[AAACE-NLA] Immigration cont....

Fri Oct 5 10:26:29 EDT 2007

"Sanction" is one of those words with 2 opposite meanings:  1)  to  
forbid, and 2)  to allow.

Andrea

On Oct 4, 2007, at 12:31 PM, Kearney Lykins wrote:

> David,
>
> I think we should be leveling stricter sanctions of illegal labor in  
> three places: the supply, the conduit and the demand. Which does the  
> current dynamic more closely resemble: a vacuum, or a blower?  
> Arguments can be made for both, because both are partly correct.
>
> By the way, I think free Spanish-language public education that is  
> currently provided to the children of illegal immigrants is more of a  
> draw than ESOL classes.
>
> Kearney
>  
>
>
> ----- Original Message  ----
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> To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
> Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2007 12:00:02 PM
> Subject: AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 53, Issue 10
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>    1. Re:  Immigration cont.... (David Rosen)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 18:51:40 -0400
> From: David Rosen <DJRosen at theworld.com>
> Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] Immigration cont....
> To: dwyoho at earthlink.net, National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by
>     AAACE    <aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org>
> Message-ID: <B8ADE2B7-3C7E-41D6-B060-335E24D2F87F at theworld.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Debbie, Kearney and others,
>
> Immigrants, legal or not, come to the U.S. seeking jobs. Some, of  
> course, follow a family member who has come seeking a job.  If there  
> were no jobs for those without legal papers, they wouldn't stay long,  
> and eventually others wouldn't come. In an earlier discussion about  
> this issuse I made the point that some undocumented immigrants, for  
> example in the construction industry,  have been recruited in Mexico  
> by U.S. employers seeking cheap labor.  I do not know of any case of  
> an undocumented immigrant who came to the U.S. primarily to enroll in  
> English classes. Do you?  Arizona law now makes it illegal to serve  
> undocumented immigrants in English classes. Will this deter illegal  
> immigrants? I doubt it.  Does Arizona sanction employers who hire  
> people without legal documents?  Does it sanction businesses hard  
> that recruit undocumented workers? If not, why not? That would be  
> more likely to reduce illegal immigration than fencing and patrolling  
> all of our northern and southern borders.
>
> Of course, companies and individuals that employ undocumented  
> workers, especially those who make and build fences, might see this  
> differently.
>
> David J. Rosen
> DJRosen at theworld.com
>
>
>
> On Oct 3, 2007, at 4:57 PM, Debbie Yoho wrote:
>
> >
> > In a genuine effort to further meaningful discussion about this  
> > topic, I'm going to switch sides for a minute, not just to  play  
> > the "devil's advocate" but because I consider myself a pragmatic  
> > moderate.  To claim THAT I have to keep looking for answers.
> >
> > Let us focus for a moment on the issue of securing the borders.   I  
> > think many can agree it is reasonable and prudent for the US to  
> > police our borders, and that clearly we don't do this well if  
> > millions are able to come across undetected.  I think we can also  
> > agree that the most serious problem is to the south. I think we can  
> > agree that procedures and processes to secure the borders should be  
> > the same, however, both north and south, and that whatever we do  
> > must be humane.  We aren't going to set up thosands of miles of  
> > land mines to keep people out.  So what can be done to secure the  
> > borders?
> >
> >  When I hear about this from the political right the focus is  
> > always on catching people and punishing them. I am willing to  
> > believe that not everyone who wants to  focus on "catch and punish"  
> > is motivated by racism.  But I keep thinking about the feasibility  
> > of such an approach.  It seems to me the problem is a lot like  
> > speed limits.  Many would agree on the necessity and wisdom of  
> > speed limits, but almost everyone I know, including myself,  
> > routinely breaks these laws.  From time to time the highway patrol  
> > concentrates on catching speeders, but the problem doesn't get any  
> > better, and the taxpayer isn't willing to fund a partolman  
> > stationed at every exit on the interstates.   Yet the consequences  
> > of speeding are well-known to be dire.
> >
> > I think no law can be enforced in a democracy without the  
> > cooperation of those who are being regulated,  Kearney would say  
> > that doesn't mean, however, that the law is bad, or should be  
> > ignored, and he is right. A huge segment of our population is  not  
> > cooperating with the immigration laws, for whatever reasons.  But  
> > if we focus on solving the problem of illegal border crossings, it  
> > seems to me that hiring thousands more immigration police, or  
> > building a Great Wall of the United States,  or stringing mile  
> > after mile of electrified fencing can't be the answer. How can we  
> > possibly "secure" all those miles and miles and miles? Illegal  
> > immigrants have already demonstrated they will do whatever it  
> > takes, risking life and limb, to get into the US.  Such measures  
> > might cut down on the problem, but I doubt anyone can reliably  
> > predict whether the results would be worth the effort.  I daresay  
> > if they can't get across over land they will build a raft,  as has  
> > been done, and sail for the nearest coastline.
> >
> > Does anybody have any other ideas? Someone suggested just make it  
> > easier and cheaper to come in legally.  What would be the problem  
> > with that?
> >
> > Deborah W. Yoho
> > director, Turning Pages
> > (formerly the Greater Columbia Literacy Council)
> > a community service of Volunteers of America Carolinas
> > 803-765-255S
> > PO Box 1447 Columbia, SC 29202
> > yohogclc at earthlink.net
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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>
> David Rosen
> DJRosen at theworld.com
>
>
>
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