[AAACE-NLA] Counting dropouts and graduates: still more people left behind

Thu May 8 09:49:43 EDT 2008

Michelle and others,

People may look at the new policy in different ways, for example:

1. The policy would just make clear, and standardize, what is/isn't a  
dropout rate and would allow fairer comparisons between schools,  
districts and states. Now, because "dropout" isn't standardized, some  
school districts and states erroneously appear to have higher or  
lower dropout rates than others.

2. Educators, policy makers and the general public will view this new  
clarity of definition as: on-time high-school graduation = success;  
dropout = failure; dropout + GED, EDP or ADP, or other program that  
allows attainment of standards within one or two more years, or more  
= second-class -- or for those who take longer, third class -- a  
begrudged acknowledgment of "equivalency" that, from the school  
system or state or federal government point of view, doesn't "count".  
This view, I think, will be reinforced by the clarity of "graduate"  
and "dropout". A "graduate"  may be viewed as only someone who  
completes high school graduation requirements on time. It undermines  
the notion of mastery with more time, and of lifelong learning.

A possibly unintended outcome of the proposed policy, reflected in  
the second view, would be unfortunate, and would negate the efforts  
of adults and young adults who take more time to meet the standards  
required of high school graduates. It would not acknowledge and  
reward their slower or differently-paced attainment of high school  
graduation level competency.

I am also concerned,  if public school systems cannot "count" those  
who attain a GED or ADP as graduates, that they will be less willing  
to provide funding for such adult or equivalency programs. I wonder,  
for example, about the California adult schools -- public schools for  
adults funded largely with state dollars. Would this new policy  
affect funding for those schools? I am aware in my state,  
Massachusetts,  of a public school system that provides funding for  
its adult education program to work with young adult students who  
cannot pass the state high stakes test on time. The adult education  
program  has had some success with this, but it takes the student  
longer. Will this adult program still be funded if students who pass  
the high stakes test later, after their class has graduated, cannot  
be counted by the public school system as a graduate?

I raise these issues now, before the new policy is adopted by the  
U.S .Department of Education, so that they might be anticipated and  
avoided.

I understand that the USDOE policy will be based on work done by the  
National Governor's Association. I wonder if anyone on this list is  
aware of an NGA position paper or proposed policy other than the July  
18th 2005  "Graduation Counts" compact [ http://www.nga.org/Files/pdf/ 
0507GRADCOMPACT.PDF ].
In that document I found the following:

With this compact, the undersigned commit to:

  Take steps to implement a standard, four-year adjusted cohort  
graduation rate. States agree to calculate the graduation rate
by dividing the number of on-time graduates in a given year by the  
number of first-time entering ninth graders four years
earlier. Graduates are those receiving a high school diploma. The  
denominator can be adjusted for transfers in and out of the
system and data systems will ideally track individual students with a  
longitudinal student unit record data system. Special
education students and recent immigrants with limited English  
proficiency can be assigned to different cohorts to allow them
more time to graduate.

  Lead efforts to improve state data collection, reporting and  
analysis, and link data systems across the entire education
pipeline from preschool through postsecondary education.

  Take steps to implement additional indicators that provide richer  
information and understanding about outcomes for students
and how well the system is serving them. Additional indicators  
include five- or six-year cohort graduation rates, completion
rates for those earning alternative credentials, in-grade retention  
rates, a college-readiness rate and a high school dropout
rate.

  Report annual progress on the improvement of their state high  
school graduation, completion and dropout rate data.

I interpret this language to mean that on-time graduates "count", and  
that others who eventually graduate are of interest, but may not be  
counted. If that interpretation is correct I see this as a problem. I  
wonder if there are other NGA documents that make this proposed  
policy any clearer.

Do others on this list see potential problems with the proposed  
policy that might be corrected?

David J. Rosen
Adult Literacy Advocate
djrosen at theworld.com

On May 5, 2008, at 4:52 PM, Michelle Carson wrote:

> Would such a regulation affect funding for adult education in your
> state?
>
> I'm not exactly sure how the regulation would affect funding for  
> adult education in Kansas.  Would the increased number of students  
> who dropout give cause for additional funding to adult education?   
> Or would it be more likely that the funding would go to secondary  
> institutions to help improve them?  Whichever the case, I do  
> believe the proposed formula would give a much better picture of  
> the increasing numbers of potential students we are attempting to  
> serve with the dollars we do receive.  Perhaps with the new  
> formula, the number of adults who receive services from an Adult  
> Education program and/or receive the GED would be properly  
> accounted for and the credit given for reclaiming those students  
> who were failed by the educational system.
>
> Would it affect how people view the GED or an adult diploma
> awarded by a public high school?
>
> I believe that not counting the GED achievers in the proposed  
> formula actually is intended to give a clearer picture of how the  
> educational system is performing (or not).   I don't think that the  
> new formula should affect how the GED is perceived.  To me, the  
> formula is not saying GED are not high school graduates, rather, it  
> is making it clear that the traditional high school should not get  
> credit for graduating a student who earns their GED through a non- 
> traditional route and ultimately may have been served by an adult  
> education or other literacy program.
>
> Michelle
>
> Michelle Carson, M.S.
> Associate Director of Adult Education
> Kansas Board of Regents
> 1000 SW Jackson, Suite 520
> Topeka, KS 66612
> phone:  785-368-7359
> fax:        785-296-4526
> e-mail:   mcarson at ksbor.org
>
>
>>>> David Rosen <DJRosen at theworld.com> 4/26/2008 3:29 PM >>>
> Colleagues,
>
> Under a new federal effort to standardize how high school graduation
> rates are calculated nationwide, students who leave school and later
> graduate from adult education programs will still be considered
> dropouts. "In an effort to get a true picture of the nation's high
> school dropout crisis, U.S. Secretary of Education Margaret Spellings
> announced last week that she will require all states to use a single
> federal formula to calculate graduation and dropout rates, forcing
> some states to completely revamp their data processing systems.
> Spellings did not release the specific formula she will require but
> referenced the National Governors Association's graduation rate as a
> model...."
>
> Would such a regulation affect funding for adult education in your
> state? Would it affect how people view the GED or an adult diploma
> awarded by a public high school?
>
> This would increase the national dropout rate, reported recently in
> the America's Promise Alliance study as 30% on average, 50%  in
> cities. If GED and adult diploma holders are counted as dropouts that
> would increase the dropout rate more.
>
> Several years of  "No Child Left Behind"  appear to be leaving many
> more people behind.
>
> http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080407/
> NEWS03/804070336
>
> Short form of Web Address:
> http://tinyurl.com/5xk7e2
>
> David J. Rosen
> Adult Literacy Advocate
> DJRosen at theworld.com
>
>
>
>
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>
> <Michelle Carson.vcf>_______________________________________________
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David J. Rosen
DJRosen at theworld.com

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