Coleman, Preston [SMTP:pcoleman at dtae.org] > Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 1999 12:24 PM > To: nla at world.std.com > Subject: NLA Discussion: Teenagers in ABE > > > Hello, Sally. > > I work in the state of Georgia's Office of Adult Literacy in > Atlanta, and I handle a lot of the statistical data concerning adult > education programs. Across the state, 16-18 year old black and white > males > are far more likely to attend adult ed programs than 16-18 year old black > and white females. 19-24 year old black and white males are slightly more > likely to attend adult ed programs than 19-24 year old black and white > females. After age 25, black and white females are far more likely to > attend adult ed than black and white males, and this continues right past > age 60. > > I don't have any evidence to explain this difference, but I suspect that > it's primarily cultural. For example, among Asians, females are more > likely > to attend adult ed at all age levels except 60 and over, where males and > females are equally represented. Among Hispanics, males are more likely > to > attend adult ed up to age 45, after which females are more likely to > attend. > I can't say precisely how different cultures or subcultures might account > for the differences, but it seems clear that there are sex-based > circumstances and expectations that influence who drops out of high school > and who attends adult ed programs. > > Do other states or regions experience similar patterns of attendance based > on age, race, and sex? And does anyone have a theory that might explain > the > differences? > > Preston Coleman, Ph.D. > Georgia Dept. of Technical and Adult Education > 1800 Century Place, N.E., Suite 400 > Atlanta, GA 30345-4304 > 404-679-5234 > pcoleman at dtae.org > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Sally McIntosh [SMTP:grandeur at corinthian.net] > > Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 1999 7:50 AM > > To: nla at world.std.com > > Subject: NLA Discussion: Teenagers in ABE > > > > > > I find the majority of the teens who come into my program are truthfully > > seeking a continuation of their education. Many had some discipline > > problems in high school, but feel the circumstances were out of their > > control. The remainder are "good" students who cannot work in the > > disruptive environment of the present day high school. For the most > part, > > these youth learn quickly, and will work for 4 hours straight without a > > break, very much in the same manner as their older adult ed classmates. > > Of > > course, if you are the kind of instructor who needs a quiet classroom, > > then > > these young people will add some noise. My classes have a consistent > 60% > > under 21 ratio to the 40% over 21 age. The classes are all day, five > days > > per week. By the way, I'd like to ask about the difference in the sexes > > in > > classes. Almost all youth are male, with a few female who try half > > heartedly. I have a few theories, but no hard research on the social > > pressures and economic issues that cause this imbalance. I teach full > > time > > in a small, rural, economically depressed county in Georgia. > > Sally McIntosh > > Marshallville (Macon County) Georgia > > From AndresM at epcc.edu Mon Nov 15 11:24:18 1999 From: AndresM at epcc.edu (Andres Muro) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 09:24:18 -0700 Subject: NLA Discussion: voc training the sole purpose of adult ed? Message-ID: <199911152142.QAA15754@europe.std.com> Jay, et al: Let me explain what I meant by dead end jobs. In El Paso, my community, thousands of women have worked for the garment industry for many years in the past. They are actually responsible for the growth of our community to what it is now. In addition, they have dressed many us throughout the country. Many have devoted over 30 years of service to this industry and helped companies grow considerably. We should be eternally grateful to the labor of these individuals and the pride with which they have performed it. Over the past few years, these companies have been going overseas. Most of these women have been left without employment, or benefits. Many of them are in their 50s and 60s. Instead of thanking them, we are asking them to retrain in another skill and find employment again, starting at minimum wage. I, for one, resent what I consider abuse of the labor force. What our city is trying to do, is to attract companies, and tempt them with the minimum wage, desperate labor force that is readily available. Manufacturing industry with their sights in Mexico and other countries, have made El Paso one of their transition points. This phenomenon is not exclusive of El Paso. We should advocate for better support and treatment of our laborers, since they deserve it. Educational settings are places where students can discuss workforce realities and explore possibilities. If they, then, make certain employment choices, at least they know what they may be getting into. Literacy is not to just train people for the workforce, but to facilitate a better understanding of it. Andres >>> 11/13 1:29 pm >>> Dave..Yours is a good analysis of the two point of view on workplace education. I take issue, however, with the connection you and others make in referring to "low paying, unfullfilling, dead-end jobs". Just because a job is low paying does not mean it is unfullfilling or a dead-end job to the person who holds it...Many of the adult learners who come into our center have such jobs and take great pride in them.I happen to believe that all work is worthwhile and we should not promote such a negative concept of work...as many adult are underemployed, they know that and aspire to something better...They know that underemployment is connected with under-education. Many view their job, regardless of the pay scale, as a stepping stone...When we label jobs as unfullfilling or "dead end" we just add to a sense of poor self-esteem. Every job is important to someone..Just a point of view... JCretella From tsticht at aznet.net Mon Nov 15 11:59:25 1999 From: tsticht at aznet.net (Thomas Sticht) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 08:59:25 -0800 Subject: NLA Info: No Levels Out There Message-ID: <199911152146.QAA16532@europe.std.com> David: Here is the second in a series of Research Notes on testing and accountabiity in adult literacy education that may be of interest to NLA list members. Tom Sticht Research Note 11/15/99 Accountability in Adult Literacy Education II: There Are No Adult Literacy Levels To Be Directly Assessed Thomas G. Sticht Applied Behavioral & Cognitive Sciences, Inc. The Workforce Investment Act 0f 1998, Title II: The Adult Education and Family Literacy Act requires "core indicators" of performance by federally funded literacy programs. The Act requires that levels of performance for each indicator be established, and the levels "?be expressed in an objective, quantifiable, and measureable form; and ?show the progress of the eligible agency toward continuously improving in performance." But establishing these types of performance indicators of adult literacy education is, to say the least, problematic. A case study in the difficulty of developing quantifiable measures of adult literacy ability is given by the National Adult Literacy Survey (NALS) of 1992. The National Center for Education Statistics survey design report stated that the National Adult Literacy Survey would (quote) "Describe the levels of literacy demonstrated by the total adult population as well as by adults comprising various subgroups, including those targeted as "at risk." (end quote) As straightforward as this quote seems, it is actually misleading because, in actuality, there are no "literacy levels" to be "described" in the adult populations of nations. Instead, there are various ways of conceptualizing the nature of literacy and different procedures of measurement that can lead to the construction of alternative representations of adult literacy in society. When discussed as a form of human cognitive ability, as both the NALS and International Adult Literacy Surveys (IALS) do, literacy is a psychological construct and therefore literacy cannot be directly "described." In fact, in the United States over the last 75 years, different representations of adult literacy have been constructed. For instance, the National Assessment of Educational Progress of 1970-71 assessed adult literacy using the same "academic" tasks that were used with school children, such as knowledge of word meanings (vocabulary), using visual aids, following written directions, using reference materials, locating significant facts, getting the main idea from materials, drawing inferences, and critical reading. At the time, there was no particular difficulty expressed by adult educators or anyone else in using these sorts of "school oriented" items to represent adult literacy. The Young Adult Literacy Survey (YALS) of 1985, the NALS of 1993 and the IALS of 1995 are the most recent representations of adult literacy at national levels. These surveys represented adult literacy using "tasks that simulate the literacy demands that adults encounter in their daily lives." Similar "real world" tasks were used earlier in the "Survival Literacy" survey by Louis Harris Associates in 1970, the Adult Functional Reading Study of 1973, the Adult Performance Level Study of 1975 , and the contemporary Comprehensive Adult Student Assessment System (CASAS). The fact that assessments of adult literacy over the decades have constructed various representations of adult literacy ("academic","real world") raises important questions. How should the literacy abilities of adults be represented? Are all representations equally valid? If so, how should we choose the one(s) among the many to use? A recent U. S. General Accounting Office reported that one expert on adult literacy research stated that functional literacy tests made up of "real world" tasks like those of the CASAS, NALS and IALS may lack validity because they are not derived from theoretical models of ability but from everyday literacy tasks. Because of the complex nature of such tasks, it is not clear what implications can be drawn from the test performance. This problem was illustrated in a manual for item writing produced by CASAS. The manual notes that the use of complex, "real world" tasks as items (quote) "...generally tests the use of two or more skills. Therefore, this context is not appropriate in itself for diagnosing weaknesses in specific skills since it is difficult to determine which skill was performed incorrectly" (end quote). In the absence of a clearly specified theory of "literacy" as a psychological construct (as in the NALS/IALS), it is not possible to know how to develop assessments that measure the component knowledge and skills considered to make-up the ability or abilities that constitute "literacy." Without knowing what specific knowledge or skills are being assessed in "real world" tasks, it is not clear to what extent test performance reflects literacy ability or some other abilities, such as problem solving, reasoning, language comprehension, vocabulary knowledge, management of test-taking anxiety, interpersonal skills, or some complex, interactive combination of all these or whatever. This problem of interpretation of what is being measured may not be so important for those who perform well, and can therefore be assumed to possess whatever knowledge and skill is called for in performing the "complex information processing" (literacy?) tasks. The problem becomes critical when the focus of concern is on understanding why it is that those who do not perform well do not perform well. What kinds of services should be provided to help them improve their ability to perform these kinds of tasks? If government contracting agencies cannot inform adult literacy education programs with some precision about what it is they should be teaching based on the types of measurements the government develops or otherwise promotes to construct particular representations of adults' literacy abilities, should these same government agencies then turn around and use performance on such measures to give or withhold funding for programs that fail to teach and improve whatever it is that the tests measure? It seems to me that a socially oriented litigation organization could find the basis for a solid class action case of "mal-literacy practice" here! Reference: Citations to quotes used herein are given in:Sticht, T. (1999, April). Using Telephone and Mail Surveys as a Supplement or Alternative to Door-to-Door Surveys in the Assessment of Adult Literacy. Washington, DC: U. S. Department of Education, National Center for Education Statistics, Education Statistics Service Institute (ESSI). From AWilder106 at aol.com Mon Nov 15 18:52:44 1999 From: AWilder106 at aol.com (AWilder106 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 18:52:44 EST Subject: NLA Info: No Levels Out There Message-ID: <199911160052.TAA19963@europe.std.com> Tom, Thanks for sharing this with us. Once again, you are right on the money. Andrea Wilder From kathleenb at epcc.edu Mon Nov 15 18:52:25 1999 From: kathleenb at epcc.edu (Kathleen Bombach) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 16:52:25 -0700 Subject: NLA Discussion: voc training the sole purpose of adult ed? Message-ID: <199911160100.UAA21704@europe.std.com> Andres: I agree with what you said, with one exception. We are constantly marketing El Paso to higher wage industries. The problem is they are ignoring us and going to Tucson, Albuquerque, Austin, etc. The reason? Those cities have much better educated workers. If they are going to pay higher wages they want better skilled workers. The companies that look at El Paso are looking for the lowest US wages they can pay. So it is a chicken-and-egg phenomenon. Companies that pay better go where the skills are. Pretty much they ignore El Paso. So do we improve skills so we can attract those companies? We cannot control the companies' behavior through social exhortations or by appreciation to workers once the workers are no longer cheap enough. Capitalism is inexorably rational and inevitably cruel. Kathleen Bombach >>> "Andres Muro" 11/15 9:24 AM >>> Jay, et al: Let me explain what I meant by dead end jobs. In El Paso, my community, thousands of women have worked for the garment industry for many years in the past. They are actually responsible for the growth of our community to what it is now. In addition, they have dressed many us throughout the country. Many have devoted over 30 years of service to this industry and helped companies grow considerably. We should be eternally grateful to the labor of these individuals and the pride with which they have performed it. Over the past few years, these companies have been going overseas. Most of these women have been left without employment, or benefits. Many of them are in their 50s and 60s. Instead of thanking them, we are asking them to retrain in another skill and find employment again, starting at minimum wage. I, for one, resent what I consider abuse of the labor force. What our city is trying to do, is to attract companies, and tempt them with the minimum wage, desperate labor force that is readily available. Manufacturing industry with their sights in Mexico and other countries, have made El Paso one of their transition points. This phenomenon is not exclusive of El Paso. We should advocate for better support and treatment of our laborers, since they deserve it. Educational settings are places where students can discuss workforce realities and explore possibilities. If they, then, make certain employment choices, at least they know what they may be getting into. Literacy is not to just train people for the workforce, but to facilitate a better understanding of it. Andres >>> 11/13 1:29 pm >>> Dave..Yours is a good analysis of the two point of view on workplace education. I take issue, however, with the connection you and others make in referring to "low paying, unfullfilling, dead-end jobs". Just because a job is low paying does not mean it is unfullfilling or a dead-end job to the person who holds it...Many of the adult learners who come into our center have such jobs and take great pride in them.I happen to believe that all work is worthwhile and we should not promote such a negative concept of work...as many adult are underemployed, they know that and aspire to something better...They know that underemployment is connected with under-education. Many view their job, regardless of the pay scale, as a stepping stone...When we label jobs as unfullfilling or "dead end" we just add to a sense of poor self-esteem. Every job is important to someone..Just a point of view... JCretella From DEBBYDAM at aol.com Mon Nov 15 21:04:13 1999 From: DEBBYDAM at aol.com (DEBBYDAM at aol.com) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 21:04:13 EST Subject: NLA Discussion: voc training the sole purpose of adult ed? Message-ID: <199911161015.FAA29529@europe.std.com> I have to jump in to challenge the notion that capitalism is rational. Instead, I find debates around work in the US irrational in that the issue of a living wage is never raised. How is it rational for CEOs to accumulate money and perks at a rate many times over the historical precedents and justify paying workers at a wage so low that we, the taxpayers have to subsidize it with food stamps and other services so that people will not literally starve to death in the richest country in the world in boom times? Am I missing something? Workers at any skill level deserve a living wage in any rational society. DEBBYDAM at aol.com From cbking2 at flash.net Tue Nov 16 09:59:44 1999 From: cbking2 at flash.net (cbking2) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 08:59:44 -0600 Subject: NLA Discussion:Capitalism is a working system, people are irrational Message-ID: <199911162251.RAA29780@europe.std.com> Excellent post from DEBBYDAM. Capitalism is only a means for cruel, irresponsible, and greedy people to do their cruel, irresponsible, and greedy thing. If it were another system, greedy people would find another opportunistic way to exploit and control people to their own advantage, to keep them existing, but FOR them. On the other hand, being poor and illiterate does not necessarily breed moral excellence. On the contrary, it MAY create crises where a moral person must choose between having a meal and stealing, for instance, or flirting with hopelessness. Money, on the other hand, is a great anesthesizer, and seems to create moral myopia in many where they are blind to the social problems they could take part in solving. There are good and bad people on either side of the dollar divide. The issue is how each of us uses our power, and of course the headless corporation is another place to hide from our social or spiritual relationships to others. Unlike literacy and education there are no government programs to wake up the monied public to their intrinsic responsibility to their fellow man, to the developmental history of the world, or ultimately to their own personal selves; but if there were, perhaps the "trickle down" effect--or better, to come full circle--would work in the economic arena where merely forced economic props do not. All of us are focused on and fighting this literacy battle, and it's right to do that. However, the lack of moral "enlightenment" in those six-chimney homes, and the quiet avoidance in our corporate boardrooms, should not go unremarked. Where creating a working economy is part of our success, this quiet greed is a big part of our failure. Catherine King > -----Original Message----- > From: nla-approval at world.std.com [mailto:nla-approval at world.std.com]On > Behalf Of DEBBYDAM at aol.com > Sent: Monday, November 15, 1999 8:04 PM > To: nla at world.std.com > Subject: NLA Discussion: voc training the sole purpose of adult ed? > > > > I have to jump in to challenge the notion that capitalism is rational. > Instead, I find debates around work in the US irrational in that > the issue of > a living wage is never raised. How is it rational for CEOs to accumulate > money and perks at a rate many times over the historical precedents and > justify paying workers at a wage so low that we, the taxpayers have to > subsidize it with food stamps and other services so that people will not > literally starve to death in the richest country in the world in > boom times? > Am I missing something? Workers at any skill level deserve a > living wage in > any rational society. > > DEBBYDAM at aol.com > > > From sbarton at i-plus.net Tue Nov 16 09:06:53 1999 From: sbarton at i-plus.net (Sue Barton) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 09:06:53 -0500 Subject: NLA Discussion: The Powers that Be Message-ID: <199911162259.RAA01222@europe.std.com> Dear Group I think that the "powers that be" are any one of many individuals who make decisions concerning activities that we as educators might be involved in ...whether they be local, state or national. David Hayes alluded to human empowerment as the reason why we educate and I think that is so true..EFF (Equipped for the Future Initiative) is one such philosophical methodology to do just that. The student is empowered through access, voice, independent action, and building bridges to the future. One of the roles that our students have as a citizen but one which is underused, in my opinion, is the role of citizen..and students should very definately be shown how this role works. They need to find out for themselves how they want to participate in it , but we as adult educators should teach them what their options are. It is funny that David should also mention EFF's worker role in his discussion. The second EFF role is the worker role. Adult education should be equally concerned about this role but not at the exclusion of the other two roles (citizen and family). Lastly David does mention EFF and sees a part of the human function omitted from the EFF framework. My contention is that the spiritual, creative side of an individual is incorporated into all three of the roles of an adult in this society. Therefore when adult ed address these three roles, the teacher uses methods that call the student's attention to a better understandiing of himself as well as increasing his knowledge base towards functioning within this society. We must ask ourselves, why are adults needing our assistance? I see it as that they have a skill need or some other need that will help them to better their life. Sue Barton New River Community College -----Original Message----- From: PDRNRI at aol.com To: nla at world.std.com Date: Sunday, November 14, 1999 6:52 PM Subject: NLA Discussion: The Powers that Be > >Let me begin this post by saying that as a relative newcomer to the field, >especially to administrative work and policy issues, this listserv has done a >wonderful job of educating me to the issues, needs, and directions in adult >ed policy-making. I'm looking forward especially to the exchange with Ron >Pugsley, and have particularly enjoyed reading and reflecting upon Catherine >King's series of posts concerning facilitation of participation in the >democratic process. I think as the time for this sharing of questions and >views with Mr. Pugsley approaches, it is especially important to be thinking >in this context. > >I'd like to comment briefly on a couple of recent posts by Sally Gabb, >address the issue of providing a historical context for our struggle for >adequate support for an adult education which serves to strengthen the >democratic process, add an anecdote from my own class' experience, and close >with some questions I'd like help with. > >Sally pointed out in her post last week that class size was an issue of >resource distribution. She asked if, in our opinions, the "powers that be" >were ready for the people we serve to become full participants in the >"democratic" (her quotes) process. I submitted that it was my opinion >that they are not, no more than they have ever been. I've often >wondered if my perspective is too naive, too cynical, perhaps less >informed than it should be. Maybe some of you could help me in >reflecting further. > >I should start by making certain my interpretation of the term "powers that >be" is understood. It's a vague term, obviously. I welcome the input of >anyone who wants to develop or refute this definition. I define "powers that >be" not as government or government officials, but as the small minority of >Americans in whose hands a great percentage of our overall wealth lies - >those who exert, through their contributions, hefty tax submissions, and >other persuasive powers, a tremendous deal of influence over policy >development at the federal level. > >I submit that the rights struggles Sally mentions (emancipation from slavery, >women's suffrage, civil rights), as well as others (unionization) won by the >people and (equal rights, draft resistance, etc.) not won by the people, >have come often at the end of decades of struggle and considerable bloodshed >- in large part because of the resistance to such infringements on the status >quo by the "powers that be". > >Yes, it is certainly true that such struggles might not have been waged had >it not been for the flexibility of the Constitution (in particular the Bill >of Rights, which as I remember was vigorously resisted by many framers of the >original document) which specifically protects the right to petition the >government). I would argue, however that it is also reasonable to think that >such drawn out, painful, violent struggles would not have been necessary in a >truly inclusive democratic republic in which recognition of the dignity and >worth of all humans was an operative concept, not a noble pursuit. > >I think it's critical that we frame our struggle for adequate funding and >public support of adult education as a pursuit of human empowerment (not >merely workforce enhancement) in this historical context. The original >framers of the Constitution brilliantly created a document which allows for >amendment. Much can be found, however, in the original text and context >which suggests that their view of a democratic republic was not as inclusive >as it might have been. Untaxed Native Americans were not counted as people, >slaves were counted as three-fourths of a person, the voting public was >limited to white, property-owning men, neither the Senate nor the Presidency >were to be chosen by popular vote, and so on. Much was written in to secure >the powers of property owners (as a means, I would assume, of courting their >support of the document). > >>From that time forward, with few notable exceptions, the struggle for >democratic recognition on the part of the economically disenfranchised has >met with active resistance or inaction from the "powers that be" and the >political establishment. When emancipation threatened the economic >stability of southern plantations, blood was shed. When native nations stood >in the way of the seizure of land and raw materials for agriculture and >industry therein, blood was shed. When industrial-age workers - men, women >and children - struggled to secure their safety in factories, where death and >debilitating injury went unregulated and generally unpunished, blood was >shed. When African Americans rose to assert their rights as equal citizens >desiring equal economic opportunity, blood was shed. > >I would argue that this republic has long supported the interests of its most >economically advantaged citizens over the disadvantaged. Yes, much progress >toward a just society has been made. Yes, the most fundamental rights of the >greater part of our citizenry has been secured as the power of the vote has >been more widely granted. But none of these rights have come without >struggle. None have come simply by virtue of the fact that they were >just, or that they favored equality over oppression and exploitation. > >The struggle for which we as educators all work, the struggle for an open, >more democratic process in which all people engage as enlightened >participants, must continue in the face of the resistance of these "powers >that be" whose aim appears to be (and to have been) the maintenance of a >status quo which fosters the economic growth for a prosperous few at the >expense of the health and well being of an increasingly economically unstable >many. Most recently, in my own experience, I have watched the economic >stability of the workers I serve and countless others like them erode at the >hands of new initiatives in business which serve to weaken the labor market >at its lowest wage levels. > >In our dislocated worker program here in RI, people whose factories have been >bought and closed down by companies interested in securing tax write-offs at >the expense of the emotional and economic well being of tens and hundreds of >workers struggle to improve language and literacy skills in an effort to >market themselves. They study alongside those whose jobs have been stripped >by companies who seek to increase profit by contracting work to other nations >where labor is cheaper and more readily exploited. Too often, a return to >the workforce for my students means an agreement with a temporary employment >agency - no security, no benefits. Usually, a return to work means a similar >type of position as previously held, with reduced pay, with reduced benefits >and plenty of overtime. Those who successfully go on to training programs >often meet the same fate, as the jobs they train for do not exist in >sufficient numbers to support large influxes of inexperienced workers. > >Recently, one of our classes (an English GED class for advanced ESOL >learners) raised an angry voice against the emerging temporary worker market >in Rhode Island. When I mentioned the existence of the United Workers' >Committee, an organization run through Progreso Latino here in RI which has >been working on pushing regulation at the legislative level, they impressed >me with their forceful response - yes, they were very interested in being >visited by a committee member, and yes, they would be quite ready to call >and write their legislators in support of the committee's initiatives. Are >the "powers that be" - those profiting at both ends of this rapidly growing >business in which full-time, long term human labor is actually rented - ready >for this? Moreover, are they ready for the checks and regulations against >contracting work to overseas slave camps at the expense of our own working >class which are bound to follow any successful effort to empower those >workers as citizens? > >Catherine King was right, by the way - if I remember correctly, she long ago >posted something along the lines of saying that we must struggle at all times >against indoctrination of our students to our own socio-political concepts, >even as we judge those concepts to represent the noble pursuit of democracy. >The power to analyze and participate democratically must come from within. >When I'm teaching, I struggle against this all the time! When students >assert that they have no voice, when they admit that they are afraid to try >to vote because they feel uninformed and lacking in the reading skills >necessary to inform themselves, when they articulate the belief that their >voice is powerless against the moneyed interests who dominate politics, I >struggle with this. I don't think it counts as serving my own agenda to >suggest that we as a class or as a program can work to develop our own >political voice, or that we have a civic responsibility to do so, but I'm not >sure. Perhaps someone would care to comment on this. > >Last, I grow increasingly concerned with what I hear from the field (not >necessarily on this listserv, but when I'm engaged in my own work around >standards/accountability, etc. here in RI) around the growing trend toward >identifying adult education more and more exclusively with workforce development >. i agree with many who've posted here that education should aim to do >much, much more than develop one's potential as a worker. Yet, more and >more, it seems the discussion is being framed in these terms and >practitioners don't seem to be rushing in to fight against this narrowing >trend. several of you have posted that there are certainly examples of >enlightened business people who understand and buy into the idea that >education's applications go beyond the workplace, which would suggest, >obviously, that many more are out there who see this or might be made to see >it. Naturally, I accept the business perspective that for them to buy into >education they must be able to see returns on their investment. As >Merrifield suggests, we can work within a mutual accountability system, in >which all of our needs and goals are recognized and respected. But why does >it seem that government policy insists that practice set the Workforce goals >and standards as a higher priority, with more clearly defined standards for >accountability and much more rigidly defined requirements? Why does it seem >to me that these interests get placed far above all others? Even the >well-meaning EFF, with its aim of getting learner input into the development >of standards, drew its original questions from an external source and defines >(as far as I've seen, feel free to correct me) the learner solely in terms of >social roles with clear economic implications (where is the >"learner-as-artist/writer/philosopher/spiritual entity?). > >This post is getting unmanagably long and less focused, so I'll end it here... > >David Hayes > > > > > From arthur at ellijay.com Wed Nov 17 13:15:25 1999 From: arthur at ellijay.com (Art LaChance) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 10:15:25 -0800 Subject: NLA Discussion: voc training the sole purpose of adult ed? Message-ID: <199911162308.SAA02816@europe.std.com> Hello All, About five years ago a small manufacturing company of stove and oven controls here closed up shop and moved to Mexico. The reason was because they were putting out bad equipment and almost lost all their accounts. An investigative team from the home office discovered that of the 15 or so folks working in Quality Control, only one (the supervisor) could do math at the level required to understand the Quality parameters specified in the associated manuals. The team strongly suggested that everybody (especially QC) in the plant be assessed for math skills and be provided math remediation ASAP. Plant workers officially threatened a walk-out to plant management if this was attempted. They closed up shop and displaced 179 workers within the quarter. About two years before this incident another much larger air conditioning manufacturing company located here went through a very similar scenario. Equipment and work load was moved to an adjoining state, only upper level management transferred, everybody else was laid off. Several other companies have seriously considered moving into the vacant buildings and/or community and have passed it up. Almost 50% of the adult population here over the age of 25 is without a high school or GED education, not counting the Hispanics from Mexico and Guatemala who come here to work the chicken processing factory. Cold, wet, no skills required. New highway has brought in the fast food, high volume dept stores, etc. These new small industries can't find and hold onto academically qualified workers, or they make token attempts at improving skills. If you do the high level math, it's exactly as Kathleen indicates, Capitalism will satisfy itself regardless. And why not? Look at the tax base that is being spent on educating the work force and then critically examine the success rate of that system. IF it were a "business" we would have shut it down and moved on to something else. David asked why business and industry has maintained a low profile in sponsoring workplace education programs. I think they sensibly expect that the work force should come to them already prepared to accomplish the jobs. We're not "providing" much for industry, they still have to buy their own teachers and materials to reeducate those folks that the other system said were sent on to them educated, or that couldn't be educated. This is a political paradigm that has no concrete solution save that we as a society change our collective perspective of the value of education, and revamp the current system(s) to satisfy the needs of our own economic survival. Art Art LaChance Gilmer Learning Center Ellijay, GA Kathleen Bombach wrote: > > Andres: > > I agree with what you said, with one exception. We are constantly marketing > El Paso to higher wage industries. The problem is they are ignoring us and > going to Tucson, Albuquerque, Austin, etc. The reason? Those cities have > much better educated workers. If they are going to pay higher wages they > want better skilled workers. The companies that look at El Paso are looking > for the lowest US wages they can pay. So it is a chicken-and-egg phenomenon. > Companies that pay better go where the skills are. Pretty much they ignore > El Paso. So do we improve skills so we can attract those companies? We > cannot control the companies' behavior through social exhortations or by > appreciation to workers once the workers are no longer cheap enough. > Capitalism is inexorably rational and inevitably cruel. > > Kathleen Bombach > > >>> "Andres Muro" 11/15 9:24 AM >>> > > Jay, et al: > > Let me explain what I meant by dead end jobs. In El Paso, my community, > thousands of women have worked for the garment industry for many years in the > past. They are actually responsible for the growth of our community to what > it is now. In addition, they have dressed many us throughout the country. > Many have devoted over 30 years of service to this industry and helped > companies grow considerably. > > We should be eternally grateful to the labor of these individuals and the > pride with which they have performed it. Over the past few years, these > companies have been going overseas. Most of these women have been left > without employment, or benefits. Many of them are in their 50s and 60s. > Instead of thanking them, we are asking them to retrain in another skill and > find employment again, starting at minimum wage. I, for one, resent what I > consider abuse of the labor force. > > What our city is trying to do, is to attract companies, and tempt them with > the minimum wage, desperate labor force that is readily available. > Manufacturing industry with their sights in Mexico and other countries, have > made El Paso one of their transition points. This phenomenon is not exclusive > of El Paso. We should advocate for better support and treatment of our > laborers, since they deserve it. Educational settings are places where > students can discuss workforce realities and explore possibilities. If they, > then, make certain employment choices, at least they know what they may be > getting into. Literacy is not to just train people for the workforce, but to > facilitate a better understanding of it. > > Andres > > >>> 11/13 1:29 pm >>> > > Dave..Yours is a good analysis of the two point of view on workplace > education. I take issue, however, with the connection you and others make > in referring to "low paying, unfullfilling, dead-end jobs". Just because a job > is low paying does not mean it is unfullfilling or a dead-end job to the > person who holds it...Many of the adult learners who come into our center > have such jobs and take great pride in them.I happen to believe that all work > is worthwhile and we should not promote such a negative concept of > work...as many adult are underemployed, they know that and aspire to something > better...They know that underemployment is connected with under-education. > Many view their job, regardless of the pay scale, as a stepping stone...When > we label jobs as unfullfilling or "dead end" we just add to a sense of poor > self-esteem. Every job is important to someone..Just a point of view... > > JCretella From rkrawiec at mindspring.com Tue Nov 16 21:49:50 1999 From: rkrawiec at mindspring.com (rkrawiec at mindspring.com) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 21:49:50 -0500 Subject: NLA Discussion: EFF and the Spiritual/Creative Aspect Message-ID: <199911170320.WAA10191@europe.std.com> Sue; I disagree strongly with your contention that the spiritual/creative side of an individual is 'incorporated' (another business word, by the way) into the 3 roles set forth in the EFF framework. A person's spiritual/creative aspect is something that should be developed for its own sake. While you can certainly 'use' these parts of your personality on the job, at home, or in your community, their value is not dependent on their utility. We should be teaching people to develop these aspects not because they can apply them elsewhere, but because creativity is a value in itself. We can teach people 'skills' they can use in other venues without helping them develop theircreative/spiritual side. Or we can help people develop their creativity, and then they will become better parents/workers/community members. Prehistoric people didn't etch pictures of the hunt on cave walls because it would help them get a job, or learn how to discipline their children in positive ways. They did it to communicate their vision of life to others, to tell a 'story', Rich -----Original Message----- From: Sue Barton To: nla at world.std.com Date: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 5:59 PM Subject: NLA Discussion: The Powers that Be > >Dear Group > >I think that the "powers that be" are any one of many individuals who make >decisions concerning activities that we as educators might be involved in >...whether they be local, state or national. > >David Hayes alluded to human empowerment as the reason why we educate and I >think that is so true..EFF (Equipped for the Future Initiative) is one such >philosophical methodology to do just that. The student is empowered through >access, voice, independent action, and building bridges to the future. One >of the roles that our students have as a citizen but one which is underused, >in my opinion, is the role of citizen..and students should very definately >be shown how this role works. They need to find out for themselves how they >want to participate in it , but we as adult educators should teach them what >their options are. > >It is funny that David should also mention EFF's worker role in his >discussion. The second EFF role is the worker role. Adult education should >be equally concerned about this role but not at the exclusion of the other >two roles (citizen and family). > >Lastly David does mention EFF and sees a part of the human function omitted >from the EFF framework. My contention is that the spiritual, creative side >of an individual is incorporated into all three of the roles of an adult in >this society. Therefore when adult ed address these three roles, the >teacher uses methods that call the student's attention to a better >understandiing of himself as well as increasing his knowledge base towards >functioning within this society. > >We must ask ourselves, why are adults needing our assistance? I see it as >that they have a skill need or some other need that will help them to better >their life. > >Sue Barton >New River Community College >-----Original Message----- >From: PDRNRI at aol.com >To: nla at world.std.com >Date: Sunday, November 14, 1999 6:52 PM >Subject: NLA Discussion: The Powers that Be > > >> >>Let me begin this post by saying that as a relative newcomer to the field, >>especially to administrative work and policy issues, this listserv has done >a >>wonderful job of educating me to the issues, needs, and directions in adult >>ed policy-making. I'm looking forward especially to the exchange with Ron >>Pugsley, and have particularly enjoyed reading and reflecting upon >Catherine >>King's series of posts concerning facilitation of participation in the >>democratic process. I think as the time for this sharing of questions and >>views with Mr. Pugsley approaches, it is especially important to be >thinking >>in this context. >> >>I'd like to comment briefly on a couple of recent posts by Sally Gabb, >>address the issue of providing a historical context for our struggle for >>adequate support for an adult education which serves to strengthen the >>democratic process, add an anecdote from my own class' experience, and >close >>with some questions I'd like help with. >> >>Sally pointed out in her post last week that class size was an issue of >>resource distribution. She asked if, in our opinions, the "powers that be" >>were ready for the people we serve to become full participants in the >>"democratic" (her quotes) process. I submitted that it was my opinion >>that they are not, no more than they have ever been. I've often >>wondered if my perspective is too naive, too cynical, perhaps less >>informed than it should be. Maybe some of you could help me in >>reflecting further. >> >>I should start by making certain my interpretation of the term "powers that >>be" is understood. It's a vague term, obviously. I welcome the input of >>anyone who wants to develop or refute this definition. I define "powers >that >>be" not as government or government officials, but as the small minority of >>Americans in whose hands a great percentage of our overall wealth lies - >>those who exert, through their contributions, hefty tax submissions, and >>other persuasive powers, a tremendous deal of influence over policy >>development at the federal level. >> >>I submit that the rights struggles Sally mentions (emancipation from >slavery, >>women's suffrage, civil rights), as well as others (unionization) won by >the >>people and (equal rights, draft resistance, etc.) not won by the people, >>have come often at the end of decades of struggle and considerable >bloodshed >>- in large part because of the resistance to such infringements on the >status >>quo by the "powers that be". >> >>Yes, it is certainly true that such struggles might not have been waged had >>it not been for the flexibility of the Constitution (in particular the Bill >>of Rights, which as I remember was vigorously resisted by many framers of >the >>original document) which specifically protects the right to petition the >>government). I would argue, however that it is also reasonable to think >that >>such drawn out, painful, violent struggles would not have been necessary in >a >>truly inclusive democratic republic in which recognition of the dignity and >>worth of all humans was an operative concept, not a noble pursuit. >> >>I think it's critical that we frame our struggle for adequate funding and >>public support of adult education as a pursuit of human empowerment (not >>merely workforce enhancement) in this historical context. The original >>framers of the Constitution brilliantly created a document which allows for >>amendment. Much can be found, however, in the original text and context >>which suggests that their view of a democratic republic was not as >inclusive >>as it might have been. Untaxed Native Americans were not counted as >people, >>slaves were counted as three-fourths of a person, the voting public was >>limited to white, property-owning men, neither the Senate nor the >Presidency >>were to be chosen by popular vote, and so on. Much was written in to >secure >>the powers of property owners (as a means, I would assume, of courting >their >>support of the document). >> >>>From that time forward, with few notable exceptions, the struggle for >>democratic recognition on the part of the economically disenfranchised has >>met with active resistance or inaction from the "powers that be" and the >>political establishment. When emancipation threatened the economic >>stability of southern plantations, blood was shed. When native nations >stood >>in the way of the seizure of land and raw materials for agriculture and >>industry therein, blood was shed. When industrial-age workers - men, women >>and children - struggled to secure their safety in factories, where death >and >>debilitating injury went unregulated and generally unpunished, blood was >>shed. When African Americans rose to assert their rights as equal citizens >>desiring equal economic opportunity, blood was shed. >> >>I would argue that this republic has long supported the interests of its >most >>economically advantaged citizens over the disadvantaged. Yes, much >progress >>toward a just society has been made. Yes, the most fundamental rights of >the >>greater part of our citizenry has been secured as the power of the vote has >>been more widely granted. But none of these rights have come without >>struggle. None have come simply by virtue of the fact that they were >>just, or that they favored equality over oppression and exploitation. >> >>The struggle for which we as educators all work, the struggle for an open, >>more democratic process in which all people engage as enlightened >>participants, must continue in the face of the resistance of these "powers >>that be" whose aim appears to be (and to have been) the maintenance of a >>status quo which fosters the economic growth for a prosperous few at the >>expense of the health and well being of an increasingly economically >unstable >>many. Most recently, in my own experience, I have watched the economic >>stability of the workers I serve and countless others like them erode at >the >>hands of new initiatives in business which serve to weaken the labor market >>at its lowest wage levels. >> >>In our dislocated worker program here in RI, people whose factories have >been >>bought and closed down by companies interested in securing tax write-offs >at >>the expense of the emotional and economic well being of tens and hundreds >of >>workers struggle to improve language and literacy skills in an effort to >>market themselves. They study alongside those whose jobs have been >stripped >>by companies who seek to increase profit by contracting work to other >nations >>where labor is cheaper and more readily exploited. Too often, a return to >>the workforce for my students means an agreement with a temporary >employment >>agency - no security, no benefits. Usually, a return to work means a >similar >>type of position as previously held, with reduced pay, with reduced >benefits >>and plenty of overtime. Those who successfully go on to training programs >>often meet the same fate, as the jobs they train for do not exist in >>sufficient numbers to support large influxes of inexperienced workers. >> >>Recently, one of our classes (an English GED class for advanced ESOL >>learners) raised an angry voice against the emerging temporary worker >market >>in Rhode Island. When I mentioned the existence of the United Workers' >>Committee, an organization run through Progreso Latino here in RI which has >>been working on pushing regulation at the legislative level, they impressed >>me with their forceful response - yes, they were very interested in being >>visited by a committee member, and yes, they would be quite ready to call >>and write their legislators in support of the committee's initiatives. >Are >>the "powers that be" - those profiting at both ends of this rapidly growing >>business in which full-time, long term human labor is actually rented - >ready >>for this? Moreover, are they ready for the checks and regulations against >>contracting work to overseas slave camps at the expense of our own working >>class which are bound to follow any successful effort to empower those >>workers as citizens? >> >>Catherine King was right, by the way - if I remember correctly, she long >ago >>posted something along the lines of saying that we must struggle at all >times >>against indoctrination of our students to our own socio-political concepts, >>even as we judge those concepts to represent the noble pursuit of >democracy. >>The power to analyze and participate democratically must come from within. >>When I'm teaching, I struggle against this all the time! When students >>assert that they have no voice, when they admit that they are afraid to try >>to vote because they feel uninformed and lacking in the reading skills >>necessary to inform themselves, when they articulate the belief that their >>voice is powerless against the moneyed interests who dominate politics, I >>struggle with this. I don't think it counts as serving my own agenda to >>suggest that we as a class or as a program can work to develop our own >>political voice, or that we have a civic responsibility to do so, but I'm >not >>sure. Perhaps someone would care to comment on this. >> >>Last, I grow increasingly concerned with what I hear from the field (not >>necessarily on this listserv, but when I'm engaged in my own work around >>standards/accountability, etc. here in RI) around the growing trend toward >>identifying adult education more and more exclusively with workforce >development >>. i agree with many who've posted here that education should aim to do >>much, much more than develop one's potential as a worker. Yet, more and >>more, it seems the discussion is being framed in these terms and >>practitioners don't seem to be rushing in to fight against this narrowing >>trend. several of you have posted that there are certainly examples of >>enlightened business people who understand and buy into the idea that >>education's applications go beyond the workplace, which would suggest, >>obviously, that many more are out there who see this or might be made to >see >>it. Naturally, I accept the business perspective that for them to buy into >>education they must be able to see returns on their investment. As >>Merrifield suggests, we can work within a mutual accountability system, in >>which all of our needs and goals are recognized and respected. But why >does >>it seem that government policy insists that practice set the Workforce >goals >>and standards as a higher priority, with more clearly defined standards for >>accountability and much more rigidly defined requirements? Why does it >seem >>to me that these interests get placed far above all others? Even the >>well-meaning EFF, with its aim of getting learner input into the >development >>of standards, drew its original questions from an external source and >defines >>(as far as I've seen, feel free to correct me) the learner solely in terms >of >>social roles with clear economic implications (where is the >>"learner-as-artist/writer/philosopher/spiritual entity?). >> >>This post is getting unmanagably long and less focused, so I'll end it >here... >> >>David Hayes >> >> >> >> >> > > From sbarton at i-plus.net Wed Nov 17 01:29:55 1999 From: sbarton at i-plus.net (Sue Barton) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 01:29:55 -0500 Subject: NLA Discussion: EFF and the Spiritual/Creative Aspect Message-ID: <199911171235.HAA08294@europe.std.com> Rich, I agree that the creative side of an individual is important. The question is what is the role of adult education in a person's life? The role of the church and the community is one of nurturing the spiritual /creative side of an individual. These qualities can then be incorporated (Webster = to combine or join with something already formed; not exclusively a business term) into the curriculum. No one would advocate excluding the creative side of an individual out of the classroom but creativity and spirituality are not roles. They are qualities. EFF focuses on the role of the adult as they function in the family, on the job and in the community. SUE -----Original Message----- From: rkrawiec at mindspring.com To: nla at world.std.com Date: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 10:57 PM Subject: NLA Discussion: EFF and the Spiritual/Creative Aspect > >Sue; > >I disagree strongly with your contention that the spiritual/creative side of >an individual is 'incorporated' (another business word, by the way) into >the 3 roles set forth in the EFF framework. A person's spiritual/creative >aspect is something that should be developed for its own sake. While you >can certainly 'use' these parts of your personality on the job, at home, >or in your community, their value is not dependent on their utility. We >should be teaching people to develop these aspects not because they can >apply them elsewhere, but because creativity is a value in itself. We can >teach people 'skills' they can use in other venues without helping them >develop theircreative/spiritual side. Or we can help people develop their >creativity, and then they will become better parents/workers/community >members. > >Prehistoric people didn't etch pictures of the hunt on cave walls because it >would help them get a job, or learn how to discipline their children in >positive ways. They did it to communicate their vision of life to others, >to tell a 'story', > >Rich > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Sue Barton >To: nla at world.std.com >Date: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 5:59 PM >Subject: NLA Discussion: The Powers that Be > > >> >>Dear Group >> >>I think that the "powers that be" are any one of many individuals who make >>decisions concerning activities that we as educators might be involved in >>...whether they be local, state or national. >> >>David Hayes alluded to human empowerment as the reason why we educate and I >>think that is so true..EFF (Equipped for the Future Initiative) is one such >>philosophical methodology to do just that. The student is empowered >through >>access, voice, independent action, and building bridges to the future. One >>of the roles that our students have as a citizen but one which is >underused, >>in my opinion, is the role of citizen..and students should very definately >>be shown how this role works. They need to find out for themselves how >they >>want to participate in it , but we as adult educators should teach them >what >>their options are. >> >>It is funny that David should also mention EFF's worker role in his >>discussion. The second EFF role is the worker role. Adult education >should >>be equally concerned about this role but not at the exclusion of the other >>two roles (citizen and family). >> >>Lastly David does mention EFF and sees a part of the human function omitted >>from the EFF framework. My contention is that the spiritual, creative side >>of an individual is incorporated into all three of the roles of an adult in >>this society. Therefore when adult ed address these three roles, the >>teacher uses methods that call the student's attention to a better >>understandiing of himself as well as increasing his knowledge base towards >>functioning within this society. >> >>We must ask ourselves, why are adults needing our assistance? I see it as >>that they have a skill need or some other need that will help them to >better >>their life. >> >>Sue Barton >>New River Community College >>-----Original Message----- >>From: PDRNRI at aol.com >>To: nla at world.std.com >>Date: Sunday, November 14, 1999 6:52 PM >>Subject: NLA Discussion: The Powers that Be >> >> >>> >>>Let me begin this post by saying that as a relative newcomer to the field, >>>especially to administrative work and policy issues, this listserv has >done >>a >>>wonderful job of educating me to the issues, needs, and directions in >adult >>>ed policy-making. I'm looking forward especially to the exchange with Ron >>>Pugsley, and have particularly enjoyed reading and reflecting upon >>Catherine >>>King's series of posts concerning facilitation of participation in the >>>democratic process. I think as the time for this sharing of questions and >>>views with Mr. Pugsley approaches, it is especially important to be >>thinking >>>in this context. >>> >>>I'd like to comment briefly on a couple of recent posts by Sally Gabb, >>>address the issue of providing a historical context for our struggle for >>>adequate support for an adult education which serves to strengthen the >>>democratic process, add an anecdote from my own class' experience, and >>close >>>with some questions I'd like help with. >>> >>>Sally pointed out in her post last week that class size was an issue of >>>resource distribution. She asked if, in our opinions, the "powers that >be" >>>were ready for the people we serve to become full participants in the >>>"democratic" (her quotes) process. I submitted that it was my opinion >>>that they are not, no more than they have ever been. I've often >>>wondered if my perspective is too naive, too cynical, perhaps less >>>informed than it should be. Maybe some of you could help me in >>>reflecting further. >>> >>>I should start by making certain my interpretation of the term "powers >that >>>be" is understood. It's a vague term, obviously. I welcome the input of >>>anyone who wants to develop or refute this definition. I define "powers >>that >>>be" not as government or government officials, but as the small minority >of >>>Americans in whose hands a great percentage of our overall wealth lies - >>>those who exert, through their contributions, hefty tax submissions, and >>>other persuasive powers, a tremendous deal of influence over policy >>>development at the federal level. >>> >>>I submit that the rights struggles Sally mentions (emancipation from >>slavery, >>>women's suffrage, civil rights), as well as others (unionization) won by >>the >>>people and (equal rights, draft resistance, etc.) not won by the people, >>>have come often at the end of decades of struggle and considerable >>bloodshed >>>- in large part because of the resistance to such infringements on the >>status >>>quo by the "powers that be". >>> >>>Yes, it is certainly true that such struggles might not have been waged >had >>>it not been for the flexibility of the Constitution (in particular the >Bill >>>of Rights, which as I remember was vigorously resisted by many framers of >>the >>>original document) which specifically protects the right to petition the >>>government). I would argue, however that it is also reasonable to think >>that >>>such drawn out, painful, violent struggles would not have been necessary >in >>a >>>truly inclusive democratic republic in which recognition of the dignity >and >>>worth of all humans was an operative concept, not a noble pursuit. >>> >>>I think it's critical that we frame our struggle for adequate funding and >>>public support of adult education as a pursuit of human empowerment (not >>>merely workforce enhancement) in this historical context. The original >>>framers of the Constitution brilliantly created a document which allows >for >>>amendment. Much can be found, however, in the original text and context >>>which suggests that their view of a democratic republic was not as >>inclusive >>>as it might have been. Untaxed Native Americans were not counted as >>people, >>>slaves were counted as three-fourths of a person, the voting public was >>>limited to white, property-owning men, neither the Senate nor the >>Presidency >>>were to be chosen by popular vote, and so on. Much was written in to >>secure >>>the powers of property owners (as a means, I would assume, of courting >>their >>>support of the document). >>> >>>>From that time forward, with few notable exceptions, the struggle for >>>democratic recognition on the part of the economically disenfranchised has >>>met with active resistance or inaction from the "powers that be" and the >>>political establishment. When emancipation threatened the economic >>>stability of southern plantations, blood was shed. When native nations >>stood >>>in the way of the seizure of land and raw materials for agriculture and >>>industry therein, blood was shed. When industrial-age workers - men, >women >>>and children - struggled to secure their safety in factories, where death >>and >>>debilitating injury went unregulated and generally unpunished, blood was >>>shed. When African Americans rose to assert their rights as equal >citizens >>>desiring equal economic opportunity, blood was shed. >>> >>>I would argue that this republic has long supported the interests of its >>most >>>economically advantaged citizens over the disadvantaged. Yes, much >>progress >>>toward a just society has been made. Yes, the most fundamental rights of >>the >>>greater part of our citizenry has been secured as the power of the vote >has >>>been more widely granted. But none of these rights have come without >>>struggle. None have come simply by virtue of the fact that they were >>>just, or that they favored equality over oppression and exploitation. >>> >>>The struggle for which we as educators all work, the struggle for an open, >>>more democratic process in which all people engage as enlightened >>>participants, must continue in the face of the resistance of these "powers >>>that be" whose aim appears to be (and to have been) the maintenance of a >>>status quo which fosters the economic growth for a prosperous few at the >>>expense of the health and well being of an increasingly economically >>unstable >>>many. Most recently, in my own experience, I have watched the economic >>>stability of the workers I serve and countless others like them erode at >>the >>>hands of new initiatives in business which serve to weaken the labor >market >>>at its lowest wage levels. >>> >>>In our dislocated worker program here in RI, people whose factories have >>been >>>bought and closed down by companies interested in securing tax write-offs >>at >>>the expense of the emotional and economic well being of tens and hundreds >>of >>>workers struggle to improve language and literacy skills in an effort to >>>market themselves. They study alongside those whose jobs have been >>stripped >>>by companies who seek to increase profit by contracting work to other >>nations >>>where labor is cheaper and more readily exploited. Too often, a return >to >>>the workforce for my students means an agreement with a temporary >>employment >>>agency - no security, no benefits. Usually, a return to work means a >>similar >>>type of position as previously held, with reduced pay, with reduced >>benefits >>>and plenty of overtime. Those who successfully go on to training >programs >>>often meet the same fate, as the jobs they train for do not exist in >>>sufficient numbers to support large influxes of inexperienced workers. >>> >>>Recently, one of our classes (an English GED class for advanced ESOL >>>learners) raised an angry voice against the emerging temporary worker >>market >>>in Rhode Island. When I mentioned the existence of the United Workers' >>>Committee, an organization run through Progreso Latino here in RI which >has >>>been working on pushing regulation at the legislative level, they >impressed >>>me with their forceful response - yes, they were very interested in being >>>visited by a committee member, and yes, they would be quite ready to call >>>and write their legislators in support of the committee's initiatives. >>Are >>>the "powers that be" - those profiting at both ends of this rapidly >growing >>>business in which full-time, long term human labor is actually rented - >>ready >>>for this? Moreover, are they ready for the checks and regulations against >>>contracting work to overseas slave camps at the expense of our own working >>>class which are bound to follow any successful effort to empower those >>>workers as citizens? >>> >>>Catherine King was right, by the way - if I remember correctly, she long >>ago >>>posted something along the lines of saying that we must struggle at all >>times >>>against indoctrination of our students to our own socio-political >concepts, >>>even as we judge those concepts to represent the noble pursuit of >>democracy. >>>The power to analyze and participate democratically must come from within. >>>When I'm teaching, I struggle against this all the time! When students >>>assert that they have no voice, when they admit that they are afraid to >try >>>to vote because they feel uninformed and lacking in the reading skills >>>necessary to inform themselves, when they articulate the belief that their >>>voice is powerless against the moneyed interests who dominate politics, I >>>struggle with this. I don't think it counts as serving my own agenda to >>>suggest that we as a class or as a program can work to develop our own >>>political voice, or that we have a civic responsibility to do so, but I'm >>not >>>sure. Perhaps someone would care to comment on this. >>> >>>Last, I grow increasingly concerned with what I hear from the field (not >>>necessarily on this listserv, but when I'm engaged in my own work around >>>standards/accountability, etc. here in RI) around the growing trend toward >>>identifying adult education more and more exclusively with workforce >>development >>>. i agree with many who've posted here that education should aim to do >>>much, much more than develop one's potential as a worker. Yet, more and >>>more, it seems the discussion is being framed in these terms and >>>practitioners don't seem to be rushing in to fight against this narrowing >>>trend. several of you have posted that there are certainly examples of >>>enlightened business people who understand and buy into the idea that >>>education's applications go beyond the workplace, which would suggest, >>>obviously, that many more are out there who see this or might be made to >>see >>>it. Naturally, I accept the business perspective that for them to buy >into >>>education they must be able to see returns on their investment. As >>>Merrifield suggests, we can work within a mutual accountability system, >in >>>which all of our needs and goals are recognized and respected. But why >>does >>>it seem that government policy insists that practice set the Workforce >>goals >>>and standards as a higher priority, with more clearly defined standards >for >>>accountability and much more rigidly defined requirements? Why does it >>seem >>>to me that these interests get placed far above all others? Even the >>>well-meaning EFF, with its aim of getting learner input into the >>development >>>of standards, drew its original questions from an external source and >>defines >>>(as far as I've seen, feel free to correct me) the learner solely in terms >>of >>>social roles with clear economic implications (where is the >>>"learner-as-artist/writer/philosopher/spiritual entity?). >>> >>>This post is getting unmanagably long and less focused, so I'll end it >>here... >>> >>>David Hayes >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > From lmcgrail at mindspring.com Wed Nov 17 07:10:23 1999 From: lmcgrail at mindspring.com (Loren McGrail) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 07:10:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: NLA Discussion: EFF & the underside of history Message-ID: <199911171241.HAA08869@europe.std.com> [Cross-posted from NIFL-ESL] Dear colleagues and friends, I would like to thank people for their responses to my posting about civic education or civic participation. I have heard from a few of you both on and off the list. There seems to be agreement that the citizenship/community role map should be used from EFF.The sourcebook from World Education will be a useful resource also. Martha has picked out another thread in my post which I would like to comment on question, and expand and that is the thread of "whose history?" She calls it "the underside of history" as in the the unofficial story,the history we are not told about or that is not highlighted in our children's textsbooks,the history of the people not just the history of white mean and major events.Howard Zinn's book A People's History of the US is a wonderful resource. And now there is a revised edition. My daughter and I are actually using it right now to gather information about US involvement in Central America for a history report she has to do for school. Her history book doesn't talk about how US military aid was or has been used to support military dictatorships or how we have trained and continue to train soldiers from Latin America to assassinate,torture,and maim civilians at the School of the Americas (SOAs). We had to go to other sources---a Latin American history professor at UNC Chapel Hill, a former soldier stationed at the emmbassy, and her own step father who left EL Salvador after Oscar Romero was murdered and he feared for his own holy life. >From the facts she has gathered and the stories she has heard,she has pleaded with me to be allowed to go to the Vigil this weekend at the SOA to close it down. She understands why people with conscience like Pastors for Peace want to close this source of human rights abuse. She knows her history from both sides now and wants to voice her concern along with thousands of others including the Pastors in our community. As a child of the 60s and 70s, I am proud of her conviction but it is difficult to sit there night after night trying to explain how and why our democractic governement supports such activities and it is difficult for Luis to have to keep reliving the nightmare and face the extraordinary contradiction of finding asslym and amnesty in the same country that supported such flagrant abuse. So what's the point of this long story? What does my daughter's history report and now desire to "take action" at the ripe age of 13 have to do with teaching the "underside of history?" and what does one political refugee's exile and now nightly nightmares have to do with teaching what really happened? How does it work when you have lived the experience like Luis or the thousands of Southeast Asian refugees who have resettled here in this country? I ask these questions seriously and earnestly because to tell the underside or the otherside requires both knowledge and skills on our part as educators.We have to come to terms with the sometimes bloody contradictions.Books like Zinn's History or Dangerous Memories: Invasion and Resistiatnce since 1942 do give you another perspective. An easier to read format or simplified language would help get the message out but there is still the message or the historical facts that are unsettling at best. I am interested in hearing other people's perspectives about this teaching of the underside and how it connects or doesn't to EFF. I am interested in discussing with people the best way to go down this road.I think we need each other's advice, recommendations and support. Loren McGrail -- Loren McGrail Executive Director, Literary South lmcgrail at mindspring.com www.literacysouth.org From arthur at ellijay.com Thu Nov 18 12:10:53 1999 From: arthur at ellijay.com (Art LaChance) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 09:10:53 -0800 Subject: NLA Discussion: EFF and the Spiritual/Creative Aspect Message-ID: <199911171536.KAA06404@europe.std.com> Sue, Interesting conversation. Very often I see my role as an adult educator that of restoring the student's sense of self. And therefore directly related to the "quality" of spirituality. All too often the student's lack of success within the community brings forth rejection in varying degrees from the community and they lose their true identification. I think we come as a complete package and to me it's not rational to think that we can separate the qualities and only be responsible for one or two. I find it infinitely easier to help a student if I can restore some of the confidence and strength of spirit first. Art Sue Barton wrote: > > Rich, > > I agree that the creative side of an individual is important. The question > is what is the role of adult education in a person's life? The role of the > church and the community is one of nurturing the spiritual /creative side of > an individual. These qualities can then be incorporated (Webster = to > combine or join with something already formed; not exclusively a business > term) into the curriculum. No one would advocate excluding the creative > side of an individual out of the classroom but creativity and spirituality > are not roles. They are qualities. EFF focuses on the role of the adult as > they function in the family, on the job and in the community. > > SUE > > -----Original Message----- > From: rkrawiec at mindspring.com > To: nla at world.std.com > Date: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 10:57 PM > Subject: NLA Discussion: EFF and the Spiritual/Creative Aspect > > > > >Sue; > > > >I disagree strongly with your contention that the spiritual/creative side > of > >an individual is 'incorporated' (another business word, by the way) into > >the 3 roles set forth in the EFF framework. A person's spiritual/creative > >aspect is something that should be developed for its own sake. While you > >can certainly 'use' these parts of your personality on the job, at home, > >or in your community, their value is not dependent on their utility. We > >should be teaching people to develop these aspects not because they can > >apply them elsewhere, but because creativity is a value in itself. We can > >teach people 'skills' they can use in other venues without helping them > >develop theircreative/spiritual side. Or we can help people develop their > >creativity, and then they will become better parents/workers/community > >members. > > > >Prehistoric people didn't etch pictures of the hunt on cave walls because > it > >would help them get a job, or learn how to discipline their children in > >positive ways. They did it to communicate their vision of life to others, > >to tell a 'story', > > > >Rich > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Sue Barton > >To: nla at world.std.com > >Date: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 5:59 PM > >Subject: NLA Discussion: The Powers that Be From Rsrchjoey at aol.com Wed Nov 17 09:31:56 1999 From: Rsrchjoey at aol.com (Rsrchjoey at aol.com) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 09:31:56 EST Subject: NLA Discussion:Capitalism is a working system, people are irrational Message-ID: <199911171541.KAA07368@europe.std.com> Catherine King writes: > However, the lack of moral "enlightenment" in those six-chimney > homes, and the quiet avoidance in our corporate boardrooms, should not go > unremarked. Where creating a working economy is part of our success,this > quiet greed is a big part of our failure. I think we ought to refrain from broad over-generalizations based on "symbols". Just because someone lives in a "six-chimney home" does not mean that they lack "moral enlightenment". Indeed, it is often those same people who disproportionately fund and tirelessly work for social causes. I cannot speak with the same conviction for many corporations, but I know there are those that have wonderful policies and programs which benefit those less fortunate. Jo Ann Doino-Ingersoll Strategic Research Mahwah, NJ RsrchJoey at aol.com From cbking2 at flash.net Wed Nov 17 10:42:04 1999 From: cbking2 at flash.net (cbking2) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 09:42:04 -0600 Subject: NLA Discussion: The Powers that Be Message-ID: <199911171543.KAA07773@europe.std.com> To the Group: Sue Barton's reflective comments included the paragraph: "Lastly David does mention EFF and sees a part of the human function omitted from the EFF framework. My contention is that the spiritual, creative side of an individual is incorporated into all three of the roles of an adult in this society. Therefore when adult ed address these three roles, the teacher uses methods that call the student's attention to a better understandiing of himself as well as increasing his knowledge base towards functioning within this society." EFF IS definitely a step forward; however, Ms. Barton's note shows clearly where EFF does not go far enough, and where its role map falls short. My question is this: Where is the "ROLE" of a "better self understanding," and aren't these all developments of who we are, and who we choose to be," rather than merely "roles?" Ms. Barton says that the "spiritual, creative side of an individual is incorporated into all three of the roles of an adult in this society." This is true, but so could it be said that someone's economy or education is always a part of the others, including the creative process if IT were a "role." There is nothing wrong with this. Rather it speaks to the rightly understood distinctions and separations in the culture, while at the same time recognizing the integrity of the individual who is ALL of these things, and out of which the distinctions emerge. Also, if the creative, spiritual self is an important part of our existence and development and is really a core part of what happens in someone's lifelong education process, why would it NOT be mentioned in a theoretical piece supposedly depicting the representation of the core structural needs of an individual in society? Are we afraid to say in a secular culture, and in a very broad sense, that all people ask the questions of whether our lives are ultimately creative and worthwhile, or that we all seek some kind of deeper meaning to life in general? Do we think recognizing the fullness of the human quest as a part of education is the same thing as prosetlyzation? Mis Barton says teachers speak to these areas of human existence even though they are not explicitly a part of the plan; but isn't this putting creativity, the centerpiece of education, in a covert stance? If this quest is NOT a part of a structured piece that claims to flow from an understanding of what education is fully about, aren't we giving the impression that the "powers that be" do not REALLY think this is an important part of the student's educational development? And why are we implying that students are somehow going outside of accepted community and cultural norms to develop in these areas? Perhaps we are touching on WHY education seems so drained of meaning in this secular culture, not only to adults but to children as well? Again, to recognize the full gamut of someone's questions is not the same thing as the patriarchic government spouting religious doctrines, or telling people we MUST do anything, any more than the map says we MUST become a worker. It's not even a fine line to walk. It just says we already do this, like being a family member and a member of the community, and that education speaks to a personal self-driven development centered around "self-understanding." Actually, the difference between "dead-end" jobs and a "profession" is exactly this developed creativity where someone looks forward to doing their chosen work. So "worker" may well be a "role," but creativity, more directly, lies behind the role as intrinsic to what it means to be a person. So we MUST ask, "What are we doing by NOT recognizing, in our stated premises in a document of education, this creative and spiritual quest?" In criticizing EFF, however, I am not complimenting or endorsing what stands now as an inadequate expression of government power. We can do much better. Catherine King > -----Original Message----- > From: nla-approval at world.std.com [mailto:nla-approval at world.std.com]On > Behalf Of Sue Barton > Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 8:07 AM > To: nla at world.std.com > Subject: NLA Discussion: The Powers that Be > > > > Dear Group > > I think that the "powers that be" are any one of many individuals who make > decisions concerning activities that we as educators might be involved in > ...whether they be local, state or national. > > David Hayes alluded to human empowerment as the reason why we > educate and I > think that is so true..EFF (Equipped for the Future Initiative) > is one such > philosophical methodology to do just that. The student is > empowered through > access, voice, independent action, and building bridges to the > future. One > of the roles that our students have as a citizen but one which is > underused, > in my opinion, is the role of citizen..and students should very definately > be shown how this role works. They need to find out for > themselves how they > want to participate in it , but we as adult educators should > teach them what > their options are. > > It is funny that David should also mention EFF's worker role in his > discussion. The second EFF role is the worker role. Adult > education should > be equally concerned about this role but not at the exclusion of the other > two roles (citizen and family). > > Lastly David does mention EFF and sees a part of the human > function omitted > from the EFF framework. My contention is that the spiritual, > creative side > of an individual is incorporated into all three of the roles of > an adult in > this society. Therefore when adult ed address these three roles, the > teacher uses methods that call the student's attention to a better > understandiing of himself as well as increasing his knowledge base towards > functioning within this society. > > We must ask ourselves, why are adults needing our assistance? I see it as > that they have a skill need or some other need that will help > them to better > their life. > > Sue Barton > New River Community College > -----Original Message----- > From: PDRNRI at aol.com > To: nla at world.std.com > Date: Sunday, November 14, 1999 6:52 PM > Subject: NLA Discussion: The Powers that Be > > > > > >Let me begin this post by saying that as a relative newcomer to > the field, > >especially to administrative work and policy issues, this > listserv has done > a > >wonderful job of educating me to the issues, needs, and > directions in adult > >ed policy-making. I'm looking forward especially to the > exchange with Ron > >Pugsley, and have particularly enjoyed reading and reflecting upon > Catherine > >King's series of posts concerning facilitation of participation in the > >democratic process. I think as the time for this sharing of > questions and > >views with Mr. Pugsley approaches, it is especially important to be > thinking > >in this context. > > > >I'd like to comment briefly on a couple of recent posts by Sally Gabb, > >address the issue of providing a historical context for our struggle for > >adequate support for an adult education which serves to strengthen the > >democratic process, add an anecdote from my own class' experience, and > close > >with some questions I'd like help with. > > > >Sally pointed out in her post last week that class size was an issue of > >resource distribution. She asked if, in our opinions, the > "powers that be" > >were ready for the people we serve to become full participants in the > >"democratic" (her quotes) process. I submitted that it was my opinion > >that they are not, no more than they have ever been. I've often > >wondered if my perspective is too naive, too cynical, perhaps less > >informed than it should be. Maybe some of you could help me in > >reflecting further. > > > >I should start by making certain my interpretation of the term > "powers that > >be" is understood. It's a vague term, obviously. I welcome the input of > >anyone who wants to develop or refute this definition. I define "powers > that > >be" not as government or government officials, but as the small > minority of > >Americans in whose hands a great percentage of our overall wealth lies - > >those who exert, through their contributions, hefty tax submissions, and > >other persuasive powers, a tremendous deal of influence over policy > >development at the federal level. > > > >I submit that the rights struggles Sally mentions (emancipation from > slavery, > >women's suffrage, civil rights), as well as others (unionization) won by > the > >people and (equal rights, draft resistance, etc.) not won by the people, > >have come often at the end of decades of struggle and considerable > bloodshed > >- in large part because of the resistance to such infringements on the > status > >quo by the "powers that be". > > > >Yes, it is certainly true that such struggles might not have > been waged had > >it not been for the flexibility of the Constitution (in > particular the Bill > >of Rights, which as I remember was vigorously resisted by many framers of > the > >original document) which specifically protects the right to petition the > >government). I would argue, however that it is also reasonable to think > that > >such drawn out, painful, violent struggles would not have been > necessary in > a > >truly inclusive democratic republic in which recognition of the > dignity and > >worth of all humans was an operative concept, not a noble pursuit. > > > >I think it's critical that we frame our struggle for adequate funding and > >public support of adult education as a pursuit of human empowerment (not > >merely workforce enhancement) in this historical context. The original > >framers of the Constitution brilliantly created a document which > allows for > >amendment. Much can be found, however, in the original text and context > >which suggests that their view of a democratic republic was not as > inclusive > >as it might have been. Untaxed Native Americans were not counted as > people, > >slaves were counted as three-fourths of a person, the voting public was > >limited to white, property-owning men, neither the Senate nor the > Presidency > >were to be chosen by popular vote, and so on. Much was written in to > secure > >the powers of property owners (as a means, I would assume, of courting > their > >support of the document). > > > >>From that time forward, with few notable exceptions, the struggle for > >democratic recognition on the part of the economically > disenfranchised has > >met with active resistance or inaction from the "powers that be" and the > >political establishment. When emancipation threatened the economic > >stability of southern plantations, blood was shed. When native nations > stood > >in the way of the seizure of land and raw materials for agriculture and > >industry therein, blood was shed. When industrial-age workers - > men, women > >and children - struggled to secure their safety in factories, where death > and > >debilitating injury went unregulated and generally unpunished, blood was > >shed. When African Americans rose to assert their rights as > equal citizens > >desiring equal economic opportunity, blood was shed. > > > >I would argue that this republic has long supported the interests of its > most > >economically advantaged citizens over the disadvantaged. Yes, much > progress > >toward a just society has been made. Yes, the most fundamental rights of > the > >greater part of our citizenry has been secured as the power of > the vote has > >been more widely granted. But none of these rights have come without > >struggle. None have come simply by virtue of the fact that they were > >just, or that they favored equality over oppression and exploitation. > > > >The struggle for which we as educators all work, the struggle > for an open, > >more democratic process in which all people engage as enlightened > >participants, must continue in the face of the resistance of > these "powers > >that be" whose aim appears to be (and to have been) the maintenance of a > >status quo which fosters the economic growth for a prosperous few at the > >expense of the health and well being of an increasingly economically > unstable > >many. Most recently, in my own experience, I have watched the economic > >stability of the workers I serve and countless others like them erode at > the > >hands of new initiatives in business which serve to weaken the > labor market > >at its lowest wage levels. > > > >In our dislocated worker program here in RI, people whose factories have > been > >bought and closed down by companies interested in securing tax write-offs > at > >the expense of the emotional and economic well being of tens and hundreds > of > >workers struggle to improve language and literacy skills in an effort to > >market themselves. They study alongside those whose jobs have been > stripped > >by companies who seek to increase profit by contracting work to other > nations > >where labor is cheaper and more readily exploited. Too often, > a return to > >the workforce for my students means an agreement with a temporary > employment > >agency - no security, no benefits. Usually, a return to work means a > similar > >type of position as previously held, with reduced pay, with reduced > benefits > >and plenty of overtime. Those who successfully go on to > training programs > >often meet the same fate, as the jobs they train for do not exist in > >sufficient numbers to support large influxes of inexperienced workers. > > > >Recently, one of our classes (an English GED class for advanced ESOL > >learners) raised an angry voice against the emerging temporary worker > market > >in Rhode Island. When I mentioned the existence of the United Workers' > >Committee, an organization run through Progreso Latino here in > RI which has > >been working on pushing regulation at the legislative level, > they impressed > >me with their forceful response - yes, they were very interested in being > >visited by a committee member, and yes, they would be quite ready to call > >and write their legislators in support of the committee's initiatives. > Are > >the "powers that be" - those profiting at both ends of this > rapidly growing > >business in which full-time, long term human labor is actually rented - > ready > >for this? Moreover, are they ready for the checks and > regulations against > >contracting work to overseas slave camps at the expense of our > own working > >class which are bound to follow any successful effort to empower those > >workers as citizens? > > > >Catherine King was right, by the way - if I remember correctly, she long > ago > >posted something along the lines of saying that we must struggle at all > times > >against indoctrination of our students to our own > socio-political concepts, > >even as we judge those concepts to represent the noble pursuit of > democracy. > >The power to analyze and participate democratically must come > from within. > >When I'm teaching, I struggle against this all the time! When students > >assert that they have no voice, when they admit that they are > afraid to try > >to vote because they feel uninformed and lacking in the reading skills > >necessary to inform themselves, when they articulate the belief > that their > >voice is powerless against the moneyed interests who dominate politics, I > >struggle with this. I don't think it counts as serving my own agenda to > >suggest that we as a class or as a program can work to develop our own > >political voice, or that we have a civic responsibility to do so, but I'm > not > >sure. Perhaps someone would care to comment on this. > > > >Last, I grow increasingly concerned with what I hear from the field (not > >necessarily on this listserv, but when I'm engaged in my own work around > >standards/accountability, etc. here in RI) around the growing > trend toward > >identifying adult education more and more exclusively with workforce > development > >. i agree with many who've posted here that education should aim to do > >much, much more than develop one's potential as a worker. Yet, more and > >more, it seems the discussion is being framed in these terms and > >practitioners don't seem to be rushing in to fight against this narrowing > >trend. several of you have posted that there are certainly examples of > >enlightened business people who understand and buy into the idea that > >education's applications go beyond the workplace, which would suggest, > >obviously, that many more are out there who see this or might be made to > see > >it. Naturally, I accept the business perspective that for them > to buy into > >education they must be able to see returns on their investment. As > >Merrifield suggests, we can work within a mutual accountability > system, in > >which all of our needs and goals are recognized and respected. But why > does > >it seem that government policy insists that practice set the Workforce > goals > >and standards as a higher priority, with more clearly defined > standards for > >accountability and much more rigidly defined requirements? Why does it > seem > >to me that these interests get placed far above all others? Even the > >well-meaning EFF, with its aim of getting learner input into the > development > >of standards, drew its original questions from an external source and > defines > >(as far as I've seen, feel free to correct me) the learner > solely in terms > of > >social roles with clear economic implications (where is the > >"learner-as-artist/writer/philosopher/spiritual entity?). > > > >This post is getting unmanagably long and less focused, so I'll end it > here... > > > >David Hayes > > > > > > > > > > > > > From AWilder106 at aol.com Wed Nov 17 09:48:27 1999 From: AWilder106 at aol.com (AWilder106 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 09:48:27 EST Subject: NLA Discussion: voc training the sole purpose of adult ed? Message-ID: <199911171545.KAA08238@europe.std.com> Debby: Excellent point. You show how the system works. Thanks for pulling together your observations, about how we taxpayers are actually supporting an unequal system. Andrea From DJRosen at world.std.com Wed Nov 17 11:08:05 1999 From: DJRosen at world.std.com (David J Rosen) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 11:08:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: NLA etiquette Message-ID: <199911171635.LAA17733@europe.std.com> NLA Colleagues, When you reply to a message on the NLA list, if possible please quote the part of the message you are replying to rather than the whole message. Please make it clear whose message you are replying to (first and last name, since several of us have the same first names.) Also, please put your name at the end of the message as some subscribers do not get _message from_ headers. Thanks. These extra efforts will make it easier for those who receive your messages to read and understand them. David J. Rosen NLA List Moderator From rkrawiec at mindspring.com Wed Nov 17 12:51:09 1999 From: rkrawiec at mindspring.com (rkrawiec at mindspring.com) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 12:51:09 -0500 Subject: NLA Discussion:Capitalism is a working system, people are irrational Message-ID: <199911171811.NAA04469@europe.std.com> >, it is often those same people >who disproportionately fund and tirelessly work for social causes. Actually, every study I've seen on giving shows that the people with the least money give the highest percentage to charitable causes, and the people with the largest incomes give the smallest percentage, and what they do contribute often goes, at least in the arts, to support orchestras, art museums, i.e. institutions that traditionally serve upper income people, those like themselves. rk -----Original Message----- From: Rsrchjoey at aol.com To: nla at world.std.com Date: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 10:41 AM Subject: NLA Discussion:Capitalism is a working system, people are irrational > >Catherine King writes: > >> However, the lack of moral "enlightenment" in those six-chimney >> homes, and the quiet avoidance in our corporate boardrooms, should not go >> unremarked. Where creating a working economy is part of our success,this >> quiet greed is a big part of our failure. > >I think we ought to refrain from broad over-generalizations based on >"symbols". Just because someone lives in a "six-chimney home" does not mean >that they lack "moral enlightenment". Indeed, it is often those same people >who disproportionately fund and tirelessly work for social causes. I cannot >speak with the same conviction for many corporations, but I know there are >those that have wonderful policies and programs which benefit those less >fortunate. > >Jo Ann Doino-Ingersoll >Strategic Research >Mahwah, NJ >RsrchJoey at aol.com > From David_Baker at ccmail.wiu.edu Wed Nov 17 14:23:50 1999 From: David_Baker at ccmail.wiu.edu (David Baker) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 13:23:50 -0600 Subject: NLA Discussion:Capitalism is a working system, people ar Message-ID: <199911172047.PAA03113@europe.std.com> To maybe add a voice for those dirty rotten capatilist of whom we think have no conscience, the vast majority of those people in the six chimney houses earned that money themselves by taking uncertain risk in the capitalist society and deserve to be able to spend that money any way that they like. Certainly, I would like to see them spend more on altruistic causes, but I certainly am not going to turn up my nose at them in some psuedo-socialist stance chiding them for not giving that money to these causes. _______________________ Reply Separator _______________________ Subject: NLA Discussion:Capitalism is a working system, people are ir Author: nla at europe.std.com at Internet Date: 11/17/99 12:51 PM >, it is often those same people >who disproportionately fund and tirelessly work for social causes. Actually, every study I've seen on giving shows that the people with the least money give the highest percentage to charitable causes, and the people with the largest incomes give the smallest percentage, and what they do contribute often goes, at least in the arts, to support orchestras, art museums, i.e. institutions that traditionally serve upper income people, those like themselves. rk -----Original Message----- From: Rsrchjoey at aol.com To: nla at world.std.com Date: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 10:41 AM Subject: NLA Discussion:Capitalism is a working system, people are irrational > >Catherine King writes: > >> However, the lack of moral "enlightenment" in those six-chimney >> homes, and the quiet avoidance in our corporate boardrooms, should not go >> unremarked. Where creating a working economy is part of our success,this >> quiet greed is a big part of our failure. > >I think we ought to refrain from broad over-generalizations based on >"symbols". Just because someone lives in a "six-chimney home" does not mean >that they lack "moral enlightenment". Indeed, it is often those same people >who disproportionately fund and tirelessly work for social causes. I cannot >speak with the same conviction for many corporations, but I know there are >those that have wonderful policies and programs which benefit those less >fortunate. > >Jo Ann Doino-Ingersoll >Strategic Research >Mahwah, NJ >RsrchJoey at aol.com > From AndresM at epcc.edu Wed Nov 17 16:52:40 1999 From: AndresM at epcc.edu (Andres Muro) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 14:52:40 -0700 Subject: NLA Discussion:Capitalism is a working system, people are irrational Message-ID: <199911172257.RAA02025@europe.std.com> In addition, a lot of wealthy people that give to charity do it to get a break on their taxes. Andres >>> 11/17 11:12 am >>> >, it is often those same people >who disproportionately fund and tirelessly work for social causes. Actually, every study I've seen on giving shows that the people with the least money give the highest percentage to charitable causes, and the people with the largest incomes give the smallest percentage, and what they do contribute often goes, at least in the arts, to support orchestras, art museums, i.e. institutions that traditionally serve upper income people, those like themselves. rk -----Original Message----- From: Rsrchjoey at aol.com To: nla at world.std.com Date: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 10:41 AM Subject: NLA Discussion:Capitalism is a working system, people are irrational > >Catherine King writes: > >> However, the lack of moral "enlightenment" in those six-chimney >> homes, and the quiet avoidance in our corporate boardrooms, should not go >> unremarked. Where creating a working economy is part of our success,this >> quiet greed is a big part of our failure. > >I think we ought to refrain from broad over-generalizations based on >"symbols". Just because someone lives in a "six-chimney home" does not mean >that they lack "moral enlightenment". Indeed, it is often those same people >who disproportionately fund and tirelessly work for social causes. I cannot >speak with the same conviction for many corporations, but I know there are >those that have wonderful policies and programs which benefit those less >fortunate. > >Jo Ann Doino-Ingersoll >Strategic Research >Mahwah, NJ >RsrchJoey at aol.com > From DJRosen at world.std.com Wed Nov 17 19:01:18 1999 From: DJRosen at world.std.com (DJRosen at world.std.com) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 18:01:18 -0600 Subject: NLA Info: Thursday Notes, 11/18/99 Message-ID: <199911180258.VAA17797@europe.std.com> [Cross-posted from library-lit] >From the Desk of Ronald S. Pugsley, Director, DAEL Office of Vocational and Adult Education Editor: Sarah Newcomb Production: Rose Tilghman November 18, 1999 ___________________________________ Appropriators May Increase Adult Ed; Fund EL/Civics At press time, it appears that the House and Senate may agree to increase the adult education state grants program and provide some funding for a version of On Common Ground, the Administration's English literacy/civics initiative. Discussions between the Administration and Congress are ongoing concerning a proposed across-the-board reduction in federal agency funding that Congress wants to include in the FY 2000 Labor-HHS-Education appropriations bill. ESL Enrollment Leads Adult Ed for Third Year English literacy (ESL) is the nation's largest adult education program for the third consecutive year, states report. ESL outpaced adult basic education and adult secondary education in enrollment in 1995-96. ESL far exceeded enrollment in other adult education programs in 1996-97 and again in 1997-98, the most recent year for which data is available. Mirroring a national trend, 44 percent fewer adult education students obtained citizenship and 10 percent fewer registered to vote in 1997-98 than in 1996-1997, according to state reports. See Citizenship Rates Lowest This Century in 10/21/99 issue. McNeil Meets with New State Directors Assistant Secretary Patricia W. McNeil took questions from the new State Directors group during an open forum November 17 as part of the New State Directors Management Workshop. Highlights of November 18's schedule include presentations by three current State directors: Shirley Spencer (ID); Lennox McClendon (VA); and Fran Tracy-Mumford (DE). Also presenting were NAEPDC executive director Judy Koloski and researcher Judy Alamprese. Sixteen new state directors and staff participated. ED Gets New Deputy Secretary President Clinton will nominate Frank S. Holleman, III of Greenville, South Carolina to succeed Mike Smith as Deputy Secretary of Education. The Deputy Secretary is chief operating officer of the Department and principal advisor to the Secretary on program policies and budget. Smith is returning to his teaching career at Stanford. Holleman served as Secretary Riley's Chief of Staff at the Department from 1994-1998. He holds a Bachelor's degree from Furman University, a Juris Doctor degree from Harvard Law School and a Master of Science degree from the London School of Economics and Political Science. Holleman has been a gubernatorial appointee in a variety of State capacities related to education and sits on a number of advisory boards. Iowa Masters MOUs Stumped by development of memoranda of understanding? Iowa may have the answer in the form of new WIA Title II guidelines for MOUs for local programs. Check them out at http://www.readiowa.org then click on "What's New" and go to "Title II Memorandum of Understanding Guidelines." News tip by John Hartwig. ____________________________________________________________ A Fact Sheet from the Division of Adult Education and Literacy Office of Vocational and Adult Education OVAE Homepage http://www.ed.gov/offices/OVAE/ From DJRosen at world.std.com Wed Nov 17 18:56:37 1999 From: DJRosen at world.std.com (DJRosen at world.std.com) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 18:56:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: NLA Info: English Literacy and Civics RFP info from ED Message-ID: <199911180307.WAA19021@europe.std.com> [Cross-posted from NIFL-ESL] The Federal Register printed the English Literacy and Civics Education Notice and Application today November 17, 1999, The following URL will allow you to access it in either a text or PDF format. http://www.gpo.gov/su_docs/aces/fr-cont.html Rebecca Rebecca J. Moak, Ph.D. Educational Specialist Office of Vocational and Adult Education From scelza at earthlink.net Wed Nov 17 20:12:36 1999 From: scelza at earthlink.net (Matthew Scelza) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 17:12:36 -0800 Subject: NLA Discussion:Capitalism is a working system, people are irrational Message-ID: <199911180309.WAA19239@europe.std.com> And let's not forget that the majority (70%) of the rich inherit their wealth. The self-made millionaire is a nice story, but a minority truth. Peace, Matthew Andres Muro wrote: > In addition, a lot of wealthy people that give to charity do it to get a > break on their taxes. > > Andres > > >>> 11/17 11:12 am >>> > > >, it is often those same people > >who disproportionately fund and tirelessly work for social causes. > > Actually, every study I've seen on giving shows that the people with the > least money give the highest percentage to charitable causes, and the people > with the largest incomes give the smallest percentage, and what they do > contribute often goes, at least in the arts, to support orchestras, art > museums, i.e. institutions that traditionally serve upper income people, > those like themselves. > rk > -----Original Message----- > From: Rsrchjoey at aol.com > To: nla at world.std.com > Date: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 10:41 AM > Subject: NLA Discussion:Capitalism is a working system, people are > irrational > > > > >Catherine King writes: > > > >> However, the lack of moral "enlightenment" in those six-chimney > >> homes, and the quiet avoidance in our corporate boardrooms, should not go > >> unremarked. Where creating a working economy is part of our > success,this > >> quiet greed is a big part of our failure. > > > >I think we ought to refrain from broad over-generalizations based on > >"symbols". Just because someone lives in a "six-chimney home" does not > mean > >that they lack "moral enlightenment". Indeed, it is often those same > people > >who disproportionately fund and tirelessly work for social causes. I > cannot > >speak with the same conviction for many corporations, but I know there are > >those that have wonderful policies and programs which benefit those less > >fortunate. > > > >Jo Ann Doino-Ingersoll > >Strategic Research > >Mahwah, NJ > >RsrchJoey at aol.com > > From rkrawiec at mindspring.com Wed Nov 17 21:11:36 1999 From: rkrawiec at mindspring.com (rkrawiec at mindspring.com) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 21:11:36 -0500 Subject: NLA Discussion:Capitalism is a working system, people are... Message-ID: <199911180310.WAA19334@europe.std.com> How's that go? ARISE,YOU PRISONERS OF OPPRESSION! Actually, not everyone who is critical of capitalism comes at it from a 'psuedo-socialist' perspective. There's a long deep history of anti-capitalism in Buddhist and Christian communities. If I remember correctly, even the Catholic pope condemned capitalism and marxism as co-equal evils. rk -----Original Message----- From: David Baker To: nla at world.std.com Date: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 3:47 PM Subject: NLA Discussion:Capitalism is a working system, people ar > >To maybe add a voice for those dirty rotten capatilist of whom we think have no conscience, the vast majority of those people in the six chimney houses earned that money themselves by taking uncertain risk in the capitalist society and deserve to be able to spend that money any way that they like. Certainly, I would like to see them spend more on altruistic causes, but I certainly am not going to turn up my nose at them in some psuedo-socialist stance chiding them for not giving that money to these causes. > >_______________________ Reply Separator _______________________ > >Subject: NLA Discussion:Capitalism is a working system, people are ir >Author: nla at europe.std.com at Internet >Date: 11/17/99 12:51 PM > > >>, it is often those same people >>who disproportionately fund and tirelessly work for social causes. > >Actually, every study I've seen on giving shows that the people with the >least money give the highest percentage to charitable causes, and the people >with the largest incomes give the smallest percentage, and what they do >contribute often goes, at least in the arts, to support orchestras, art >museums, i.e. institutions that traditionally serve upper income people, >those like themselves. >rk >-----Original Message----- >From: Rsrchjoey at aol.com >To: nla at world.std.com >Date: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 10:41 AM >Subject: NLA Discussion:Capitalism is a working system, people are >irrational > > >> >>Catherine King writes: >> >>> However, the lack of moral "enlightenment" in those six-chimney >>> homes, and the quiet avoidance in our corporate boardrooms, should not go >>> unremarked. Where creating a working economy is part of our >success,this >>> quiet greed is a big part of our failure. >> >>I think we ought to refrain from broad over-generalizations based on >>"symbols". Just because someone lives in a "six-chimney home" does not >mean >>that they lack "moral enlightenment". Indeed, it is often those same >people >>who disproportionately fund and tirelessly work for social causes. I >cannot >>speak with the same conviction for many corporations, but I know there are >>those that have wonderful policies and programs which benefit those less >>fortunate. >> >>Jo Ann Doino-Ingersoll >>Strategic Research >>Mahwah, NJ >>RsrchJoey at aol.com >> > > > > From PDRNRI at aol.com Thu Nov 18 07:14:15 1999 From: PDRNRI at aol.com (PDRNRI at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 07:14:15 EST Subject: NLA Discussion: EFF and the Spiritual/Creative Aspect Message-ID: <199911181306.IAA20799@europe.std.com> Hello, everyone - I'm glad to see so many of us have picked up on my EFF - related question "where is the learner as artist/writer/philosopher/spiritualy entity?" I find myself aligning with Art's ideas. In my dislocated worker program, students arrive having been dealt a severe blow to their self-image. They are often severely depressed and anxious, speaking of uncertainty about self and future and putting down their own intellectual skills. It's my feeling that an important part of my work involves restoring my students' inner strength. With all due repect to Sue Barton's opinion, I believe the adult ed classroom is a valid place for spiritual/inner development because this type of developmentis a critical part of developing the student's ability to strengthen her/himself as learner/parent/civic participant. As such, it warrants serious consideration in EFF or any other type adult ed framework. I've approached this somewhat tentatively, as for many of my students the type of inward turning that may facilitate such a strengthening involves deeply held spiritual beliefs. Over time, though, i think I've been building an approach that recognizes, respects, and values those beliefs without proselytizing. Through informal dialogues, my students encourage one another and are encouraged to discover and nurture their inner sources of strength. Our classroom community is truly a remarkable place. The students are like family to one another - they become sources of strength for one another as well. My feeling is that through this compassion and openness that develops between them, a comfort level is reached in which students become less afraid to make mistakes, less afraid to withhold questions, and better able to validate one another's feelings and experiences. Thorugh my own life's experience, I have learned that when one has no external source of validation, one's sense of self-worth can quickly become lost. It is a horrible, desperate feeling. For me, the journey within gradually became the way out. For my students, the shared experience of a journey within becomes a springboard to the realization that one's identity needn't be lost when that thing with which one identifies oneself is lost. Teaching students to find inner resources of strength and renewal enables skill building in the EFF roles. What's more, I might argue that spiritual entity is indeed a role, whether it is played out publicly (in which case it may be incorporated into one of the external, economy-connected roles EFF speaks of), or privately (in which case it isn't). All of us have relationships to our own concept of self - we all have some view of self, and we all have internal dialogue. In short, we interact with ourselves. David Hayes From AWilder106 at aol.com Thu Nov 18 08:49:34 1999 From: AWilder106 at aol.com (AWilder106 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 08:49:34 EST Subject: NLA Discussion:Capitalism is a working system, people are irrational Message-ID: <199911181425.JAA02430@europe.std.com> Matthew and others, Please define and clarify what you mean by "capitalism." Are you talking about what is owned by whom? Are you talking about a system of government, and what does that look like? Are you talking about a free market? Which we don't have, by the way, look at the recent Microsoft decision. In a free market people trade without regulation. Are you talking about ruling by elites? I'm willing to get on a bandwagon, here, but the vocabulary and hence the concepts might be cleared up. Is this possible? Or is the language too set? Andrea From sbarton at i-plus.net Thu Nov 18 09:01:17 1999 From: sbarton at i-plus.net (Sue Barton) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 09:01:17 -0500 Subject: NLA: Message-ID: <199911181442.JAA05303@europe.std.com> Dear Group, Art and Dave have made statements like the following one: >In my dislocated worker program, students arrive having been dealt a >severe blow to their self-image. They are often severely depressed and >anxious, speaking of uncertainty about self and future and putting down >their own intellectual skills. It's my feeling that an important part of >my work involves restoring my students' inner strength. I, quite frankly, don't feel qualified to be a councelor or psychiatrist. As I said we should encorporate within our learning activities those group dynamics which will help to increase a person's self confidence. But to put a whole component in adult education called self/spiritual/creative is not adult ed's function. People obviously are deficient in those qualities...but my question is are we the source for their strength. I say NOT. I have seen many people gain self esteem in my classes because of my caring nature and my attention to them...but I was not teaching those qualities, I was exhibiting them in my behavior. Dave talks about this service of providing inner strength as "an approach." And I think he is entirely correct. It is an approach, a delivery...not an element of curriculum...some form of knowledge to impart. It is example.....something that a good teacher will already be using to reach students. There is a perfect example in a neighboring program of a teacher whose personality ministers to the alternative education students with whom she is teaching. Not everyone is internally equipped to handle that tough crowd. She does it naturally and should be commended. Sue Barton Dublin, VA Sue C. Barton AffilE8ted sbarton at i-plus.net Radford, VA 24141 From pcoleman at dtae.org Thu Nov 18 09:08:49 1999 From: pcoleman at dtae.org (Coleman, Preston) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 09:08:49 -0500 Subject: NLA Discussion: Capitalism a working system, people irrational Message-ID: <199911181446.JAA05957@europe.std.com> While I agree that capitalism is a brutal and exploitative system, I don't agree with some of these particular criticisms. For instance, I just heard of a study that said that well over 90% of the nation's millionaires did not inheret their wealth, but earned it, which makes sense when you think about the incredible increase in the sheer number of millionaires since the economy took off in the 80's. The idea that rich people give to charities only to evade taxes or support the opera is unsubstantiable--not that it doesn't happen, but it's a bit glib to attribute selfish motives to a whole class of people based on stereotypes. And the fact is that the rich and the middle class in America give more money away than any group in history, while the poorest Americans not only don't give money away, but take more money and services practically every year despite a booming economy and low unemployment. The rich get richer, the poor get more envious (and I place myself in the latter category...) "Coleman, Preston" -----Original Message----- From: Matthew Scelza [mailto:scelza at earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 8:13 PM To: nla at world.std.com Subject: NLA Discussion:Capitalism is a working system, people are irrational And let's not forget that the majority (70%) of the rich inherit their wealth. The self-made millionaire is a nice story, but a minority truth. Peace, Matthew Andres Muro wrote: > In addition, a lot of wealthy people that give to charity do it to get a > break on their taxes. > > Andres > > >>> 11/17 11:12 am >>> > > >, it is often those same people > >who disproportionately fund and tirelessly work for social causes. > > Actually, every study I've seen on giving shows that the people with the > least money give the highest percentage to charitable causes, and the people > with the largest incomes give the smallest percentage, and what they do > contribute often goes, at least in the arts, to support orchestras, art > museums, i.e. institutions that traditionally serve upper income people, > those like themselves. > rk > -----Original Message----- > From: Rsrchjoey at aol.com > To: nla at world.std.com > Date: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 10:41 AM > Subject: NLA Discussion:Capitalism is a working system, people are > irrational > > > > >Catherine King writes: > > > >> However, the lack of moral "enlightenment" in those six-chimney > >> homes, and the quiet avoidance in our corporate boardrooms, should not go > >> unremarked. Where creating a working economy is part of our > success,this > >> quiet greed is a big part of our failure. > > > >I think we ought to refrain from broad over-generalizations based on > >"symbols". Just because someone lives in a "six-chimney home" does not > mean > >that they lack "moral enlightenment". Indeed, it is often those same > people > >who disproportionately fund and tirelessly work for social causes. I > cannot > >speak with the same conviction for many corporations, but I know there are > >those that have wonderful policies and programs which benefit those less > >fortunate. > > > >Jo Ann Doino-Ingersoll > >Strategic Research > >Mahwah, NJ > >RsrchJoey at aol.com > > From DJRosen at world.std.com Thu Nov 18 09:32:05 1999 From: DJRosen at world.std.com (David J Rosen) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 09:32:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: NLA Reminder: Please keep the focus Message-ID: <199911181452.JAA07029@europe.std.com> NLA Colleagues, Just a gentle reminder here to keep the focus on adult literacy public policy. I know that sometimes, in order to do that, we must explore a wider range of thought: personal expression, our spiritual side, capitalism (however defined) and other ideas, concepts, theories, and experiences, but I urge those who do so to show how this connects to adult literacy (including basic education and ESOL) public policy, show us how this would or could result in policy actions we might take to improve the field, to improve learning and life for adult learners. Thanks. David J. Rosen NLA moderator in action From cbking at flash.net Thu Nov 18 10:49:51 1999 From: cbking at flash.net (cbking) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 09:49:51 -0600 Subject: NLA Discussion: The Philosophy of Measurement Message-ID: <199911181453.JAA07374@europe.std.com> To all: Below is, I think, a relevant paragraph on the history of measurement and how it relates to human development. It is taken from Bernard Lonergan's "Insight, A Study in Human Understanding," p. 463. I thought it might help sort some of these issues out. >"The extra-ordinary success of the physical sciences naturally enough led >investigators of the organism, the psyche, and intelligence, to a servile >rather than an intelligent adoption of the successful procedures. In >physics and chemistry, measuring is a basic technique that takes inquiry >from the relations of things to our senses to their relations to one >another. But when one mounts to the higher integrations of the organism, >the psyche, and intelligence, one finds that measuring loses both in >significance and in efficacy. It loses in significance, for the higher >integration is, within limits, independent of the exact quantities of the >lower manifold it systematizes. Moreover, the higher the integration, the >greater the independence of lower quantities, so that the meaning of one's >dreams is not a function of one's weight, and one's ability in mathematics >does not vary with one's height. Besides this loss in significance, there >is also a loss of efficacy. Classical method can select among the functions >that solve differential equations by appealing to measurements and >empirically established curves. What the differential equation is to >classical method, the general notion of development is to genetic method. >But while the differential equation is mathematical, the general notion of >development is not. It follows that while measurement is an efficacious >technique for finding boundary conditions that restrict differential >equations, it possesses no assignable efficacy when it comes to >particularizing the general notion of development." It is the struggle between these two kinds of movements--classical data and developmental data--and their various treatments, that is at the bottom of the problems at the policy and accountability level. Education is first and foremost developmental, which falls under genetic method. It's not that we cannot be accountable; it is rather that accountability at the higher levels of development, e.g., psyche, intelligence, morality, spirituality, etc., cannot be developed around orders of time and mathematical numerations--it is extremely naive to do so. First, the nuances of quality are not of the same order as quantity. Those orders must be developed in a completely different way, and we should know what we are doing when we are doing it. We are not there yet. EFF is a start, but only that. Second, the emphasis is on the individual and not on cumulative orders of individuals. The flow of power is from the teacher to the individual student, and not from the students as a statistical number to some happy cumulative order. It is not to get rid of statistical science. It is to rather know that the emphasis here is out of order and doesn't fit the structure of the data--individual, conscious, developing human beings. Best to all, Catherine King From AhedOfGame at aol.com Thu Nov 18 11:13:33 1999 From: AhedOfGame at aol.com (AhedOfGame at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 11:13:33 EST Subject: NLA Discussion: Capitalism a working system, people irrational Message-ID: <199911181745.MAA10228@europe.std.com> There used to be a concept of "noblesse oblige"--that wealth brought with it a set of public/community/civic obligations. I'm reading now about how the new millionaires, particularly in the high tech industries, are having to be taught the concept of charitable giving.... Carolyn K. From dheath at apex2000.net Thu Nov 18 10:37:14 1999 From: dheath at apex2000.net (David Heath) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 09:37:14 -0600 Subject: NLA Discussion: EFF Message-ID: <199911182216.RAA05050@europe.std.com> Sue Barton says, "My contention is that the spiritual, creative side of an individual is incorporated into all three of the roles of an adult in this society. Therefore when adult ed address these three roles, the teacher uses methods that call the student's attention to a better understanding of himself as well as increasing his knowledge base towards functioning within this society"...(and in a follow-up post) "The role of the church and the community is one of nurturing the spiritual / creative side of an individual." The defenders of EFF seem to consistently take two positions. They argue that a dimension we could call self-actualization, self-knowledge or simply the "self" is incorporated within the framework of the three roles and the defined common activities and standards. (I would say it is fused and not differentiated. That is the problem.) But defenders also consistently contend that this dimension is more appropriately addressed outside the purview of adult education. By taking these two positions, they are admitting a dimension we could call the "self" (if addressed in the EFF framework through the standards, common activities and roles) is not comprehensively or fully addressed within this framework. Nor do they seem to understand (and this is fundamental) that it need be separately addressed in the EFF framework. I believe this "self" dimension is addressed within the other dimensions of family, worker and community. It is incorporated or fused within those dimensions as a subset. But because it is not differentiated as a distinct dimension, not only is it not clearly or fully addressed at the policy level, it will not be addressed, in most cases, at the instructional level. The positive side of modernity or the Enlightenment paradigm is that, through reason, we differentiated self, culture and nature. We recognized each as a distinct and adequate, if limited, stream of knowledge and experience. This freed us from the tyranny of the church, liberated us from mythic dogma and reductionism, which dominated culture, and permitted both the self and science to pursue its distinct, legitimate interests. Matisse could paint his notion of spirit free of pope and king and Darwin could investigate nature without being burned alive. EFF, in my opinion, is faced with a similar challenge. The "self" dimension cannot be merely incorporated or fused within the framework. It must be differentiated as a distinct and legitimate dimension or stream of investigation. Only then can it be adequately integrated with the dimensions of family, worker and community. Catherine King questions, "EFF IS definitely a step forward; however, Ms. Barton's note shows clearly where EFF does not go far enough, and where its role map falls short. My question is this: Where is the 'ROLE' of a 'better self understanding..."(and again) "Also, if the creative, spiritual self is an important part of our existence and development and is really a core part of what happens in someone's lifelong education process, why would it NOT be mentioned in a theoretical piece supposedly depicting the representation of the core structural needs of an individual in society?" Yes. Why would it not be? I have argued in other venues and on other listserves that EFF does not adequately address our compound individuality, and in not doing so, leads adult education policy into problematic areas. I posted a critical analysis of this position with possible solutions on the EFF listserv and I am cross posting it here as I feel it addresses the issues raised in recent posts. But first, a couple of comments: Despite the perhaps unclear and confused uses of language we often encounter when discussing these issues, I think most of us agree that life, consciousness, knowledge, experience and literacy are complex processes that are operative and instrumental across many dimensions. Following Ken Wilber, I would suggest that we are a whole, compound individuality, composed of and functional in at least three broad dimensions: subjective / intersubjective / objective. I would also suggest that any time we give too much authority to any of those parts, we will encounter reductionism in some form. And this is, in my opinion exactly what the EFF framework has done. The following is a portion of a cross-post from the EFF listserv that explains this position and offers some possible solutions. I suspect this particular approach to adult education [EFF] has been significantly influenced by two formative forces. 1) The framework was conceptualized and created using an idealistic, limited, political, governmental directive to determine what was needed to achieve the literacy goal that every adult American be literate by the year 2000. 2) The framework reflects the postmodern idea that meaning is significantly determined by language and by social and cultural contexts. Due to these molding forces, we are seeing a federal initiative being adopted by many states as the too often unquestioned window for viewing adult literacy. This is potentially problematic for several reasons, but for particularly one reason: the EFF framework appears to inadequately address (despite its many positive, working definitions of purposes, activities and skills) what it means to be fully literate or fully human. Ken Wilber, arguably the most holistic, integral and respected theorist in consciousness studies today, has pointed out that knowledge and meaning is exhibited in three dimensions of I, we and it. He divides these distinct and equally important dimensions into four quadrants of meaningful investigation: intentional (individual / subjective), behavioral (individual / objective), cultural (collective / intersubjective) and social (collective / interobjective). Knowledge would, according to this framework display itself in subjective / objective and singular / plural dimensions. (Sex, Ecology, Spirituality, A Brief History of Everything, The Eye of Spirit). EFF values the social and cultural dimensions (collective) of how we come to know. It values important functional roles, but seems to undervalue the intentional dimension (individual / subjective) and perhaps even, in some sense, the behavioral dimension (individual / objective) of meaning and legitimate inquiry. The potential, practical consequence is that art, philosophy and theology could be pushed to the background (and perhaps even the hard sciences) or not addressed at all. Both the subjective, individual "I" and the objective, individual "it" appear to be inadequately addressed in the EFF framework. Because of this, I perceive two dimensions of meaning and knowledge to be at risk: self-knowledge (which includes critical introspection, self-expression, the arts, psychological, philosophical and spiritual truth) and certain aspects of world knowledge (the hard sciences that are concerned with empirical, objective truth). When we fail to consciously acknowledge and value literacy in these domains, aren't we placing art, philosophy, psychology, theology and, in some cases, even the hard sciences, consciously or unconsciously, in the shadows of legitimate inquiry? This tendency in adult education toward "functional" literacy is pervasive. I am well aware that many adults need this education. Having said this, isn't even some personal understanding of Nietzsche or Jung as important as an understanding of the twelve steps to a successful interview? Isn't the reading of Garcia Lorca or the critical viewing of Picasso as valuable as an article in Newsweek? Isn't an introduction to Eckhart as necessary as an introduction to domestic violence? Are we hiding a secret assumption that adult education students are not up to the task? Have we become so flat inside the head of popular culture that we value only expanse at the expense of depth? Do we have an unspoken agenda needing to be deconstructed? In short, doesn't a more holistic definition of literacy require a more complex definition of roles, at a minimum, a role that addresses self-actualization or self-knowledge? A role that acknowledges and values meaning and knowledge discovered through the investigation of the interior, individual forms of consciousness. And don't we need to be cognizant not to minimize the value of objective, empirical truth in all the potential roles we define? Following Wilber, shouldn't content in adult education be derived from all four contexts of knowledge, meaning and experience, the interior and exterior of the collective and the individual? I do know this. When teaching advanced ESOL or ABE classes, Garcia Lorca would consistently bring more joy, authentic enthusiasm and creative participation than any twelve steps to a successful interview ever did. Let's not lose this truth in the commotion toward functional literacy and social roles. If anyone within the EFF community has any sympathy for the potential inadequacies I have only roughly suggested, I would strongly recommend that they contact the Fetzer Institute where they are currently looking into Wilber's pioneering work to determine how they might support and promote an integral approach to education. The incorporation of his four quadrant theory of legitimate knowledge is already being seen in business (Motorola), politics (Jeb Bush and Michael Lerner), government (NASA) and education (Michigan and Colorado). It would be worth your time. I wish you the best in your noble but extremely difficult work. Sincerely, David Heath From Barbara_Garner at jsi.com Thu Nov 18 11:32:41 1999 From: Barbara_Garner at jsi.com (Barbara Garner) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 11:32:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: NLA Info: Focus on Basics available Message-ID: <199911182221.RAA06180@europe.std.com> The newest issue of Focus on Basics, on standards-based education, is now available on NCSALL's website, at http://www.gseweb.harvard.edu/~ncsall In the issue, Regie Stites provides an overview of standards-based education, defining performance standards, content standards, and opportunity to learn standards. Sondra Stein of the National Institute for Literacy (NIFL) writes about this history of Equipped for the Future (EFF), and its role in system change on the national level. Jane Meyer discusses her Canton, Ohio, Evenstart program's use of a standards-based approach, explaining that EFF has made it much easier for everyone involved--learners, teachers, and administrators---to articulate clearly what they are accomplishing. Jim Carabell, from Vermont, describes his slow conversion to a standards-based approach in the article "Confessions of a Reluctant Standard Bearer". Math teacher Esther Leonelli writes about how she became involved in the math standards movement, and presents examples of math activities that represent values embodies in the NCTM math standards. In an interview with Brian Kane, of Washington state, we learn about the challenges and rewards of implementing a standards-based approach on the state level. Focus on Research looks at the action reseach being done by three sets of teachers in Tennessee, Kentucky, and Virginia, as they struggle to develop methods to document learner outcomes that can be useful at a system level. Barbara Garner ****************************** Barbara Garner phone (617) 482-9485 World Education fax (617) 482-0617 44 Farnsworth Street e-mail bgarner at worlded.org Boston, MA 02210-1211 From dheath at apex2000.net Thu Nov 18 11:14:24 1999 From: dheath at apex2000.net (David Heath) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 10:14:24 -0600 Subject: NLA Discussion: Self-esteem Issues Message-ID: <199911182223.RAA06444@europe.std.com> Sue Barton writes: >Art and Dave have made statements like the following one: > >>In my dislocated worker program, students arrive having been dealt a >>severe blow to their self-image. They are often severely depressed and >>anxious, speaking of uncertainty about self and future and putting down >>their own intellectual skills. It's my feeling that an important part of >>my work involves restoring my students' inner strength. > >I, quite frankly, don't feel qualified to be a councelor or psychiatrist. >As I said we should encorporate within our learning activities those group >dynamics which will help to increase a person's self confidence. But to put >a whole component in adult education called self/spiritual/creative is not >adult ed's function. I suspect that this nebulous reference to "spiritual" and "creative" is part of the problem with this line of posts. When we collapse these concepts into a medical model or counselor model and conflate and inflate terms, no one is discussing the same issue. Self-esteem issues are issues of self-actualization and self-development. We need not refer to them as "spiritual". And if we do, perhaps we should make an effort to define these terms as we perceive them. I believe we gain self-esteem through action. And EFF does not address the entire field of that potential action. We need not develop a psychological program in adult education for learners to be given the potential environment for buliding self-confidence and exchanging self-esteem with peers. We need merely give them an educational environment that is fully rounded and addresses all the dimensions of being human. Their actions in that arena will build self-confidence without any additional policy of administrators and teachers. David Heath From rkrawiec at mindspring.com Thu Nov 18 12:07:50 1999 From: rkrawiec at mindspring.com (rkrawiec at mindspring.com) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 12:07:50 -0500 Subject: NLA Reminder: Please keep the focus Message-ID: <199911182227.RAA07484@europe.std.com> Several years ago, at the second annual education summit (I forget the exact title now and I don't really have the time to look it up) dealing wit public school education, educators were not invited to participate, although governors and CEOs were. When questioned about this exclusion, one CEO responded - and I remember this quote because I wrote a piece about it at the time - 'We're the ones who use your (i.e. the schools') product, so we have a right to determine what that product looks like.' The fact that an 'education' summit would be driven by this sort of philosophy, where the primary function of an education system is reduced to producing 'products', i.e., students, to be 'used' by business - and, by implication, to be discarded when they are no longer useful - should be of grave concern to every educator. This is an example of the way the philosophy, the value system, of capitalism infiltrates other systems in our culture, in this case the educational system. Isn't it self-evident how this relates to our work in adult literacy, basic education, and ESOL? The same attitudes driving our public education system are driving our approaches to adult education. It's nice to discuss different ways to 'deliver' adult education, but don't you think the essential discussion needs to begin with defining the 'purpose' of education? And how can we, as educators, define that purpose if we don't understand who is currently defining that purpose, and to what end? rk For me, this discussion of capitalism - which is the driving force of our culture - is of far more importance in figuring out how to design an effective education system, than is a discussion of, to randomly cite one example, class size. -----Original Message----- From: David J Rosen To: nla at world.std.com Date: Thursday, November 18, 1999 9:52 AM Subject: NLA Reminder: Please keep the focus >NLA Colleagues, > >Just a gentle reminder here to keep the focus on adult literacy >public policy. I know that sometimes, in order to do that, we must >explore a wider range of thought: personal expression, our spiritual side, >capitalism (however defined) and other ideas, concepts, theories, and >experiences, but I urge those who do so to show how this connects to adult >literacy (including basic education and ESOL) public policy, show us how >this would or could result in policy actions we might take to improve the >field, to improve learning and life for adult learners. > >Thanks. > >David J. Rosen >NLA moderator in action > > > > From Rsrchjoey at aol.com Thu Nov 18 16:35:59 1999 From: Rsrchjoey at aol.com (Rsrchjoey at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 16:35:59 EST Subject: NLA Discussion: Charitable Contributions Message-ID: <199911190105.UAA04365@europe.std.com> In a message dated 11/17/1999 6:03:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, AndresM at epcc.edu writes: > In addition, a lot of wealthy people that give to charity do it to get a > break on their taxes. All of us who make charitable contributions enjoy that benefit. Does that make the act of contributing any less valuable? Jo Ann Doino-Ingersoll Strategic Research Mahwah, NJ RsrchJoey at aol.com From kathleenb at epcc.edu Thu Nov 18 16:26:31 1999 From: kathleenb at epcc.edu (Kathleen Bombach) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 14:26:31 -0700 Subject: NLA Discussion: Capitalism is rational Message-ID: <199911190109.UAA04620@europe.std.com> Capitalism is rational (not in the meaning of reasonable or making sense) because it reduces relationships to their lowest common element: the cash nexus, the commercial exchange, wages for work at the lowest price that one can get so as to increase profit. It is a different meaning of the word rational. It has not much to do with creating a decent world that we all would want to live in. Kathleen Bombach >>> 11/15 7:04 PM >>> I have to jump in to challenge the notion that capitalism is rational. Instead, I find debates around work in the US irrational in that the issue of a living wage is never raised. How is it rational for CEOs to accumulate money and perks at a rate many times over the historical precedents and justify paying workers at a wage so low that we, the taxpayers have to subsidize it with food stamps and other services so that people will not literally starve to death in the richest country in the world in boom times? Am I missing something? Workers at any skill level deserve a living wage in any rational society. DEBBYDAM at aol.com From dninke at owens.cc.oh.us Thu Nov 18 14:01:06 1999 From: dninke at owens.cc.oh.us (Diane Ninke) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 14:01:06 -0500 Subject: NLA Info: Workplace Learning Conference Message-ID: <199911190109.UAA04640@europe.std.com> [I am posting this Presenter's Application because I think this could be a good conference for presentation of public policy isssues concerning workplace education, and especially in light of the Conference Board study I think there should be new federal workplace legislation proposed. David J. Rosen, NLA List Moderator] The interactive Presenter's Application for the 2000 Workplace Learning Conference is now available at www.cew.wisc.edu/workplace. The deadline for submitting completed Presenter's Applications is Friday, December 10. The 2000 Workplace Learning Conference will be held in Dearborn, Michigan on May 7-9. The move to the Detroit Metropolitan area yields many exciting opportunities including tours of area workplaces. In addition, Ken Blanchard will be one of the featured speakers. Dr. Blanchard is co-author of the One-Minute Manager and Gung Ho! and is an internationally-recognized business consultant. Additional conference information including a tentative agenda is also posted on the conference website at www.cew.wisc.edu/workplace. If you are interested in presenting at the conference on May 7-9, 2000, please submit your application soon. The December 10 Presenter's Application deadline is rapidly approaching. If you have questions or would like additional information, feel free to contact Marlecia Almond, Presentation Coordinator, at (608) 265-3542 or via e-mail at malmond at education.wisc.edu; or Tabetha Hohneke, Registration Coordinator, at (608) 263-0631 or via e-mail at thohneke at education.wisc.edu. Conference registration forms will be available on January 3, 2000. Diane Ninke, Coordinator Northwest ABLE Resource Center Owens Community College P.O. Box 10000 Toledo, Ohio 43699-1947 Ph. 419-661-7355 fax 419-661-7662 E-mail dninke at owens.cc.oh.us From sjroyce at earthlink.net Thu Nov 18 18:52:34 1999 From: sjroyce at earthlink.net (Sherry Royce) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 18:52:34 -0500 Subject: NLA Discussion: The Philosophy of Measurement Message-ID: <199911190207.VAA12775@europe.std.com> Thank you, thank you, Katherine - You have explained in philosophical terms what ABLE teachers and administrators understand by way of experience and instinct. Sherry Royce 1938 Crooked Oak Drive Lancaster, PA 17601 Voice: 717.569.1663 Fax: 717.560.9903 sjroyce at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: nla-approval at world.std.com [mailto:nla-approval at world.std.com]On Behalf Of cbking Sent: Thursday, November 18, 1999 10:50 AM To: nla at world.std.com Subject: NLA Discussion: The Philosophy of Measurement To all: Below is, I think, a relevant paragraph on the history of measurement and how it relates to human development. It is taken from Bernard Lonergan's "Insight, A Study in Human Understanding," p. 463. I thought it might help sort some of these issues out. >"The extra-ordinary success of the physical sciences naturally enough led >investigators of the organism, the psyche, and intelligence, to a servile >rather than an intelligent adoption of the successful procedures. In >physics and chemistry, measuring is a basic technique that takes inquiry >from the relations of things to our senses to their relations to one >another. But when one mounts to the higher integrations of the organism, >the psyche, and intelligence, one finds that measuring loses both in >significance and in efficacy. It loses in significance, for the higher >integration is, within limits, independent of the exact quantities of the >lower manifold it systematizes. Moreover, the higher the integration, the >greater the independence of lower quantities, so that the meaning of one's >dreams is not a function of one's weight, and one's ability in mathematics >does not vary with one's height. Besides this loss in significance, there >is also a loss of efficacy. Classical method can select among the functions >that solve differential equations by appealing to measurements and >empirically established curves. What the differential equation is to >classical method, the general notion of development is to genetic method. >But while the differential equation is mathematical, the general notion of >development is not. It follows that while measurement is an efficacious >technique for finding boundary conditions that restrict differential >equations, it possesses no assignable efficacy when it comes to >particularizing the general notion of development." It is the struggle between these two kinds of movements--classical data and developmental data--and their various treatments, that is at the bottom of the problems at the policy and accountability level. Education is first and foremost developmental, which falls under genetic method. It's not that we cannot be accountable; it is rather that accountability at the higher levels of development, e.g., psyche, intelligence, morality, spirituality, etc., cannot be developed around orders of time and mathematical numerations--it is extremely naive to do so. First, the nuances of quality are not of the same order as quantity. Those orders must be developed in a completely different way, and we should know what we are doing when we are doing it. We are not there yet. EFF is a start, but only that. Second, the emphasis is on the individual and not on cumulative orders of individuals. The flow of power is from the teacher to the individual student, and not from the students as a statistical number to some happy cumulative order. It is not to get rid of statistical science. It is to rather know that the emphasis here is out of order and doesn't fit the structure of the data--individual, conscious, developing human beings. Best to all, Catherine King From AWilder106 at aol.com Thu Nov 18 20:45:38 1999 From: AWilder106 at aol.com (AWilder106 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 20:45:38 EST Subject: NLA thought: Vocabulary Reform Message-ID: <199911190215.VAA14097@europe.std.com> Dear rk, How about some vocabulary reform, then, and talk about "teaching" and "teachers." "Delivery" sounds like laundry. Besides, that's not what happens. Deliver literacy? Grotesque. Why don't we reform the vocabulary we use here? Then we can stand up and say what we mean and have some confidence that we won't get run over by people who think we work to do their bidding. There's strength in numbers, particularly if we start using a common vocabulary again that is suitable to what we do. Just a thought. Andrea From DJRosen at world.std.com Thu Nov 18 20:57:42 1999 From: DJRosen at world.std.com (David J Rosen) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 20:57:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: NLA Reminder: Focus on policy Message-ID: <199911190221.VAA15053@europe.std.com> NLA Colleagues, On Thu, 18 Nov 1999 Rich Krawiec wrote: [snip] > This is an example of the way the philosophy, the value system, of > capitalism infiltrates other systems in our culture, in this case the > educational system. Isn't it self-evident how this relates to our work in > adult literacy, basic education, and ESOL? The same attitudes driving our > public education system are driving our approaches to adult education. Rich, if capitalist values are driving our approaches to adult education -- I agree that they are -- what would you propose that advocates and activists do to change this? Should we ask students to look at how capitalist values are driving what happens to them in their classrooms? Should we discuss with them what they would like to do about this? Should we discuss this with legislators, get support for adult education in which learners could pursue not only basic skills and vocational preparation but also where they could learn to draw, paint, sculpt, take photographs, write poetry, tell stories, dance, sing, play an instrument, read the Bible, learn about labor history? Should we talk with local legislators? State legislators? Congress? If so, how would you present this argument persuasively? > It's nice to discuss different ways to 'deliver' adult education, but don't > you think the essential discussion needs to begin with defining the > 'purpose' of education? And how can we, as educators, define that purpose > if we don't understand who is currently defining that purpose, and to what > end? I don't think there should be any single purpose for adult education or any other form of education. In the case of adult education, I believe we should listen to what adults say they want and need, to take that seriously, and also to challenge them to consider other possibilities. The problem is that as a field we haven't -- until EFF and other recent more learner-centered efforts -- listened carefully enough to learners' purposes as they see them. And now that we are listening, I think there are some ways in which public policy does not fit what learners are saying they need. Public policy which provides funding to help learners improve reading and writing, speak English, prepare for jobs, get a diploma, or read to their children is not a problem, is it? Learners have all of these as goals. The problem is that public policy does not support all the learner goals. I think it's our job -- yours and mine and others on this list who believe in not only bread but roses -- to figure out how to get those other important learner goals supported by public policy, too. So Rich, where would you begin? David J. Rosen From AndresM at epcc.edu Thu Nov 18 11:05:02 1999 From: AndresM at epcc.edu (Andres Muro) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 09:05:02 -0700 Subject: NLA: Creative and Artistic Message-ID: <199911191105.GAA10834@europe.std.com> I will not dwell on the spiritual much, since it is a harder to grasp concept. However, I will specifically address the creative, or artistic. Even in workforce development, the creative element is essential in success. For example, if we look at computers, we run into web page design, virtual marketing, etc. Probably every company or business, small and big, has and is considering this. Many computer companies are having a difficult time employing skilled computer scientists that also have a creative side. So, they are hiring people with artistic backgrounds and training them with computer skills. The example shows how neglecting aspects in education can lead to gaps, even when applied to the business world. Therefore, we need to strive for a well rounded education that targets and enhances whole "mind". We can argue for this from a humanistic perspective or from a business perspective. Just like the liberal arts teacher that refuses to teach computer skills is short sighted, so is the business teacher who ignores the creative side. Let me come back to the spirit aspect at this point. I don't think that anybody is suggesting that we have a separate course in spiritual matters. However, if we interchange the word mind, for spirit, we can see the connection. A comprehensive education will strengthen the mind (or spirit) and better prepare people to succeed in the world. Andres >>> "Sue Barton" 11/18 7:40 am >>> Dear Group, Art and Dave have made statements like the following one: >In my dislocated worker program, students arrive having been dealt a >severe blow to their self-image. They are often severely depressed and >anxious, speaking of uncertainty about self and future and putting down >their own intellectual skills. It's my feeling that an important part of >my work involves restoring my students' inner strength. I, quite frankly, don't feel qualified to be a councelor or psychiatrist. As I said we should encorporate within our learning activities those group dynamics which will help to increase a person's self confidence. But to put a whole component in adult education called self/spiritual/creative is not adult ed's function. People obviously are deficient in those qualities...but my question is are we the source for their strength. I say NOT. I have seen many people gain self esteem in my classes because of my caring nature and my attention to them...but I was not teaching those qualities, I was exhibiting them in my behavior. Dave talks about this service of providing inner strength as "an approach." And I think he is entirely correct. It is an approach, a delivery...not an element of curriculum...some form of knowledge to impart. It is example.....something that a good teacher will already be using to reach students. There is a perfect example in a neighboring program of a teacher whose personality ministers to the alternative education students with whom she is teaching. Not everyone is internally equipped to handle that tough crowd. She does it naturally and should be commended. Sue Barton Dublin, VA Sue C. Barton AffilE8ted sbarton at i-plus.net Radford, VA 24141 From tsticht at aznet.net Thu Nov 18 22:33:24 1999 From: tsticht at aznet.net (Thomas Sticht) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 19:33:24 -0800 Subject: NLA Discussion: misfits in testing Message-ID: <199911191110.GAA11546@europe.std.com> David: Following is the third of a series of Research Notes on accountability and testing in adult literacy education that may be of interest to NLA list members. Tom Sticht Research Note 11/18/99 Accountability in Adult Literacy Education III: Misfits Between Identifying Adult Literacy Problems Nationally and Fixing Adult Literacy Problems Locally Thomas G. Sticht Applied Behavioral & Cognitive Sciences, Inc. The Workforce Investment Act 0f 1998, Title II: The Adult Education and Family Literacy Act requires "core indicators" of performance by federally funded literacy programs that can " ?show the progress of the eligible agency toward continuously improving in performance." For one of its contributions to "continuously improving" adult literacy education, the federal government has taken on the job of identifying the scale of need for such education. The National Center for Education Statistics, in cooperation with the Office of Vocational and Adult Education (OVAE), Division of Adult Education and Literacy (DAEL) designed and conducted door-to-door testing of adults' literacy skills using the 1992 National Adult Literacy Survey (NALS). The latter was then later modified and used in the 1995 International Adult Literacy Survey (IALS). To assess adult's literacy in 1992, the NALS/IALS used "real world" or "functional literacy" tasks such as filling out bank deposit slip, etc. Also in 1992, Richard Venezky prepared a policy paper that noted the differences between the "real world" tasks used in the NALS and the types of basic skills (e.g., word recognition, vocabulary knowledge, reading comprehension using literal and inferential meaning), that local programs generally teach as "literacy" (Venezky, 1992). He questioned the validity of the NALS/IALS-type "real world" tasks for bridging from the representation of adult literacy at the national level to providing useful information for teaching and learning literacy at the local level in the thousands of adult literacy programs throughout the nation. This raises the question of just what was the NALS supposed to provide and how well did it provide it? The report of the design of the National Adult Literacy Survey provides a list of five informational products that the Congress wanted the National Adult Literacy Survey to provide. Two involved factors such as literacy by demographic (gender, race, etc.) and occupation (laborers, managers, etc.) and are not considered here. Three were more central to literacy issues. Each of these informational products are listed below followed by a comment on what was actually provided for the informational product. Product #1. Describe the levels of literacy demonstrated by the total adult population as well as by adults comprising various subgroups, including those targeted as "at risk." Comment: The National Adult Literacy Survey developed three groups of tasks called prose, document and quantitative literacy (PDQ), administered the tasks to samples of adults, and used the tasks to scale both the adults' literacy proficiencies on each of the three scales and the difficulty levels of the tasks using Item Response Theory. The difficulty level of each task was defined as the level of literacy needed to have "... an 80 percent probability of correct response." (Kirsch, Jungeblut, Jenkins, & Kolstad, 1993, p. 71). Next, subjects were assigned to one of five literacy levels based on their proficiency scores. How well do these procedures characterize the literacy skills of adults? First, the rationale for the decision to scale the adults' literacy proficiency using a probability of .80 of being able to perform a given task, when the probability could have been set at .70, .60 or any other percent, was arbitrary. Kolstad, the Project Director for the NALS at NCES has recently noted that the probability value that makes the fewest classification errors, for example, saying that a person could not perform a given task when in fact the person could perform the task, was .50. This drops the percentage of adults assigned to the lowest level by over half. So at the present time, the "real" numbers of adults "at risk" for low literacy is not known. Product #2. Provide an increased understanding of the skills and knowledge associated with functioning in a technological society. Comment: Probably the most important question that the NALS researchers were asked to report on was, "Are the literacy skills of America's adults adequate ... to ensure individual opportunities for all adults, to increase worker productivity, or to strengthen America's competitiveness around the world?" The NALS report answered the question as, "Because it is impossible to say precisely what literacy skills are essential for individuals to succeed in this or any other society, the results of the National Adult Literacy Survey provide no firm answers to such questions" (Kirsch, Jungeblut, Jenkins, & Kolstad, 1993, p. xviii). Product #3. Interpret the findings related to information-processing skills and strategies in a way that can inform curriculum decisions pertaining to the education and training of adults. Consistent with Venezky's (1992) concerns, Congress wanted information regarding instructional "remedies" that might be taken to improve adults' literacy skills. The developers of the NALS suggested that adult basic skills programs should be geared to improving adults' skills in prose, document and quantitative (PDQ) literacy (Mosenthal & Kirsch, 1994). Indeed, researchers at the Educational Testing Service worked on an interactive video, computer-based instructional series that would teach document literacy skills. A small pilot study with a group of some 10-12 adult basic skills students indicated that, while students made improvements in document literacy, they made three to four times as much gains on prose and quantitative literacy tests as on the document literacy tests. This led the instructor who administered the pilot course to observe that, "The gains were interesting considering the PDQ curriculum did not include instruction in these skills." Reder (1994) has indicated that the three scales correlate above +.90 (overlap of some 80 percent) suggesting that they draw upon the same underlying cognitive system with its knowledge base and working memory processes. For this reason, it is to be expected that many language and processes developed in one domain may be available to other domains because they all draw on the same cognitive system. The results of the pilot instructional program would seem consistent with this theoretical point of view (which was not part of any view put forth by the NALS/IALS framework). It seems to me that putting some resources into the formulation of a theory of literacy that is both teacher and research based, and that could account for the large overlap among the three NALS/IALS scales would be a valuable course of action. It might reduce the need for three separate scales and permit a more cost-effective approach to a national assessment of adult literacy skills. It might also provide a bridge from the national assessment to local adult literacy education practices. References: Citations are given in:Sticht, T. (1999, April). Using Telephone and Mail Surveys as a Supplement or Alternative to Door-to-Door Surveys in the Assessment of Adult Literacy. Washington, DC: U. S. Department of Education, National Center for Education Statistics, Education Statistics Service Institute (ESSI). Venezky, R. L. (1992,May). Matching literacy testing with social policy: what are the alternatives? Policy Brief Document No. PB92-1. National Center on Adult Literacy, University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, PA. From Anne764139 at aol.com Fri Nov 19 05:37:20 1999 From: Anne764139 at aol.com (Anne764139 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 05:37:20 EST Subject: NLA Discussion: The Philosophy of Measurement Message-ID: <199911191125.GAA12789@europe.std.com> Dear Sherry, As a practitioner in MA, I have read with interest about the work in Pennsylvania. Could you expand a bit on how this philosophy of measurement is reflected in Pennsylvania's EQUAL project? Thanks, Anne Serino Lynn, MA From arthur at ellijay.com Sat Nov 20 11:49:21 1999 From: arthur at ellijay.com (Art LaChance) Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 08:49:21 -0800 Subject: NLA: Creative and Artistic Message-ID: <199911191422.JAA03713@europe.std.com> In support of Andres. If we look carefully at the attributes of the human divided brain, i.e. left hemisphere and right hemisphere and the dominant qualities of each, it becomes easier to see how it all must work together to achieve complete understanding of most any subject. The English language has been termed a "left brain" language (Barbara Vitale) presumably due to the infinite details and various logical facts that comprise it. (I spent two days with Barbara in two different workshops). The right brain (among a myriad of other features) is known as the seat of emotional responses and for achieving conceptual assumptions (for lack of a better term). Incorporation of BOTH sides is probably where the term "Whole language" came from. My impression is first you learn the detailed analysis of the langauge construct, and then learn how to add meaning (reception and delivery) which necessarily incorporates both hemispheres in the reception and delivery of thoughts, complete with feeling. English apparently doesn't need "feeling" to be understood while some of the "romantic" languages do? Very often we see children in an academic help program here who have difficulty engaging the right hemisphere qualities, and through a simple demonstration of how to read with emotion, the light comes on and they begin to read with comprehension. Not quite that simply however. At that point the self-esteem issues begin to restore and the child becomes OK with the educational processes. Children who are having difficulty with the coding and decoding processes basically are confused over the multitude of conflicting facts and rules that English is made up of. Additionally, most of those kids appear to be right brain dominant and need to see the "whole picture" before they can digest and separate out the details. RB dominant children and adults have great difficulty building a concept by accumulating details if they have no advance picture to begin with. So as Tom Woods indicated recently BOTH aspects should be incorporated in language instruction. Most "computer specialists" that I am familiar with appear to be left brained dominant and can handle the computer's pure logic parameters quite easily. Since the right-brain is also the seat of "creativity" then that attribute is not necessary. I think that although the various features supported by either hemisphere may be lowered in priority this does not mean that they are dysfunctional, I believe it means that the nondominant features will not be as effective as the dominant and therefore the consciousness will prefer to interrelate (and trust) with the dominant features. Extreme conditions of RB or LB dominance apparently result from many factors; genetics, damage, emotional trauma, conditioning, and probably a few others that I'm not aware of, and in many situations may very well be the root for an LD diagnosis. In these cases we may be able to teach the details and facts of English construct to immediate memory but medium or long term memory for such things will appear dysfunctional. And vice-versa for the RB qualities of conceptual understandings. Strong LB'ers usually present with a "flat affect" while strong RB'ers present with fragile emotions. Knowing HOW to "deliver" information to both "styles" of learning in the most effective way becomes paramount IF we intend to truly educate either chldren or adults. Thanks, Art Art LaChance Gilmer Learning Center Ellijay, GA Andres Muro wrote: > > I will not dwell on the spiritual much, since it is a harder to grasp concept. > However, I will specifically address the creative, or artistic. Even in > workforce development, the creative element is essential in success. For > example, if we look at computers, we run into web page design, virtual > marketing, etc. Probably every company or business, small and big, has and is > considering this. Many computer companies are having a difficult time > employing skilled computer scientists that also have a creative side. So, > they are hiring people with artistic backgrounds and training them with > computer skills. > > The example shows how neglecting aspects in education can lead to gaps, even > when applied to the business world. Therefore, we need to strive for a well > rounded education that targets and enhances whole "mind". We can argue for > this from a humanistic perspective or from a business perspective. Just like > the liberal arts teacher that refuses to teach computer skills is short > sighted, so is the business teacher who ignores the creative side. > > Let me come back to the spirit aspect at this point. I don't think that > anybody is suggesting that we have a separate course in spiritual matters. > However, if we interchange the word mind, for spirit, we can see the > connection. A comprehensive education will strengthen the mind (or spirit) > and better prepare people to succeed in the world. > > Andres > > >>> "Sue Barton" 11/18 7:40 am >>> > > Dear Group, > > Art and Dave have made statements like the following one: > > >In my dislocated worker program, students arrive having been dealt a > >severe blow to their self-image. They are often severely depressed and > >anxious, speaking of uncertainty about self and future and putting down > >their own intellectual skills. It's my feeling that an important part of > >my work involves restoring my students' inner strength. > > I, quite frankly, don't feel qualified to be a councelor or psychiatrist. > As I said we should encorporate within our learning activities those group > dynamics which will help to increase a person's self confidence. But to put > a whole component in adult education called self/spiritual/creative is not > adult ed's function. > > People obviously are deficient in those qualities...but my question is > are we the source for their strength. I say NOT. I have seen many > people gain self esteem in my classes because of my caring nature and my > attention to them...but I was not teaching those qualities, I was > exhibiting them in my behavior. > > Dave talks about this service of providing inner strength as "an > approach." And I think he is entirely correct. It is an approach, a > delivery...not an element of curriculum...some form of knowledge to > impart. It is example.....something that a good teacher will already be > using to reach students. There is a perfect example in a neighboring > program of a teacher whose personality ministers to the alternative > education students with whom she is teaching. Not everyone is internally > equipped to handle that tough crowd. She does it naturally and should be > commended. > > Sue Barton > Dublin, VA > > Sue C. Barton > AffilE8ted > sbarton at i-plus.net > Radford, VA 24141 From cbking2 at flash.net Fri Nov 19 11:18:32 1999 From: cbking2 at flash.net (cbking2) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 10:18:32 -0600 Subject: NLA -- A Covert Activity with a Distinction Message-ID: <199911191852.NAA21429@europe.std.com> In response to Sue Barton's post partly quoted below: "I, quite frankly, don't feel qualified to be a councilor or psychiatrist. As I said we should incorporate within our learning activities those group dynamics which will help to increase a person's self confidence. But to put a whole component in adult education called self/spiritual/creative is not adult ed's function." and ... "People obviously are deficient in those qualities...but my question is are we the source for their strength. I say NOT. I have seen many people gain self esteem in my classes because of my caring nature and my attention to them...but I was not teaching those qualities, I was exhibiting them in my behavior." Though I think this is not her point, Ms. Barton rightly claims that many other things happen besides "on the desk" curriculum in the teacher-learner relationship. But though changing the curriculum may be AN issue, it is not in this case THE issue. The original problem is this: That funding is ONLY being developed around "on the desk" accountability while giving little, or in many cases NO, acknowledgment of or value to what I have called "remote" issues of development--the very thing Ms. Barton and others have claimed is happening in education anyway. In short, people are all POTENTial in their development, in their psychology, social development, creativity, political development, spiritual development. ANY learning will serve this potential in some way, varied and "nebulous" as it is; in the curriculum taught explicitly or not. AND SHOULD BE ACCOUNTED FOR IN OUR FUNDING "DELIVERY." Programs that address these issues EXplicitly are only one of the many parts of the elephant, more appropriate in some places than in others--but always relevant. This development may or may not be addressed directly in curriculum issues in adult ed, as Ms. Barton seems to understand; however, as she also understands, they ARE ALREADY BEING TAUGHT implicitly in any teaching situation. Just as the student is not a "business model" machine, nor is the teacher. Rather, s/he is a human being who is "saying" much more to the student than what is put in front of them. The whole notion of "liberal studies" is to "liberate." "Library" has the same root word in Latin. Reading holds the potential of liberation, or to free us to become ourselves. It speaks to our potential as individuals, whatever that might be, and whatever we choose to make of it. It's not that this remote development SHOULD happen, but rather that it already DOES because of the developmental structure of persons--even though it might not be, and usually isn't, in the curriculum as direct subject matter? Shouldn't our funding channels be structured with this larger developmental progress in mind regardless of "measurable outcomes?" Shouldn't we begin with an assumed basis in the probability of unchartable development that Ms. Barton speaks of? Wouldn't this be a more realistic base that would take into account the fully human developmental issues of who we are serving? There are two questions here: First, "What is education?" and second, "What should our course material be?" The answer to the first question (for the EFF) must include an understanding of these larger "background" issues that are being served in a developing person regardless of what is directly being learned. A mind is being opened and an invitation issued for the person to change--not "roles," but substantially as WHAT and WHO I AM--it's a change of being. Roles are legitimate and effective; however, the person as a singular identity changes substantially in what constitutes them. This is not on a timetable. People carry teachers around inside them all their lives. Unless the statistician wants to follow them around forever..... The second question, "What should our course curriculum be?" is a vast and varied subject and differs with each program and each person's needs, as one of Tom Sticht's research notes, and several other notes have shown. But the funding needs to be directed in such a way as to show cognizance of the whole of education that is happening in any course material, and not merely specific outcomes and test scores, etc. I wonder how many people might enjoy a course entitled "Discovering Lost Creativity," or "Spiritual Questions in a Secular Land," or "Opening the Mind." The assumption in the titles alone might be powerful enough to start some fires in deadened hearts and minds, and would be great integrated "economical training" for learning to read. But we do not need these kinds of curriculum subjects to touch these background issue in a person. They are already spontaneously developing their potential in ALL of the courses--as we speak. Ms. Barton may not feel qualified as a counselor, but this is only one hat that teachers wear, no matter what we would like or think is happening. Teachers who are not aware of the psychological, social, political, and spiritual power floating around in the classroom are missing a qualitative dimension of what is going on anyway. It is a responsible position indeed. If we are not paid well, it is not because what we are doing is not THE most important thing in the world to do--to help others fulfill their potential. It's because our diminishing culture's understanding of what is important is upside down. Catherine King P.S: Another way to say "remote" and "proximate" learning is to say "constitutive" and "referential" learning. Remote learning is what changes US--constitutionally, who and what we are, and sets up the conditions to change the proximate learning, or what we we can "refer" to. Both are intricately related, both are a part of the developing human being, and both should be a consideration of funding and policy making. > -----Original Message----- > From: nla-approval at world.std.com [mailto:nla-approval at world.std.com]On > Behalf Of Sue Barton > Sent: Thursday, November 18, 1999 8:01 AM > To: nla at world.std.com > Subject: NLA: > > > > Dear Group, > > Art and Dave have made statements like the following one: > > >In my dislocated worker program, students arrive having been dealt a > >severe blow to their self-image. They are often severely depressed and > >anxious, speaking of uncertainty about self and future and putting down > >their own intellectual skills. It's my feeling that an important part of > >my work involves restoring my students' inner strength. > > I, quite frankly, don't feel qualified to be a councelor or > psychiatrist. > As I said we should encorporate within our learning activities > those group > dynamics which will help to increase a person's self confidence. > But to put > a whole component in adult education called > self/spiritual/creative is not > adult ed's function. > > People obviously are deficient in those qualities...but my question is > are we the source for their strength. I say NOT. I have seen many > people gain self esteem in my classes because of my caring nature and my > attention to them...but I was not teaching those qualities, I was > exhibiting them in my behavior. > > Dave talks about this service of providing inner strength as "an > approach." And I think he is entirely correct. It is an approach, a > delivery...not an element of curriculum...some form of knowledge to > impart. It is example.....something that a good teacher will already be > using to reach students. There is a perfect example in a neighboring > program of a teacher whose personality ministers to the alternative > education students with whom she is teaching. Not everyone is internally > equipped to handle that tough crowd. She does it naturally and should be > commended. > > > Sue Barton > Dublin, VA > > Sue C. Barton > AffilE8ted > sbarton at i-plus.net > Radford, VA 24141 > > > From Christy_Gullion at ed.gov Fri Nov 19 15:20:29 1999 From: Christy_Gullion at ed.gov (Gullion, Christy) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 15:20:29 -0500 Subject: NLA Info: Literacy Funding Increases by $100 million Message-ID: <199911192150.QAA21736@europe.std.com> Literacy Funding Increases by $100 Million - November 19, 1999 - Literacy funding will reach a historic high as a result of Congressional action this week. During the final days of the session, lawmakers agreed to a $100 million dollar increase over last year's funding levels - an all-time high for literacy funding. State education agencies will receive $85 million more for adult education basic state grant funds, most of which they award to local adult education, ESL, family, and community-based literacy programs. Of the total increase to the states, $25 million is earmarked for ESL programs. In addition, Even Start funding has been increased by $15 million for next year. (For information on how to apply for grants, contact your state director of adult education or the U.S. Department of Education.) While Congress and the President have agreed on final funding, the Senate has not yet taken formal action on the bill. The Senate will likely approve the bill in the next few days and then send it to the President for signature. A chart comparing funding over recent years follows. Literacy Programs FY 00 FY 99 FY 98 FY 97 (dollars in millions) Grants to States 450 365 345 340 Reading Excellence Act 260 260 85 - Even Start 150 135 124 102 National Programs/ESL 14 14 5 5 Nat'l. Institute for Literacy 6 6 5.5 4.5 Prison Literacy 5 4.7 4.7 4.7 TOTAL 885 784.7 569.2 456.2 Christy Gullion Senior Policy Analyst National Institute for Literacy 1775 I Street NW, Suite 730 Phone: 202/233-2033 Fax: 202/233-2050 cgullion at nifl.gov www.nifl.gov From sgabb412 at hotmail.com Sat Nov 20 08:26:45 1999 From: sgabb412 at hotmail.com (Sally Gabb) Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 05:26:45 PST Subject: NLA Discussion: EFF and the Spiritual/Creative Aspect Message-ID: <199911201405.JAA28660@europe.std.com> Hi all - in response to dialogue re David Hayes' question -- >"where is the learner as artist/writer/philosopher/spiritualy entity?" I believe most of us in adult ed can agree that in our experience, as David notes... >students arrive having been dealt a severe blow to their self-image. They >are often severely depressed and anxious, speaking of uncertainty about >self and future and putting down their own intellectual skills....... [our] >work involves restoring students' inner strength. I agree with you, Dave, that the classroom is.....'a valid place for spiritual/inner development because this type of developmentis a critical part of developing the student's ability to strengthen her/himself as learner/parent/civic participant. As such, it warrants serious consideration in EFF or any other type adult ed framework. I also recognize the caution about boundaries between 'spiritual' and 'religious' discussion and dangers of 'proselytizing' = the real issue here, to me, is insuring that a paradigm such as EFF doesn't become institutionalized in a way that narrows the definitions for what we can do creatively in our classrooms, but rather provides enriching and thought provoking guidelines for us as partners in the educational dialogue. Thanks, Rich, for reminding us of these essential/central human qualities, and of the dangers inherent in definitions developed for purposes which include funding and accountability.... Sally Gabb From rkrawiec at mindspring.com Fri Nov 19 10:34:57 1999 From: rkrawiec at mindspring.com (rkrawiec at mindspring.com) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 10:34:57 -0500 Subject: NLA Discussion: Focus on policy Message-ID: <199911201406.JAA28716@europe.std.com> David, Here's my brief (because I'm pressed for time, and I also feel I've taken up my share of space on this listserve and should pull back for a while) response to your questions. >Rich, if capitalist values are driving our approaches to adult education >-- I agree that they are -- what would you propose that advocates and >activists do to change this? First, recognize that this is the case. The reason I've been contributing to this discussion is to attempt to find out what the people who post here really believe. >Should we ask students to look at how capitalist values are driving what >happens to them in their classrooms? Should we discuss with them what >they would like to do about this? Of course. >Should we discuss this with legislators, get support for adult education >in which learners could pursue not only basic skills and vocational >preparation but also where they could learn to draw, paint, sculpt, take >photographs, write poetry, tell stories, dance, sing, play an instrument, >read the Bible, learn about labor history? Why not? >Should we talk with local legislators? State legislators? Congress? If >so, how would you present this argument persuasively? There are multiple ways. People into policy could work through the system. Teachers and students might write op-ed pieces, print up flyers, etc. in an attempt to influence public understanding of the issue. Why not have education forums in each state where these issues are discussed? I've seen very little public discussion of any of this. >I don't think there should be any single purpose for adult education or >any other form of education. In the case of adult education, I believe we >should listen to what adults say they want and need, to take that >seriously, and also to challenge them to consider other possibilities. >The problem is that as a field we haven't -- until EFF and other >recent more learner-centered efforts -- listened carefully enough to >learners' purposes as they see them. Neil Postman, who I don't always agree with, has some interesting essays on this issue of 'purpose' in education. I believe you can have a broad purpose without it being reductive. >So Rich, where would you begin? Isn't that what we're doing in this discussion - beginning? Rich Krawiec rkrawiec at mindspring.com From PARothgeb at aol.com Sat Nov 20 10:32:23 1999 From: PARothgeb at aol.com (PARothgeb at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 10:32:23 EST Subject: NLA -- A Covert Activity with a Distinction Message-ID: <199911201615.LAA10900@europe.std.com> Throughout the years my two children were in secondary education, we received many, many wonderful booklets and pamphlets from school administration telling us of their intention to promote in our children the ability to reason, think critically and creatively. And with the exception of a few wonderful teachers who held Catherine's beliefs about education, rote information was the menu of the day/semester. Creativity and spirituality are fed by the desire to know "why?" If that desire isn't incorporated in classroom instruction, we are indeed involved in the production of needed hands for the assembly line. Phyllis Rothgeb From sbarton at i-plus.net Sat Nov 20 16:50:28 1999 From: sbarton at i-plus.net (Sue Barton) Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 16:50:28 -0500 Subject: NLA Discussion: EFF and policy Message-ID: <199911210140.UAA07317@europe.std.com> Obviously Sally is not familiar with all that EFF is or she wouldn't have made this statement: >...the real issue here, to me, is insuring that a paradigm such as EFF >doesn't become institutionalized in a way that narrows the definitions >for what we can do creatively in our classrooms, but rather provides >enriching and thought provoking guidelines for us as partners in the >educational dialogue. Good job Rich Krawiec in steering the conversation back to common sense. Sue Barton Sue C. Barton AffilE8ted sbarton at i-plus.net Radford, VA 24141 From sgabb412 at hotmail.com Sun Nov 21 08:53:46 1999 From: sgabb412 at hotmail.com (Sally Gabb) Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 05:53:46 PST Subject: NLA Discussion: EFF and policy Message-ID: <199911211426.JAA06579@europe.std.com> Dear all - I assume that those familiar with this dialogue realize my point in speaking to the dangers of narrowly interpreting EFF. I am thoroughly familiar with EFF, and have led an effort in my agency to integrate our curriculum with this useful paradigm. However, like any piece of written material, it is open to misinterpretation, narrowing, etc. My comments were meant to recognize the importance of working with the EFF materials in as broad and creative a way possible, not to in any way dismiss its importance. I stand by my comments - that there is a danger that by having three 'roles'. and a heavy emphasis on utilitarian functions, the very issues brought up by Richard can be lost, especially when there is pressure to be more narrowly accountable. It is indeed our challenge to be sure that creativity and spirituality are not sacrificed to these efforts. Sal >From: "Sue Barton" >Reply-To: nla at europe.std.com >To: nla at world.std.com >Subject: NLA Discussion: EFF and policy >Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 16:50:28 -0500 > >Obviously Sally is not familiar with all that EFF is or she wouldn't >have made this statement: > > >...the real issue here, to me, is insuring that a paradigm such as EFF > >doesn't become institutionalized in a way that narrows the definitions > >for what we can do creatively in our classrooms, but rather provides > >enriching and thought provoking guidelines for us as partners in the > >educational dialogue. > >Good job Rich Krawiec in steering the conversation back to common sense. > >Sue Barton > >Sue C. Barton >AffilE8ted >sbarton at i-plus.net >Radford, VA 24141 > > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From sbarton at i-plus.net Sun Nov 21 11:58:28 1999 From: sbarton at i-plus.net (Sue Barton) Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 11:58:28 -0500 Subject: NLA Discussion: EFF and policy Message-ID: <199911212050.PAA14143@europe.std.com> The concern that using EFF in the classroom will cause "the powers that be" to institutionalize the use of it is unfounded. The whole philosophy of EFF involves freedom and creativity on the part of students and teachers and administrators. The interpretation of EFF is left up to the teacher. EFF is a vocabulary that allows educators to define concepts in a precise manner. It is not something to be interpreted. The interpretation is already obvious by definition. A good program manager/coordinator knows to allow her/his teachers to be creative. As a program co-coordinator, I encourage our teachers to be creative and involve students in projects and lessons that are life applicable so that we all can learn from each other thus building networks and bridges to the future. SUE Barton -----Original Message----- From: Sally Gabb To: nla at world.std.com Date: Sunday, November 21, 1999 9:42 AM Subject: NLA Discussion: EFF and policy > >Dear all - > >I assume that those familiar with this dialogue realize my point >in speaking to the dangers of narrowly interpreting EFF. >material, it is open to misinterpretation, narrowing, etc. My comments were >meant to recognize the importance of working with the EFF materials in as >broad and creative a way possible, not to in any way dismiss its >importance. > > >> >...the real issue here, to me, is insuring that a paradigm such as EFF >> >doesn't become institutionalized in a way that narrows the definitions >> >for what we can do creatively in our classrooms . > From sbarton at i-plus.net Sun Nov 21 12:02:03 1999 From: sbarton at i-plus.net (Sue Barton) Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 12:02:03 -0500 Subject: NLA Discussion: EFF Message-ID: <199911212056.PAA14742@europe.std.com> Here is a message from NIFL's EFF Listserv. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Our program (Hamilton City ABLE) is part of Ohio's EFF pilot project. We have implemented EFF into a many different types of classrooms (pre-GED/GED, young adults in an alternative high school who choose GED prep over alternative high school, ESL, literacy, corrections/recovery, job readiness). All classes are multilevel, usually spanning the entire range from literacy to GED prep. Most of the teachers introduce EFF as part of the orientation and at that time do a short lesson, which is then related to EFF. Students have a color coded EFF wheel for reference, and after a lessons, refer to the wheel noting which skills were used in the lesson. We have used a combination of ways to note skills learned. We use a goal sheet with the EFF wheel on it. Sometimes the students marks on the wheel what skills were used. We have also used color coded labels with the skills written on them, and we may ask the student to choose the one skill s/he used most frequently. The label is placed on that work. Group activities are very conducive to EFF orientation. I work in the corrections/recovery programs, and do more individual activities. Either seems to work well. I pass out an EFF goal sheet to students each day for students to apply to lesson they are doing that day. For most students, after the initial goal sheet, they can fill it out easily. For literacy students, I act as the student's secretary and guide the student through the goal sheet. With help, these students do this comfortably. After the goal sheet is completed, the assignment and goal sheet are stapled together and put in student's folder. For my students, I keep this in the office folder for safekeeping, and return it to the student when s/he leaves our site. For other sites, students keep these. I frequently have students come to me with problems. Although I may listen, and may make a referral, obviously I don't try to solve the problem. I have instead pulled out the EFF wheel, and the student and I discuss things s/he can do to make the situation better. The student usually knows what to do, but needs to talk out the situation to come to a solution. The biggest obstacle, and I also think the key to successful implementation, to EFF is to introduce EFF as part of the orientation. The student gets taste of what we will be doing. I think that give the students a sense of having begun and application to daily life. After orientation, I think it is important to relate lessons to EFF on a regular basis so students are familiar with the skills. Theoretically this would be every lesson every day. Practically, this may not be possible. I find my students generally lack the life skills EFF stresses. That's why they are in the situation (jail, drug/alcohol recovery) they are in. I think using EFF helps these students acquire these skills with dignity. I notice the recovery program, without using EFF lingo, also teaches EFF skills as part of the treatment plan. Using EFF helps students to recognize that and what they are learning. I find it to be self-affirming for my students. Millie Kuth Hamilton City ABLE Jefferson Annex 880 Chestnut St. Hamilton OH 45011 513-887-5020/5021 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sue C. Barton AffilE8ted sbarton at i-plus.net Radford, VA 24141 ------=_NextPart_000_0088_01BF3418.395B2FC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Here is a message from NIFL's EFF=20 Listserv.
 
Our program (Hamilton City ABLE) is part of Ohio's EFF pilot = project. We=20 have
implemented EFF into a many different types of classrooms = (pre-GED/GED,=20 young
adults in an alternative high school who choose GED prep over=20 alternative
high school, ESL, literacy, corrections/recovery, job=20 readiness).  All
classes are multilevel, usually spanning the = entire=20 range from literacy to
GED prep.

Most of the teachers = introduce EFF=20 as part of the orientation and at that
time do a short lesson, which = is then=20 related to EFF.  Students have a color
coded EFF wheel for = reference,=20 and after a lessons, refer to the wheel noting
which skills were = used in the=20 lesson.

We have used a combination of ways to note skills = learned. =20 We use a goal
sheet with the EFF wheel on it.  Sometimes the = students=20 marks on the wheel
what skills were used.  We have also used = color=20 coded labels with the skills
written on them, and we may ask the = student to=20 choose the one skill s/he used
most frequently.  The label is = placed on=20 that work.

Group activities are very conducive to EFF = orientation. =20 I work in the
corrections/recovery programs, and do more individual=20 activities.  Either
seems to work well. 

I pass = out an EFF=20 goal sheet to students each day for students to apply to a
lesson = they are=20 doing that day.  For most students, after the initial goal =
sheet, they=20 can fill it out easily.  For literacy students, I act as the =
student's=20 secretary and guide the student through the goal sheet.  With help, =
these students do this comfortably. 

After the goal = sheet is=20 completed, the assignment and goal sheet are stapled
together and = put in=20 student's folder.  For my students, I keep this in the
office = folder=20 for safekeeping, and return it to the student when s/he leaves
our=20 site.  For other sites, students keep these. 

I = frequently=20 have students come to me with problems.  Although I may listen, =
and may=20 make a referral, obviously I don't try to solve the problem.  I = have=20
instead pulled out the EFF wheel, and the student and I discuss = things s/he=20
can do to make the situation better.  The student usually knows = what to=20 do,
but needs to talk out the situation to come to a solution.  =

The biggest obstacle, and I also think the key to successful=20 implementation,
to EFF is to introduce EFF as part of the = orientation. =20 The student gets a
taste of what we will be doing.  I think = that give=20 the students a sense of
having begun and application to daily = life. =20

After orientation, I think it is important to relate lessons to = EFF on a=20
regular basis so students are familiar with the skills.  = Theoretically=20 this
would be every lesson every day.  Practically, this may = not be=20 possible. 

I find my students generally lack the life = skills EFF=20 stresses.  That's why
they are in the situation (jail, = drug/alcohol=20 recovery) they are in.  I think
using EFF helps these students = acquire=20 these skills with dignity.  I notice
the recovery program, = without=20 using EFF lingo, also teaches EFF skills as
part of the treatment=20 plan. 

Using EFF helps students to recognize that and what = they are=20 learning.  I
find it to be self-affirming for my=20 students.

Millie Kuth
Hamilton City ABLE
Jefferson = Annex
880=20 Chestnut St.
Hamilton OH 45011
513-887-5020/5021
Sue C. Barton
AffilE8ted
sbarton at i-plus.net
Radford, VA = 24141
------=_NextPart_000_0088_01BF3418.395B2FC0-- From AWilder106 at aol.com Sun Nov 21 16:51:48 1999 From: AWilder106 at aol.com (AWilder106 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 16:51:48 EST Subject: NLA: Respecting by listening Message-ID: <199911212221.RAA23632@europe.std.com> David and Rich, I am in favor of getting people to be able to think critically about how they are governed. This means asking questions and getting information. It means history, politics and the liberal arts. Small "c" capitalism is about improving what you've got, and education fits right in there. It also seems to me that greed doesn't know any "-ism." I remember taping one adult ed student for a project, and he said something like this: some of us weren't meant to have anything, that's the way the system works. He had carefully thought over the circumstances of his life: poor, Catholic, crowded parochial schools, alcoholic parents, and a learning disability. This is what he came up with. What I plead for here is some sort of critical attention to the thinking process and an avoidance of using words and their concepts which overlook or paint out a careful construction of complex realities. A good place to start with students is their own lives and the difficulties they encounter. There is a way of respecting people's realities by listening to them and starting from where they are. How many people have been carefully listened to by one other person? People have to own words and literacy, they have to work themselves into the social dialogue, ideally, in my view, by building up--or in-- from their own realities. Andrea From DJRosen at world.std.com Sun Nov 21 17:50:27 1999 From: DJRosen at world.std.com (David J Rosen) Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 17:50:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: NLA Discussion: Connecting Listening to Students with Policy Message-ID: <199911220026.TAA07390@europe.std.com> NLA Colleagues, Andrea Wilder wrote: [Snip] > What I plead for here is some sort of critical attention to the thinking > process and an avoidance of using words and their concepts which overlook or > paint out a careful construction of complex realities. A good place to > start with students is their own lives and the difficulties they encounter. > There is a way of respecting people's realities by listening to them and > starting from where they are. How many people have been carefully listened > to by one other person? Public policy is surprisingly often made by legislators who have carefully and empathetically listened. In Massachusetts, for example, former governor Dukakis launched a million dollar literacy campaign after a conversation with a college custodian who asked him for help in learning to read. The first three legislators to raise adult literacy as an issue in our state did so after a breakfast meeting with several activist adult literacy practitioners who bent their ear about the need for better literacy services in their community. A current stalwart legislative literacy champion said this became one of his main issues when a former high school chum confided that he learned to read as an adult, had hid his difficulty reading from family and friends all through high school and into adulthood. All these -- and many other examples from across the country -- convince me that as former Speaker of the House, Tip O'Neill, used to say "All politics is local," and as colleague, Phil Rabinowitz, recently reminded me -- politics is also personal. Colleagues, I think our challenge is to enable more students to talk with legislators -- up close and personal, in informal settings where legislators can (and will) ask why they are enrolled in literacy/basic education/ESOL programs, what they want to get out of their classes or tutorials, how programs are helping or have helped them. Legislators need to learn from adult learners and graduates, as Andrea says "about their own lives and the difficulties they encounter", and about how literacy programs have helped them. Consider what you can do to make a meeting possible between a state or national legislator and a group of adult learners or graduates, one in which there is open, honest, comfortable discussion, in which students have a chance to talk about their goals, programs' strengths and weaknesses, how they would like programs to be held accountable, and what the range of learning opportunities needs to include. If you do arrange such a meeting, please post a message to the NLA list. Let us know what you did, how it worked out, what you think might have been accomplished, how students or graduates felt about it, how you felt about it. David J. Rosen From cfranc2 at ilstu.edu Mon Nov 22 08:16:42 1999 From: cfranc2 at ilstu.edu (Chris Francisco) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 08:16:42 -0500 Subject: NLA Discussion: Connecting Listening to Students with Policy Message-ID: <199911221608.LAA20679@europe.std.com> David, I affirm your words, thoughts and suggestions! Bringing the powerful message of our students to the policy makers is important beyond these simple words. The passion, courage, and devotion of our adult learners is known to our field...we must send these stories on. Be well and thank you for reminding the brothers and sisters in the ranks of our important mission. Peace, Chris > >Andrea Wilder wrote: > >[Snip] >> What I plead for here is some sort of critical attention to the thinking >> process and an avoidance of using words and their concepts which overlook or >> paint out a careful construction of complex realities. A good place to >> start with students is their own lives and the difficulties they encounter. >> There is a way of respecting people's realities by listening to them and >> starting from where they are. How many people have been carefully listened >> to by one other person? > >Public policy is surprisingly often made by legislators who have carefully >and empathetically listened. In Massachusetts, for example, former governor >Dukakis launched a million dollar literacy campaign after a conversation >with a college custodian who asked him for help in learning to read. The >first three legislators to raise adult literacy as an issue in our state >did so after a breakfast meeting with several activist adult literacy >practitioners who bent their ear about the need for better literacy >services in their community. A current stalwart legislative literacy >champion said this became one of his main issues when a former high school >chum confided that he learned to read as an adult, had hid his difficulty >reading from family and friends all through high school and into >adulthood. All these -- and many other examples from across the country -- >convince me that as former Speaker of the House, Tip O'Neill, used to say >"All politics is local," and as colleague, Phil Rabinowitz, recently >reminded me -- politics is also personal. > >Colleagues, I think our challenge is to enable more students to talk with >legislators -- up close and personal, in informal settings where >legislators can (and will) ask why they are enrolled in >literacy/basic education/ESOL programs, what they want to get out of their >classes or tutorials, how programs are helping or have helped them. >Legislators need to learn from adult learners and graduates, as Andrea >says "about their own lives and the difficulties they encounter", and >about how literacy programs have helped them. > >Consider what you can do to make a meeting possible between a state or >national legislator and a group of adult learners or graduates, one in >which there is open, honest, comfortable discussion, in which students >have a chance to talk about their goals, programs' strengths and >weaknesses, how they would like programs to be held accountable, and what >the range of learning opportunities needs to include. > >If you do arrange such a meeting, please post a message to the NLA list. >Let us know what you did, how it worked out, what you think might have >been accomplished, how students or graduates felt about it, how you felt >about it. > >David J. Rosen > > From sjroyce at earthlink.net Mon Nov 22 11:29:08 1999 From: sjroyce at earthlink.net (Sherry Royce) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:29:08 -0500 Subject: NLA Discussion: The Philosophy of Measurement Message-ID: <199911221707.MAA01210@europe.std.com> Dear Anne and others interested in Pennsylvania's initiatives, Sandy Strunk is the Equal team leader and should really be answering your questions. But to put matters in a simplistic framework, Pennsylvania's Adult Teacher Competency Standards places the onus on practitioners to reflect upon their practice along with program administrators or mentors and cooperatively determine practitioner action plans that will enhance their teaching proficiency in areas identified by Pennsylvania's five ATCS Standards (Adult Learning, Instructional Expertise, Community Involvement,Professional Development, and Program Operations). This process recognizes that, like adult learners, practitioners learn best when they select activities in keeping with their personal learning styles; that they are at various levels of competency along a continuum that stretches from entrance level (novice) to the experienced and expert teacher; and that there should be inherent value to the program in the projects they undertake. The Equal project on the other hand is an agency-based continuous improvement process that includes participatory planning, agency self-assessment based on Pennsylvania's Indicators of Program Quality, data driven decision making and targeted technical assistance based on annual program improvement plans. The intended result is not only program improvement in line with Pennsylvania's quality indicators but the training and empowerment of program personnel to reflect upon practice and to collect and analyze data for program improvement. Sherry Royce 1938 Crooked Oak Drive Lancaster, PA 17601 Voice: 717.569.1663 Fax: 717.560.9903 sjroyce at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: nla-approval at world.std.com [mailto:nla-approval at world.std.com]On Behalf Of Anne764139 at aol.com Sent: Friday, November 19, 1999 5:37 AM To: nla at world.std.com Subject: NLA Discussion: The Philosophy of Measurement Dear Sherry, As a practitioner in MA, I have read with interest about the work in Pennsylvania. Could you expand a bit on how this philosophy of measurement is reflected in Pennsylvania's EQUAL project? Thanks, Anne Serino Lynn, MA From erno at esinet.net Mon Nov 22 15:19:13 1999 From: erno at esinet.net (Susan Erno) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 15:19:13 -0500 Subject: NLA Discussion: Connecting Listening to Students with Policy Message-ID: <199911222307.SAA03513@europe.std.com> David Rosen writes: >Consider what you can do to make a meeting possible between a state or >national legislator and a group of adult learners or graduates, one in >which there is open, honest, comfortable discussion, in which students >have a chance to talk about their goals, programs' strengths and >weaknesses, how they would like programs to be held accountable, and what >the range of learning opportunities needs to include. > >If you do arrange such a meeting, please post a message to the NLA list. >Let us know what you did, how it worked out, what you think might have >been accomplished, how students or graduates felt about it, how you felt >about it. Charlottesville Adult Education students recently invited local legislators to visit their Basic Skills/GED/ESL classes. Last Thursday, Delegate Mitch van Yahres, our state representative, spent the morning visiting classes and joined in a pot luck luncheon. Prior to the visit, students wrote letters to individual legislators telling about themselves and the importance of their education. All students were a bit nervous about having a guest. They talked about what they would do in class and some wrote presentations. Here's what happened: in each class, Del. van Yahres gave a brief summary of what he does as a legislator. In the Basic Skills/GED class, he met with each student, shook their hands and talked with them about their education. Students then had an opportunity to ask questions- these ranged from putting prayer in schools to increasing teachers' salaries to more funding for adult education/ESL classes and how to lobby-write letters, call,etc. The students felt that Del van Yahres understood their needs. Many heads nodded when he talked about the value and necessity of education. He also took time to listen; both to questions in a large group and then informally during the luncheon. Many ESL students were pleased to have a conversation about their issues and brought up the fact that they have a lot to offer the community in terms of teaching others about different cultures, becoming part of the workforce, and volunteering. They also made clear that this class was for more than just learning English; for many it is their link to the community. The lunch brought everyone together, there was sushi, kim chee, and enchilada casserole alongside turkey, collard greens, and pumpkin pie. Adults who had never lived outside of Charlottesville met adults from Bosnia, Venezuela, Korea, etc. They shared food and conversation. This was the beginning relationships for these classes. What impact did this have on our program? Some teachers are already planning the next inter-class meeting. An ESL teacher is thinking about Community Outreach field trips and speakers for her class. An ESL newspaper Class will be offered next semester to provide an opportunity for students to both go out in the community to gather information and come together to publish a paper to be used by all students. The original intent was to raise awareness and develop relationships with legislators so that when funding issues arise, they would have many faces to put with adult education. The student letters may have an impact; it's too soon to tell. Many students have already received replies from legislators. The next step is to present to the school board. They, too, have received many letters, and some students have expressed an interest in speaking to the board. We all learned from this experience in more ways than we imagined. Susan Erno Regional Adult Education Specialist 201 4th St NW Charlottesville, VA 22903 From sbarton at i-plus.net Mon Nov 22 22:58:07 1999 From: sbarton at i-plus.net (Sue Barton) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 22:58:07 -0500 Subject: NLA Discussion: Respecting by listening Message-ID: <199911230420.XAA16645@europe.std.com> Andrea writes: "What I plead for here is some sort of critical attention to the thinking process and an avoidance of using words and their concepts which overlook or paint out a careful construction of complex realities. A good place to start with students is their own lives and the difficulties they encounter." I would like to say that one of the good things about the EFF concepts is that they allow the instructor and policy makers to either focus narrowly or see the big picture. The performance indicators (name has since changed) and standards are designed to guide the reader through a thought process toward a greater understanding of the task ahead. For example, I used the Reflect and Evaluate Standard to walk myself through the process of trying to figure out why my students were unable to articulate short term goals. I ended up with an activity that worked and it was adopted by my whole program. Listening Actively is another Standard developed to encompass the listening process. I used that procedure/ thought process to heighten my student's awareness of what our visiting speaker was presenting. EFF is not just another set of vocabulary that restricts. It is a vocabulary that sets us as teachers, administrators, policy makers, and students free to explore the world around us. Sue Barton Dublin, VA From sbarton at i-plus.net Mon Nov 22 23:12:11 1999 From: sbarton at i-plus.net (Sue Barton) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 23:12:11 -0500 Subject: NLA Info:Literacy Month Message-ID: <199911230426.XAA17422@europe.std.com> This month Virginia's Governor declared November Literacy Month. We were encouraged by the state office to involve our local legislators in our adult ed. activities and classrooms. We tried many avenues to reach our busy local legislators and the program that we finally settled on was one carried out by the students. Two classes combined to celebrate literacy month and be honored by the teachers, administrators and fellow students. Students notified the local newspaper of the celebration. Discussions and interviews dominated the event where students learned and shared how important literacy is in all our lives. They invited the local Literacy Volunteers of America chapter coordinator to speak about student successes and struggles in their organization. One such success is the formation, initiated by one of the students, of a student support group. Even though the legislators were unavailable to attend our classes, they will be able to read the article from the newspaper about our event. Human interest articles are a powerful vehicle for public policy support and change, especially when the VOICES are the students themselves. Sue C. Barton AffilE8ted sbarton at i-plus.net Radford, VA 24141 From sbarton at i-plus.net Mon Nov 22 23:29:08 1999 From: sbarton at i-plus.net (Sue Barton) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 23:29:08 -0500 Subject: NLA Discussion: Program Management Message-ID: <199911231240.HAA08580@europe.std.com> Sherry, We here in the New River Valley join you in participating in participatory management of our program. We have task teams composed of teachers with the duty of solving problems and addressing the issues we face as adult educators. The result is not only a suggestion for solution to a problem but a vision of future avenues of action to take. Other benefits are camaraderie between staff members, sharing of ideas,and increased awareness of adult education issues and concerns. Our task teams continue until the task is completed and then re-form around a new task. It is strictly voluntary and teachers are compensated for their effort. Reflection and Evaluation are major components of each team's task and depending on the type of task, teams are encouraged to read the EFF standard that addresses the issue or concern to be tackled. Sue Barton NRCC Dublin, VA -----Original Message----- From: Sherry Royce To: nla at world.std.com Date: Monday, November 22, 1999 12:42 PM Subject: NLA Discussion: The Philosophy of Measurement > >Dear Anne and others interested in Pennsylvania's initiatives, > >Sandy Strunk is the Equal team leader and should really be answering your >questions. But to put matters in a simplistic framework, Pennsylvania's >Adult Teacher Competency Standards places the onus on practitioners to >reflect upon their practice along with program administrators or mentors and >cooperatively determine practitioner action plans that will enhance their >teaching proficiency in areas identified by Pennsylvania's five ATCS >Standards (Adult Learning, Instructional Expertise, Community >Involvement,Professional Development, and Program Operations). > >This process recognizes that, like adult learners, practitioners learn best >when they select activities in keeping with their personal learning styles; >that they are at various levels of competency along a continuum that >stretches from entrance level (novice) to the experienced and expert >teacher; and that there should be inherent value to the program in the >projects they undertake. > >The Equal project on the other hand is an agency-based continuous >improvement process that includes participatory planning, agency >self-assessment based on Pennsylvania's Indicators of Program Quality, data >driven decision making and targeted technical assistance based on annual >program improvement plans. The intended result is not only program >improvement in line with >Pennsylvania's quality indicators but the training and empowerment of >program personnel to reflect upon practice and to collect and analyze data >for program improvement. > >Sherry Royce >1938 Crooked Oak Drive >Lancaster, PA 17601 >Voice: 717.569.1663 Fax: 717.560.9903 >sjroyce at earthlink.net > >-----Original Message----- >From: nla-approval at world.std.com [mailto:nla-approval at world.std.com]On >Behalf Of Anne764139 at aol.com >Sent: Friday, November 19, 1999 5:37 AM >To: nla at world.std.com >Subject: NLA Discussion: The Philosophy of Measurement > > > >Dear Sherry, > > As a practitioner in MA, I have read with interest about the work in >Pennsylvania. Could you expand a bit on how this philosophy of measurement >is reflected in Pennsylvania's EQUAL project? > >Thanks, >Anne Serino >Lynn, MA > > From haw6 at psu.edu Tue Nov 23 13:27:40 1999 From: haw6 at psu.edu (Heidi A.C. Watson) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:27:40 -0500 Subject: NLA Info: MOSAIC published. Message-ID: <199911231931.OAA26594@europe.std.com> The Institute for the Study of Adult Literacy (ISAL) at Penn State proudly announces that its November issue of MOSAIC is now available on ISAL's website. Check out this informative issue, which highlights the impact of welfare reform on the field of adult basic education and literacy. ISAL's website: http://www.ed.psu.edu/isal/frm_pubs.html Please feel free to distribute this information to other lists or individuals. Heidi Watson NIFL-WORKPLACE List Co-Moderator Sr. Research Technologist Institute for the Study of Adult Literacy College of Education The Pennsylvania State University 102 Rackley Building University Park, PA 16802-3202 Phone: 814-863-3777 Fax: 814-863-6108 E-mail: haw6 at psu.edu From sgabb412 at hotmail.com Tue Nov 23 12:57:58 1999 From: sgabb412 at hotmail.com (Sally Gabb) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:57:58 PST Subject: NLA Discussion: Program Management Message-ID: <199911231935.OAA28012@europe.std.com> Sue, Sherry and all - At our agency, The Genesis Center in Providence, RI, we have moved into a team staff development and management process that is benefiting the agency, teachers, and learners. While Rhode Island doesn't yet have Adult Teaching Competencies, I am interested in the process through which these were developed in PA, and in the ad hoc process at your agency, Sue. I applaud the problem solving focus of the teams you describe: it sounds as if there is an active critical process in place which sounds exciting. In line with the philosophy of EFF, this participatory developmental process can best inform practice, in my opinion. Thanks for the contributions: I am copying the exchange for my staff as well. Sally >From: "Sue Barton" >Reply-To: nla at europe.std.com >To: nla at world.std.com >Subject: NLA Discussion: Program Management >Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 23:29:08 -0500 > >Sherry, > >We here in the New River Valley join you in participating in participatory >management of our program. We have task teams composed of teachers with >the >duty of solving problems and addressing the issues we face as adult >educators. The result is not only a suggestion for solution to a problem >but a vision of future avenues of action to take. Other benefits are >camaraderie between staff members, sharing of ideas,and increased awareness >of adult education issues and concerns. Our task teams continue until the >task is completed and then re-form around a new task. It is strictly >voluntary and teachers are compensated for their effort. >Reflection and Evaluation are major components of each team's task and >depending on the type of task, teams are encouraged to read the EFF >standard >that addresses the issue or concern to be tackled. > >Sue Barton >NRCC >Dublin, VA > >-----Original Message----- >From: Sherry Royce >To: nla at world.std.com >Date: Monday, November 22, 1999 12:42 PM >Subject: NLA Discussion: The Philosophy of Measurement > > > > > >Dear Anne and others interested in Pennsylvania's initiatives, > > > >Sandy Strunk is the Equal team leader and should really be answering your > >questions. But to put matters in a simplistic framework, Pennsylvania's > >Adult Teacher Competency Standards places the onus on practitioners to > >reflect upon their practice along with program administrators or mentors >and > >cooperatively determine practitioner action plans that will enhance their > >teaching proficiency in areas identified by Pennsylvania's five ATCS > >Standards (Adult Learning, Instructional Expertise, Community > >Involvement,Professional Development, and Program Operations). > > > >This process recognizes that, like adult learners, practitioners learn >best > >when they select activities in keeping with their personal learning >styles; > >that they are at various levels of competency along a continuum that > >stretches from entrance level (novice) to the experienced and expert > >teacher; and that there should be inherent value to the program in the > >projects they undertake. > > > >The Equal project on the other hand is an agency-based continuous > >improvement process that includes participatory planning, agency > >self-assessment based on Pennsylvania's Indicators of Program Quality, >data > >driven decision making and targeted technical assistance based on annual > >program improvement plans. The intended result is not only program > >improvement in line with > >Pennsylvania's quality indicators but the training and empowerment of > >program personnel to reflect upon practice and to collect and analyze >data > >for program improvement. > > > >Sherry Royce > >1938 Crooked Oak Drive > >Lancaster, PA 17601 > >Voice: 717.569.1663 Fax: 717.560.9903 > >sjroyce at earthlink.net > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: nla-approval at world.std.com [mailto:nla-approval at world.std.com]On > >Behalf Of Anne764139 at aol.com > >Sent: Friday, November 19, 1999 5:37 AM > >To: nla at world.std.com > >Subject: NLA Discussion: The Philosophy of Measurement > > > > > > > >Dear Sherry, > > > > As a practitioner in MA, I have read with interest about the work in > >Pennsylvania. Could you expand a bit on how this philosophy of >measurement > >is reflected in Pennsylvania's EQUAL project? > > > >Thanks, > >Anne Serino > >Lynn, MA > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From MSchwarz at edc.org Tue Nov 23 13:44:44 1999 From: MSchwarz at edc.org (MSchwarz at edc.org) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:44:44 -0500 Subject: NLA Discussion: misfits in testing Message-ID: <199911232043.PAA16091@europe.std.com> I hope you,Tom continue to talk in this intelligent way about these accountability issues. The testing and accountability mania keeps getting unconnected to what exactly these instruments can actually measure. Marian Lapsley Schwarz, ALMA _______________________________________________________________________________ Subject: NLA Discussion: misfits in testing From: nla at europe.std.com at internet Date: 11/18/99 7:33 PM David: Following is the third of a series of Research Notes on accountability and testing in adult literacy education that may be of interest to NLA list members. Tom Sticht Research Note 11/18/99 Accountability in Adult Literacy Education III: Misfits Between Identifying Adult Literacy Problems Nationally and Fixing Adult Literacy Problems Locally Thomas G. Sticht Applied Behavioral & Cognitive Sciences, Inc. The Workforce Investment Act 0f 1998, Title II: The Adult Education and Family Literacy Act requires "core indicators" of performance by federally funded literacy programs that can " .show the progress of the eligible agency toward continuously improving in performance." For one of its contributions to "continuously improving" adult literacy education, the federal government has taken on the job of identifying the scale of need for such education. The National Center for Education Statistics, in cooperation with the Office of Vocational and Adult Education (OVAE), Division of Adult Education and Literacy (DAEL) designed and conducted door-to-door testing of adults' literacy skills using the 1992 National Adult Literacy Survey (NALS). The latter was then later modified and used in the 1995 International Adult Literacy Survey (IALS). To assess adult's literacy in 1992, the NALS/IALS used "real world" or "functional literacy" tasks such as filling out bank deposit slip, etc. Also in 1992, Richard Venezky prepared a policy paper that noted the differences between the "real world" tasks used in the NALS and the types of basic skills (e.g., word recognition, vocabulary knowledge, reading comprehension using literal and inferential meaning), that local programs generally teach as "literacy" (Venezky, 1992). He questioned the validity of the NALS/IALS-type "real world" tasks for bridging from the representation of adult literacy at the national level to providing useful information for teaching and learning literacy at the local level in the thousands of adult literacy programs throughout the nation. This raises the question of just what was the NALS supposed to provide and how well did it provide it? The report of the design of the National Adult Literacy Survey provides a list of five informational products that the Congress wanted the National Adult Literacy Survey to provide. Two involved factors such as literacy by demographic (gender, race, etc.) and occupation (laborers, managers, etc.) and are not considered here. Three were more central to literacy issues. Each of these informational products are listed below followed by a comment on what was actually provided for the informational product. Product #1. Describe the levels of literacy demonstrated by the total adult population as well as by adults comprising various subgroups, including those targeted as "at risk." Comment: The National Adult Literacy Survey developed three groups of tasks called prose, document and quantitative literacy (PDQ), administered the tasks to samples of adults, and used the tasks to scale both the adults' literacy proficiencies on each of the three scales and the difficulty levels of the tasks using Item Response Theory. The difficulty level of each task was defined as the level of literacy needed to have "... an 80 percent probability of correct response." (Kirsch, Jungeblut, Jenkins, & Kolstad, 1993, p. 71). Next, subjects were assigned to one of five literacy levels based on their proficiency scores. How well do these procedures characterize the literacy skills of adults? First, the rationale for the decision to scale the adults' literacy proficiency using a probability of .80 of being able to perform a given task, when the probability could have been set at .70, .60 or any other percent, was arbitrary. Kolstad, the Project Director for the NALS at NCES has recently noted that the probability value that makes the fewest classification errors, for example, saying that a person could not perform a given task when in fact the person could perform the task, was .50. This drops the percentage of adults assigned to the lowest level by over half. So at the present time, the "real" numbers of adults "at risk" for low literacy is not known. Product #2. Provide an increased understanding of the skills and knowledge associated with functioning in a technological society. Comment: Probably the most important question that the NALS researchers were asked to report on was, "Are the literacy skills of America's adults adequate ... to ensure individual opportunities for all adults, to increase worker productivity, or to strengthen America's competitiveness around the world?" The NALS report answered the question as, "Because it is impossible to say precisely what literacy skills are essential for individuals to succeed in this or any other society, the results of the National Adult Literacy Survey provide no firm answers to such questions" (Kirsch, Jungeblut, Jenkins, & Kolstad, 1993, p. xviii). Product #3. Interpret the findings related to information-processing skills and strategies in a way that can inform curriculum decisions pertaining to the education and training of adults. Consistent with Venezky's (1992) concerns, Congress wanted information regarding instructional "remedies" that might be taken to improve adults' literacy skills. The developers of the NALS suggested that adult basic skills programs should be geared to improving adults' skills in prose, document and quantitative (PDQ) literacy (Mosenthal & Kirsch, 1994). Indeed, researchers at the Educational Testing Service worked on an interactive video, computer-based instructional series that would teach document literacy skills. A small pilot study with a group of some 10-12 adult basic skills students indicated that, while students made improvements in document literacy, they made three to four times as much gains on prose and quantitative literacy tests as on the document literacy tests. This led the instructor who administered the pilot course to observe that, "The gains were interesting considering the PDQ curriculum did not include instruction in these skills." Reder (1994) has indicated that the three scales correlate above +.90 (overlap of some 80 percent) suggesting that they draw upon the same underlying cognitive system with its knowledge base and working memory processes. For this reason, it is to be expected that many language and processes developed in one domain may be available to other domains because they all draw on the same cognitive system. The results of the pilot instructional program would seem consistent with this theoretical point of view (which was not part of any view put forth by the NALS/IALS framework). It seems to me that putting some resources into the formulation of a theory of literacy that is both teacher and research based, and that could account for the large overlap among the three NALS/IALS scales would be a valuable course of action. It might reduce the need for three separate scales and permit a more cost-effective approach to a national assessment of adult literacy skills. It might also provide a bridge from the national assessment to local adult literacy education practices. References: Citations are given in:Sticht, T. (1999, April). Using Telephone and Mail Surveys as a Supplement or Alternative to Door-to-Door Surveys in the Assessment of Adult Literacy. Washington, DC: U. S. Department of Education, National Center for Education Statistics, Education Statistics Service Institute (ESSI). Venezky, R. L. (1992,May). Matching literacy testing with social policy: what are the alternatives? Policy Brief Document No. PB92-1. National Center on Adult Literacy, University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, PA. From DJRosen at world.std.com Tue Nov 23 17:18:35 1999 From: DJRosen at world.std.com (David J Rosen) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 17:18:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: NLA Info: Conference Board Report on line Message-ID: <199911232315.SAA17374@europe.std.com> NLA Colleagues, The Conference Board report on Workplace Education, Turning Skills Into Profit, referred to here a few days ago, is available online in PDF at http://www.conference-board.org/products/frames.cfm?main=research.cfm David J. Rosen NLA List Moderator From Alice_Johnson at nifl.gov Wed Nov 24 13:53:32 1999 From: Alice_Johnson at nifl.gov (Johnson, Alice) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 13:53:32 -0500 Subject: NLA Info: Conference Board Report on line Message-ID: <199911242020.PAA15435@europe.std.com> As the title suggests, the report makes a strong case to business leaders that it is in their best interest to invest in the skills of their workers. A two-page summary of the report is available on LINCS (www.nifl.gov). See the July 28, 1999 Policy Update. __________________________ Alice Johnson National Institute for Literacy 1775 Eye Street, NW, Suite 730 Washington, DC 20006-2401 alice_johnson at nifl.gov 202-233-2034 (voice) 202-233-2050 (fax) Institute's Homepage: www.nifl.gov > -----Original Message----- > From: David J Rosen [SMTP:DJRosen at world.std.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 5:19 PM > To: nla at world.std.com > Subject: NLA Info: Conference Board Report on line > > NLA Colleagues, > > The Conference Board report on Workplace Education, Turning Skills Into > Profit, > referred to here a few days ago, is available online in PDF at > > http://www.conference-board.org/products/frames.cfm?main=research.cfm > > David J. Rosen > NLA List Moderator > From DJRosen at world.std.com Wed Nov 24 13:41:36 1999 From: DJRosen at world.std.com (David J Rosen) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 13:41:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: NLA Info: Thursday Notes Message-ID: <199911242023.PAA15759@europe.std.com> [Crossposetd from NIFL-Workplace] This message is a cross post from Rose Tilghman: >From the Desk of Ronald S. Pugsley, Director, DAEL Office of Vocational and Adult Education Editor: Sarah Newcomb Production: Rose Tilghman November 25, 1999 __________________________________ AppropriationsUp for Adult Ed Final FY 2000 appropriations figures are in, and the amount for the incentive grants has been calculated. Here is the break-down of the $470 million appropriation for next year: * Adult education state grants: $417.2M * English Literacy/Civics Education 25.5 * Incentives 7.3 * National Leadership 14.0 * National Institute for Literacy 6.0 Live Webcast for EL/Civics Grant If your organization is interested in applying for the new English Literacy/Civics grants, don't miss our live webcast December 15 at 1 PM EST. This overview of the program with questions and answers will be offered over the web and via satellite telecast. Coordinates for the telecast are C-Band: GE-1, Transponder C-1, Downlink Frequency 3720 MHz, Horizontal, Orbit 103 degrees West. To access the webcast or to get Ku Band coordinates when they become available, contact Rebecca Moak at rebecca_moak at ed.gov Washington-Area School Offers Parents Translation Montgomery County schools, a Washington, DC area suburban district, announced last week that it will provide translation services by telephone in 140 languages for parents who do not speak English. The service will be available to schools and more than 30 administrative offices that deal with the public. When a person who does not speak English calls or comes to a school system office, staff will call the privately run Language Line service and an interpreter will be provided within minutes, school officials said. The service also is available for teachers or other staff who need to contact parents or guardians who do not speak English. While it is unclear how much this will cost the district, the system will be charged on a per-call basis. The new service may provide more evidence of the need for adult education's English language classes. See http://www.washingtonpost.com for 11/17/99 issue. Parenting Skills Key in Children's Early Literacy A new study by Loyola's Fred Morrison and Creighton University's Ramie Cooney identifies several aspects of parenting critical to early literacy development in children. The study shows the quality "family learning environment,"-such as talking to and reading to children or having books in the home-directly influences the growth of children's literacy skills. But other parenting behaviors also are highly important, the study says. The parental beliefs, parental responsiveness and discipline contribute to literacy acquisition. They help children build social skills that shape academic achievement in the early school years. So to promote literacy acquisition in children, focusing on the family learning environment is not enough. The study also recommends that parents recognize how early literacy skills can emerge and not wait until children enter school to help them learn language and pre-math skills. Contact fmorris at luc.edu ____________________________________________________________ A Fact Sheet from the Division of Adult Education and Literacy Office of Vocational and Adult Education OVAE Homepage http://www.ed.gov/offices/OVAE/ From millard at netins.net Wed Nov 24 23:36:22 1999 From: millard at netins.net (Archie Willard) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 22:36:22 -0600 Subject: NLA CONGRATULATONS: Adult Learner Chair of Literacy Coalition Message-ID: <199911251405.JAA05954@europe.std.com> Pat Blackwell, an adult learner from Bloomington, IN was recently elected chairperson of the Indiana Literacy Coalition for the year 2000. To be on the Indiana Literacy Coalition you must be appointed by the Governor of Indiana. The people on this coalition come from different walks of life with experiences within literacy. Pat has been a member of the coalition for a number of years. Pat is also one of the founding members of VALUE and is one its 11 board members. She has done public speaking, served on many literacy committees and brought awareness to society. Pat has worked hard with her reading and has overcome many of her literacy problems. She now works as a nurse. Pat is a good example of what adult learners can do with their lives and proves that adult learners can contribute on committees and boards. I hope that other states will give adult learners opportunities to serve on their state committees. CONGRATULATIONS, PAT!!! -- Archie Willard Eagle Grove, IA 50533 (US) millard at netins.net FAX - 515-448-3480 URL - http://207.28.234.137/archiew.html From sgabb412 at hotmail.com Sat Nov 27 09:47:29 1999 From: sgabb412 at hotmail.com (Sally Gabb) Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 06:47:29 PST Subject: NLA Discussion: Civics or civic participation? Same or different? Message-ID: <199911271741.MAA06515@europe.std.com> Hi Loren and all - Finally got to this posting - I am completing a small inquiry project with two immigrant learners who have expressed special interest in US government. We have done some history reading, discussed the idea of 'history through whose eyes' - and examined the nature of citizen 'power' in our 'democratic' government. The two subjects have each interviewed four other immigrant learners using a survey which we created together. We have chosen to examine how other learners thought about US government prior to arriving, how their ideas have changed, and what influences affected their thinking. I will be completing the survey transcription, and our conclusions during December. I have confronted the exact issues you are highlighting: These two learners are eager to learn about US history, how the US government system came into being. Neither has much formal education, so the task of filling in knowledge gaps is formidable. I have tried to emphasize that written histories are not 'fact' or 'truth', but rather, a set of selected facts, chosen and interpreted by the person who wrote them down. I am eager to be part of ongoing effort to look at these issues. I will post the final document for this small inquiry on the Literacy Resources Rhode Island inquiry page when done. Would also love to hear of other efforts?? I also have MANY questions about the intent of this 'civic education' funding. Sally Gabb The Genesis Center Providence, RI >From: Loren McGrail >Reply-To: nla at europe.std.com >To: nla at world.std.com >Subject: NLA Discussion: Civics or civic participation? Same or different? >Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 09:46:22 -0500 (EST) > >[Cross-posted from NIFL-ESL] > >Dear Colleagues, > >I am interested to know from my colleagues what they think about this >civics >education initiative. Specifically, do people see civics education the same >or different from EFF's concept of civic participation or community action >as >we call it here at Literacy South? How will it work for programs that serve >undocumented immigrants? or farmworkers? Is this a call to teach US history >and >government? If so, Through whose eyes? I am interested in other people's >thoughts about these issues as we all begin to prepare project designs. >Perhaps there is even a consensus around some of these ideas that could >support a coalition of some kind. > >For those colleagues in the Southeast who see the opportunity here to >explore civic participation activities, Literacy South would like to >connect >with state staff developers or programs who might want to participate in a >regional demonstration project along these lines. As some of you know >already, >Literacy South has already done some work in this area in our >citizenship/civic participation project last year in North Carolina and >with >our curriculum development project around the Census 2000 this year. >Please contact me directly at the address below if you or your state is >interested in working with us. > >I look forward to hearing these issues discussed through the listserv >and from my southern colleagues directly. Thank you. > > >PS Our annotated bibiliography on citizenship/civic participation is >now available through ERIC. >-- > >Loren McGrail >Executive Director, Literary South >lmcgrail at mindspring.com >www.literacysouth.org > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From DJRosen at world.std.com Sat Nov 27 12:45:11 1999 From: DJRosen at world.std.com (David J Rosen) Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 12:45:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: NLA Info: Dates Ron Pugsley will be on the NLA List Message-ID: <199911272005.PAA19816@europe.std.com> NLA Colleagues, The Director of the U.S. Department of Education's Division of Adult Education and Literacy, Ron Pugsley, will be here with us on December 6th, 7th, and 13th to answer questions and discuss the Workforce Investment Act, the Adult Education and Family Literacy Act, and the National Reporting System. I would like to suggest that you pose your questions now. Should you wish to do some reading on these acts, here are some Web pages with (or useful links to) pertinent documents: http://novel.nifl.gov http://www.air.org/nrs http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Swearer_Center/Literacy_Resources/ standards.html http://www2.wgbh.org/mbcweis/ltc/alri/advocacy.html (the national section) David J. Rosen NLA List Moderator From millard at netins.net Sat Nov 27 14:18:50 1999 From: millard at netins.net (millard at netins.net) Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 13:18:50 -0600 Subject: NLA Info: LVA NATIONAL CONFERENCE Message-ID: <199911272011.PAA20289@europe.std.com> To All, November 9-12 I attended the LVA National Conference in Nashville, TN. It was a well-organized conference. A lot of people from the LVA family did a lot of hard work to see that this conference served everyone. It was estimated that about 100 adult learners were at the conference. I attended meetings that were being held at the same time as the conference so I did not get to talk with adult learners or see their activities as much I would have liked. I did have the opportunity to meet 3 people with whom I had been exchanging e-mail. It was nice to see them in person. The Thursday morning student breakfast sticks out in my mind. The adult learners were asked to come up on the stage and to introduce themselves as adult learners one at a time. This was an emotional moment for everyone. Then all the adult learners stood together and a group picture was taken. As I stood with this group I said to myself, ?I?m proud to be an adult learner?. There were two important things that I took home from the conference: (1) There was a demonstration using computer software that could read aloud. The computer could read e-mail and many other things to you. It read a book to me as I was following along reading the book at the same time. It had 8 voices (4 male, 4 female) that could be used and the speed and the volume could be adjusted. This is a very important break-through for adult learners to use. If I were a younger age I would take advantage of this technology and go on to higher education. I encourage you as adult learners to use this technology in your education. (2) At the conference I had the opportunity to talk with some people from Rhode Island about their Bill Of Rights that was passed for adult students to have the right to learn. This is important legislation. Adult learners and leaders from other states should try to get this kind of legislation passed to keep adult education a place where we as adults who learn differently are able to learn freely in the way we need to learn. Legislation will be needed for us to get the accommodations we need to learn (such as the software I mentioned above). Educators are testing for the ability to read and how fast we can read, instead trying to find out the information the student knows. We as adult learners need to think about how we can make changes and to learn how to talk to the policy makers and legislators. Lastly, I want to thank LVA for a good conference. You have made the lives of many adult learners better. -- Archie Willard Eagle Grove, IA 50533 (US) millard at netins.net FAX - 515-448-3480 URL - http://207.28.234.137/archiew.html From Ronald_Pugsley at ed.gov Sun Nov 28 07:38:38 1999 From: Ronald_Pugsley at ed.gov (Pugsley, Ronald) Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 07:38:38 -0500 Subject: NLA Info: Dates Ron Pugsley will be on the NLA List Message-ID: <199911281255.HAA09817@europe.std.com> Thanks David. I look forward to the exchange of ideas. For those of you participating, Title 2 of WIA is essential background for the discussion on the new National Reporting System (NRS). Also, make sure you scan the information on NRS which you can find on our WEB pages. -----Original Message----- From: David J Rosen [mailto:DJRosen at world.std.com] Sent: Saturday, November 27, 1999 12:45 PM To: nla at world.std.com Subject: NLA Info: Dates Ron Pugsley will be on the NLA List NLA Colleagues, The Director of the U.S. Department of Education's Division of Adult Education and Literacy, Ron Pugsley, will be here with us on December 6th, 7th, and 13th to answer questions and discuss the Workforce Investment Act, the Adult Education and Family Literacy Act, and the National Reporting System. I would like to suggest that you pose your questions now. Should you wish to do some reading on these acts, here are some Web pages with (or useful links to) pertinent documents: http://novel.nifl.gov http://www.air.org/nrs http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Swearer_Center/Literacy_Resources/ standards.html http://www2.wgbh.org/mbcweis/ltc/alri/advocacy.html (the national section) David J. Rosen NLA List Moderator From Ralei at aol.com Mon Nov 29 10:57:05 1999 From: Ralei at aol.com (Ralei at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 10:57:05 EST Subject: NLA: Question for Ron Pugsley Message-ID: <199911291630.LAA00846@europe.std.com> Ron: What is the US Department Education doing to ensure that programs that serve the lowest level learner are not effectively excluded from funding as a result of the outcomes and reporting systems being established under WIA/AEFLA? Bill Raleigh former Director of Government Affairs Laubach Literacy From Dwyoho at aol.com Mon Nov 29 11:52:42 1999 From: Dwyoho at aol.com (Dwyoho at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 11:52:42 EST Subject: NLA CONGRATULATONS: Adult Learner Chair of Literacy Coalition Message-ID: <199911292106.QAA20445@europe.std.com> Archie: If you have the time, please share a little about the Coalition--its purpose, makeup and how it got started. Thanks. Fondly, Debbie Deborah W. Yoho Chief Executive Officer Greater Columbia Literacy Council 921 Woodrow Street Columbia, SC 29205 803/765-2555 dwyoho at aol.com From gbitterl at sdccd.cc.ca.us Mon Nov 29 12:18:59 1999 From: gbitterl at sdccd.cc.ca.us (Gretchen Bitterlin) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 09:18:59 -0800 Subject: NLA: Question for Ron Pugsley Message-ID: <199911292108.QAA20797@europe.std.com> David, I have the following question for Ron Pugsley: Rumors are that the Federal Government is only looking at standardized test scores from tests such as CASAS to measure literacy learning gains. Is this true or is it possible that other measures could be used, such as portfolio documentation that demonstrates level gain according to specific statewide criteria ? Please comment on this issue. Gretchen Bitterlin ESL Coordinator Continuing Education Centers San Diego Community College District -----Original Message----- From: David J Rosen [mailto:DJRosen at world.std.com] Sent: Saturday, November 27, 1999 9:45 AM To: nla at world.std.com Subject: NLA Info: Dates Ron Pugsley will be on the NLA List NLA Colleagues, The Director of the U.S. Department of Education's Division of Adult Education and Literacy, Ron Pugsley, will be here with us on December 6th, 7th, and 13th to answer questions and discuss the Workforce Investment Act, the Adult Education and Family Literacy Act, and the National Reporting System. I would like to suggest that you pose your questions now. Should you wish to do some reading on these acts, here are some Web pages with (or useful links to) pertinent documents: http://novel.nifl.gov http://www.air.org/nrs http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Swearer_Center/Literacy_Resources/ standards.html http://www2.wgbh.org/mbcweis/ltc/alri/advocacy.html (the national section) David J. Rosen NLA List Moderator From mtait at literacyvolunteers.org Mon Nov 29 12:22:56 1999 From: mtait at literacyvolunteers.org (Marsha Tait) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 12:22:56 -0500 Subject: NLA Info: LVA NATIONAL CONFERENCE Message-ID: <199911300011.TAA20411@europe.std.com> Thank you for doing this, Archie. It makes us all feel great to know our efforts were appreciated! Stay in touch... Marsha L. Tait President Literacy Volunteers of America, Inc. 635 James St. Syracuse, NY 13203 (315) 472-0001 http:www.literacyvolunteers.org -----Original Message----- From: millard at netins.net [SMTP:millard at netins.net] Sent: Saturday, November 27, 1999 2:19 PM To: nla at world.std.com Subject: NLA Info: LVA NATIONAL CONFERENCE << File: ATT00002.txt; charset = unknown-8bit >> From kbeall at literacyvolunteers.org Mon Nov 29 14:19:25 1999 From: kbeall at literacyvolunteers.org (Kaye Beall) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 14:19:25 -0500 Subject: NLA CONGRATULATIONS: Adult Learner Chair of Literacy Coalition Message-ID: <199911300040.TAA24605@europe.std.com> We are delighted to have Pat as the incoming chairperson of the Indiana Adult Literacy Coalition. I am sure that she will move the coalition forward in its work to promote lifelong learning and to encourage coordination of adult literacy activities . . . and to advocate for the student perspective. As a coalition member, I'm looking forward to Pat's leadership. Kaye Kaye Beall Program Development Director Literacy Volunteers of America, Inc. P. O. Box 20 Warren, IN 46792 219-375-2329 tel. & fax kbeall at literacyvolunteers.org www.literacyvolunteers.org On Wednesday, November 24, 1999 11:36 PM, Archie Willard [SMTP:millard at netins.net] wrote: > > Pat Blackwell, an adult learner from Bloomington, IN was recently > elected chairperson of the Indiana Literacy Coalition for the year > 2000. From kbeall at literacyvolunteers.org Mon Nov 29 20:26:23 1999 From: kbeall at literacyvolunteers.org (Kaye Beall) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 20:26:23 -0500 Subject: NLA info: Indiana Adult Literacy Coalition Message-ID: <199911300337.WAA20127@europe.std.com> The Indiana Adult Literacy Coalition was established as a one-year task force in 1983, based on the model provided by the National Coalition on Literacy in 1980. The Governor's Voluntary Action Program, Department of Education, and the State Library collaborated to advocate for, staff, and support the coalition in the early years as a task force. In 1986 the Indiana Adult Literacy Coalition was legislatively authorized for a ten year period; the authorization was renewed for another ten years in 1996. With the new authorization six state agencies concerned with the mission of the coalition are involved--state library and historical society, department of workforce development, department of correction, office of the secretary of family and social services, department of commerce, and department of education. Appointed members of the coalition represent the general assembly, adult basic education programs, local libraries, community based organizations, local literacy coalitions, business and industry, labor, associations involved with promoting adult literacy in Indiana, the Indiana Literacy Foundation, higher education, and persons who have benefited from adult literacy programs. The governor established the advisory adult literacy coalition to (1) promote lifelong learning for Indiana residents so that Indiana residents may participate fully in family, community, civic, employment, and educational opportunities and (2) encourage the coordination of state agency activity related to adult literacy. Activities have included statewide conferences on literacy, training for local literacy coalitions, adult learner essay contests, student congresses, newsletters, and coordination. A survey of adult literacy services was made in 1997, and a survey of family literacy services is currently being conducted. The work of the coalition has evolved since its inception in the early 80's, though developing student leadership and recognizing students have been an on-going activities for the coalition. Kaye Kaye Beall Program Development Director Literacy Volunteers of America, Inc. P. O. Box 20 Warren, IN 46792 219-375-2329 tel. & fax kbeall at literacyvolunteers.org www.literacyvolunteers.org On Monday, November 29, 1999 11:53 AM, Dwyoho at aol.com [SMTP:Dwyoho at aol.com] wrote: > > Archie: If you have the time, please share a little about the Coalition--its > > purpose, makeup and how it got started. Thanks. Fondly, Debbie > > Deborah W. Yoho > Chief Executive Officer > Greater Columbia Literacy Council > 921 Woodrow Street > Columbia, SC 29205 > 803/765-2555 dwyoho at aol.com > From alzbec at interaccess.com Mon Nov 29 20:25:12 1999 From: alzbec at interaccess.com (Aliza Becker) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 19:25:12 -0600 Subject: NLA Info: English Literacy/Civics Education Grants Workshops Message-ID: <199911300336.WAA20085@europe.std.com> I thought this would be of interest to many of the listserve members. We will have several on-site application workshops. The schedule is as follows: > Dec. 6, 9 a.m. -1 p.m.; Chicago IL. Illinois State Board of Education, > James R. Thompson Center, 100 West Randolph, Room #2-025, Chicago, IL > 60601 > > Dec. 7, 10 a.m. -1 p.m.; San Antonio TX, Watson Fine Art Theater, St. > Philips College, 1801 Martin Luther King Drive, San Antonio, TX 78203 > > Dec. 10; 8:30-11 a.m. and at 1:30-3:00 p.m. San Diego, CA San Diego > County Office of Education, 6401 Linda Vista Road. San Diego CA > > Dec. 10; 10a.m. -1 p.m. in Washington D.C. FB 6 400 Maryland Ave, SW > Barnard Auditorium > Satellite downlinks are on OVAE's website. The location or airing comes > from the HUD studio in Washington D.C. on December 15, 1999, 1-2 p.m.EST > > You may register for a satellite downlink through the following URL; > > http://stm.xpandcorp.com/ > > A simultaneous web cast can be access at the following URL on December 15, > 1999 from 1 p.m. - 2 p.m. EST > > The link for the videoconference stream follows: > > http://www.iti-corp.com/doed/live.htm > > Rebecca > > Rebecca J. Moak, Ph.D. > Educational Specialist > Office of Vocational and Adult Education -- Aliza Becker Phone: (773) 267-0746 Fax (773) 478-5091 E-mail alzbec at interaccess.com From JCretella at aol.com Mon Nov 29 21:33:52 1999 From: JCretella at aol.com (JCretella at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 21:33:52 EST Subject: NLA: Questions for Ron Pugsley Message-ID: <199911300340.WAA20687@europe.std.com> David... One question I would like to have Ron address is How Federal ABE funds are distributed? Many people don't realize that there is an established formula. Perhaps Ron could speak to it. Also there is a state-by-state list of funds. How can someone access it? And lastly, How much discretion do states have when they distribute federal funds within a state? Thanks, Jcretella at aol.com From tsticht at aznet.net Mon Nov 29 20:53:54 1999 From: tsticht at aznet.net (Thomas Sticht) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 17:53:54 -0800 Subject: NLA Remembrance: Lives to celebrate Message-ID: <199911300341.WAA20842@europe.std.com> David: The following is for you and the NLA list members. Tom Sticht Two Lives To Celebrate I learned this day that the world of reading has lost two shining lights in just the last two months. It was my great fortune to have had my own life illuminated by them both - but for drastically different reasons. One of these lights, Jeanne Chall of Harvard University, was one of my dearest friends and greatest professional colleagues. Today I learned that Jeanne had died this last weekend of November. Jeanne was instrumental in getting me a visiting professorship at the Harvard Graduate School of Education in 1975. During my six months there my wife, Jan, and I had our third child, our daughter Stefanie. Jeanne was ecstatic about our new baby and was constantly asking about her and Jan and she was quick to them give lots of hugs at parties. As well as a close personal relationship, Jeanne and I had a very sympatico professional relationship. We used to love to have lunch at Harvard Square at an old restaurant, now closed, that had sawdust on the floor and made terrific liver and onions, one of Jeanne's favorites. We discussed lots of issues in reading that later turned up in her second greatest work, Stages of Reading Development. After I left HGSE, Jeanne started working with adults in the Reading Laboratory and today several graduate students have built on her seminal work and are making contributions to adult literacy research, practice, and policy. Over the years we have stayed in touch. Whenever I was in Cambridge we would have lunch at a great German restaurant on the square, also now closed. I will deeply miss Jeanne's brilliance, great sense of professionalism, scholarly work, and her love of children and reading. The second great light in reading that has been extinguished recently is that of Leo Lionni. Leo died in October of this year. While I knew him only in passing, I met him at a conference on literacy in 1980, his work greatly impressed me as it has impressed thousands of teachers and hundreds of thousands of children around the world over the years. Leo Lionni was a successful illustrator and artist at Fortune magazine when, at age fifty years he started writing and illustrating children's books. And they are great books indeed. His first book, Little Blue and Little Yellow is one of the simplest, most elegantly presented stories to teach tolerance of visible, color differences that I have ever read. At the conference where I met him he gave me a pre-publication copy of his newest book, Let's Make Rabbits and he signed it for my youngest daughter, Lindsay. Over the years I saw Leo Lionni's works of reading books for children grow and four of them have been chosen as Caldecott Honor Books. I am profoundly honored to have known these two champions of reading. And while I am deeply saddened by their departures, I am thankful for the works they have created. While pursued in different directions, their works come around to focus on one simple sight, children and parents reading an enthralling book together. What great lives. What a great future they foretell! Tom Sticht From eiwalch at hotmail.com Tue Nov 30 06:41:34 1999 From: eiwalch at hotmail.com (Erica I. Walch) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:41:34 -0500 Subject: NLA: Question For Ron Pugsley Message-ID: <199911301305.IAA19071@europe.std.com> Along the same lines as assessment and funding - what about learners who aren't working and don't have "attaining employment" as one of their goals? I'm thinking of students who are elderly, or who receive disability benefits, or who are homemakers. Will the fact that their goals do not fit into DOE funding goal frameworks adversely affect a program's funding? Erica Walch Instructor Read-Write-Now Adult Learning Center Springfield, MA From Ronald_Pugsley at ed.gov Tue Nov 30 08:45:45 1999 From: Ronald_Pugsley at ed.gov (Pugsley, Ronald) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 08:45:45 -0500 Subject: NLA Remembrance: Lives to celebrate Message-ID: <199911301359.IAA25936@europe.std.com> Tom, thank you for sharing these thoughts....ron From rkrawiec at mindspring.com Tue Nov 30 10:36:42 1999 From: rkrawiec at mindspring.com (rkrawiec at mindspring.com) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 10:36:42 -0500 Subject: NLA: Question For Ron Pugsley Message-ID: <199911301646.LAA29021@europe.std.com> Along a similar line, What about students who aren't even ready for education yet, those students we're trying to get back into the process? I work with a lot of homeless people, and it's a great success if you can even get them to come to 1 or 2 classes, and then somewhere 6 months later, a few more, and eventually after a year or two take the risk to commit. I remember one student in particular we worked with for over 4 years. She'd come to a few classes, drop out. Enter a GED program, drop out. She did this in 3 different states. But she kept coming back to Raleigh because that's where she found the safest learning environment. After 4 years, we were finally able to help her deal, in writing, with her incest - and this was something she steadfastly refused to explore with any counselors or social workers she ever had. She was only comfortable dealing with it in a classroom setting where she felt she had supportive peers. Well, once she wrote it all out, she entered a GED class and completed all her work for a degree. Under this new framework, is it even possible to work with students who only show up once or twice every 6 months? And what are we supposed to do with people who will walk out of a class before they'll take a test to determine their level because they've had such negative experiences with testing and judgement? Isn't there the distinct possibility that if we operate under the DOE guidelines we will be excluding the very people most in need of education, those least capable, at this moment, of fitting the assessment needs of the government? Rich -----Original Message----- From: Erica I. Walch To: nla at world.std.com Date: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 8:05 AM Subject: NLA: Question For Ron Pugsley >Along the same lines as assessment and funding - what about learners who >aren't working and don't have "attaining employment" as one of their >goals? I'm thinking of students who are elderly, or who receive >disability benefits, or who are homemakers. Will the fact that their >goals do not fit into DOE funding goal frameworks adversely affect a >program's funding? > >Erica Walch >Instructor >Read-Write-Now Adult Learning Center >Springfield, MA > > From JAWCFL at aol.com Tue Nov 30 12:17:42 1999 From: JAWCFL at aol.com (JAWCFL at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 12:17:42 EST Subject: NLA: Question For Ron Pugsley Message-ID: <199911301750.MAA11581@europe.std.com> What about students who are a member of a special population including those in psychosocial rehabilitation or members of the deaf community? How does the National Reporting System relate to special populations? JoAnn Weinberger Center for Literacy From gdemetrion at juno.com Tue Nov 30 15:55:26 1999 From: gdemetrion at juno.com (gdemetrion at juno.com) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 15:55:26 -0500 Subject: NLA: Questions for Ron Pugsley Message-ID: <199911302153.QAA21917@europe.std.com> Ron: I have several questions. I realize time may preclude your ability to answer them all and others have asked importantquestions. Therefore you may need to be selective here, but the thrust shows, I trust, some of the range of my concerns. Some of the questions (below) I previously posted. But now since David officially made the call for questions, let me re-ask and add a question or two. 1. Could you provide an overview of how we got from the National Literacy Act of 1991 to the Workforce Investment Act of 1998? Can you include an analysis of the political permutations involved in this shift, particularly on the link between ABE and labor? I'm aware of Act II, but I'm interested in why ABE/literacy was subsumed within a workforce paradigm in the first place? 2. If, according to the NALS statistics, over 90 million adults experience some significant deficiency in meeting the basic print demands of our society (not necesarily my assumption) and if all the ABE and literacy programs combine provide services to about 10% of that population, and of that 10% there is, say, a 50% drop out rate during the first year (Quigley puts that at 74%), then (regardless of the specific numbers--still high by anyone's count) how important of an issue, beyond rhetoric, really, is adult literacy from a federal policy perspective, and if important, for what sets of reasons? 3. Put in somewhat different terms, do current levels of literacy meet the functional needs of society to stabilize the status quo, including the current distribution of power, wealth, and social standing? 4. To what extent does government policy on literacy/adult basic education need to be responsive to the most compelling insights of our best researchers, theorists and practititioners? In other terms, should the insights from the field drive policy or should policy mandates shape the field even if our best field insights demonstrate the inappropriateness of policy? To what extent do you feel the WIA and NRS is shaped by such research and practice? 5. What is your position of Juliet Merrifield's argument that the various constituents of adult literacy education/ABE need to be mutually accountable to each other and that policy needs to be negotiated among the constituents through uncoerced and, in effect, "equal access" discourse? And following that, do you view the WIA and NRS as top-down mandates or policy that has emerged through negotiation among the wide consitituency that comprise adult literacy/ABE, or perhaps some combination, thereof? 6. Would you comment on the following, posted on the NLA this fall? The inherent problem with holding local programs directly accountable under the NRS system is that local programs cannot set their own parameters or measures of success. What difference does a learners' Bill of Rights mean, if the only "core" measures of success are: got a job advanced a level got a GED The inherent problem with the NRS is that it doesn't include or measure the basic foundations of adult education; ie: a learner centered approach that meets the needs of the student. 7. Do you agree with John Comings that, at bottom, Congress is asking a very simple question that "Congress may want a lot less than we think. Our field has interpreted the call for accountability to mean that we must measure increases in skill and improvements in the lives of every adult student. In fact, I believe that Congress is asking a simple question: "What do we get for our investment in ABE/ESL/GED programs?" 7a (somewhat related). Could you discuss the policy evolution of the WIA, partricularly the NRS in its various transmutations between "what Congress" wanted and what emerged among the various legislative aides, D.C. think tanks, and literacy/ABE lobbyists that perhaps shaped the details of the policy? 8. In his last three Research Notes, Tom Sticht, in my opinion, leveled quite a strong critque against policy mandates like the NRS. Tom said a lot in these Research Notes. Could you comment in particular on the following: "These sorts of data raise the question of just how literacy ability should be represented. Is it well represented as "levels," like an onion with a core and successive layers of growth out to some current "level?" Or perhaps as "levels" in geological strata? Or would it be more useful to think in terms of networks of specialized domains of knowledge interrelated by the use of common vocabulary words (and , but ,the, over, etc.) and a limited set of syntactical rules for selecting and sequencing parts of words into new words (e.g., test, tested) or words into sentences. In this type of representation, growth of any amount in any direction in the knowledge network would count as improvement for accountability purposes. All knowledge that a person possesses or develops could accrue to the person's "accountability account" (perhaps in a portfolio). Presently, the dominant metaphor seems to encourage the "banking" metaphor criticized by Paulo Freire. The adult's head is considered as a bucket and, using our dipsticks (tests) we determine that the head is filled, say, to the 3rd grade level. The educator's job then is to pour in more cognitive "fluid" to raise the level up to the 9th grade and eventually the GED level as measured by our cognitive dipsticks. At the very least, it seems to me that some attention should be given to the pervasive use of the "levels" metaphor in attempts to characterize adults' literacy abilities. Much more attention to such fundamental matters should be given before anyone espouses the use of our present stock of "literacy dipsticks" to hold programs and their learners accountable for "continuous improvements" in learning." a) if you disagree with Tom, why and how? b) if you agree with Tom's analysis, on what basis do you justify the NRS other than on the grounds that it is the law? 9 (if time permits) How would you respond in general to the quite profound critique of the NRS leveled across the land of literacy this fall on the NLA coming from a range of diverse sectors? Does govt need to be responsive to these voices from the field and, in your opinion, does or should the NLA, in all of its diversity serve as the Fourth Estate for ABE/Literacy that should be tapped into and consulted *before* and while policy is being established? Should policy formulations emerge in part *from* discussions on the NLA? Thank Ron. George Demetrion LVA-Connecticut River East GDemetrion at juno.com --------- End forwarded message ---------- ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. From agopalak at crec.org Tue Nov 30 17:50:46 1999 From: agopalak at crec.org (Ajit Gopalakrishnan) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 17:50:46 -0500 Subject: NLA: Question for Ron Pugsley Message-ID: <199911302317.SAA05096@europe.std.com> Ron, Thanks for taking the time to be available to the NLA audience. My question is with respect to sampling. What was the reasoning behind the NRS not allowing for any type of sampling of students? If I understand correctly, the NRS requires educational gains data from all students in all programs in the state. Was the possibility of doing say a stratified sampling that could have included all programs in a state, considered? If yes, what was the reasoning behind excluding it from the NRS? Thank you. Ajit Ajit Gopalakrishnan Capitol Region Education Council (CREC) 111 Charter Oak Avenue Hartford, CT 06106 (860) 524-4036 agopalak at crec.org > -----Original Message----- > From: David J Rosen [SMTP:DJRosen at world.std.com] > Sent: Saturday, November 27, 1999 12:45 PM > To: nla at world.std.com > Subject: NLA Info: Dates Ron Pugsley will be on the NLA List > > > NLA Colleagues, > > The Director of the U.S. Department of Education's Division of Adult > Education and Literacy, Ron Pugsley, will be here with us on December 6th, > 7th, and 13th to answer questions and discuss the Workforce Investment > Act, the Adult Education and Family Literacy Act, and the National > Reporting System. > > I would like to suggest that you pose your questions now. Should you wish > to do some reading on these acts, here are some Web pages with (or useful > links to) pertinent documents: > > > http://novel.nifl.gov > > http://www.air.org/nrs > > http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Swearer_Center/Literacy_Resources/ > standards.html > > http://www2.wgbh.org/mbcweis/ltc/alri/advocacy.html > (the national section) > > > David J. Rosen > NLA List Moderator > > > > > > > >