[AAACE-NLA] Immigration cont....

[Kaizen Program]

Unfortunately, we also need to keep in mind that companies that are
interested in stopping unionization have in the past, and continue to use
potential or actual threats of government sanctions against them, along with
threats to call the federal authorities to come to the workplace, as a way
of intimidating or even deporting workers who are demanding union
organization or even small improvements in wages and working conditions. So,
in the context of present immigration law and policies, sanctions against
employers generally end up hurting the poor impoverished and exploited
workers the most, but don't necessarily stop desperate undocumented
immigrants from crossing the border or employers from utilizing their
services, as long as everything is under the table.

The raids may also very well discourage even documented immigrants from
sending their children to school or attending English classes themselves.
They certainly make very many immigrants afraid of doing anything outside
their homes that isn't absolutely necessary for survival.

Sylvie

Sylvie Kashdan, M.A.
Instructor/Curriculum Coordinator
KAIZEN PROGRAM for New English Learners with Visual Limitations
810-A Hiawatha Place South
Seattle, WA  98144, U.S.A.
phone:  (206) 784-5619
email:  kaizen at literacyworks.org
web:  http://www.nwlincs.org/kaizen/

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Rosen" <DJRosen at theworld.com>
To: <dwyoho at earthlink.net>; "National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by
AAACE" <aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 3:51 PM
Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] Immigration cont....


Debbie, Kearney and others,

Immigrants, legal or not, come to the U.S. seeking jobs. Some, of
course, follow a family member who has come seeking a job.  If there
were no jobs for those without legal papers, they wouldn't stay long,
and eventually others wouldn't come. In an earlier discussion about
this issuse I made the point that some undocumented immigrants, for
example in the construction industry,  have been recruited in Mexico
by U.S. employers seeking cheap labor.  I do not know of any case of
an undocumented immigrant who came to the U.S. primarily to enroll in
English classes. Do you?  Arizona law now makes it illegal to serve
undocumented immigrants in English classes. Will this deter illegal
immigrants? I doubt it.  Does Arizona sanction employers who hire
people without legal documents?  Does it sanction businesses hard
that recruit undocumented workers? If not, why not? That would be
more likely to reduce illegal immigration than fencing and patrolling
all of our northern and southern borders.

Of course, companies and individuals that employ undocumented
workers, especially those who make and build fences, might see this
differently.

David J. Rosen
DJRosen at theworld.com



On Oct 3, 2007, at 4:57 PM, Debbie Yoho wrote:

>
> In a genuine effort to further meaningful discussion about this
> topic, I'm going to switch sides for a minute, not just to  play
> the "devil's advocate" but because I consider myself a pragmatic
> moderate.  To claim THAT I have to keep looking for answers.
>
> Let us focus for a moment on the issue of securing the borders.   I
> think many can agree it is reasonable and prudent for the US to
> police our borders, and that clearly we don't do this well if
> millions are able to come across undetected.  I think we can also
> agree that the most serious problem is to the south. I think we can
> agree that procedures and processes to secure the borders should be
> the same, however, both north and south, and that whatever we do
> must be humane.  We aren't going to set up thosands of miles of
> land mines to keep people out.  So what can be done to secure the
> borders?
>
>  When I hear about this from the political right the focus is
> always on catching people and punishing them. I am willing to
> believe that not everyone who wants to  focus on "catch and punish"
> is motivated by racism.  But I keep thinking about the feasibility
> of such an approach.  It seems to me the problem is a lot like
> speed limits.  Many would agree on the necessity and wisdom of
> speed limits, but almost everyone I know, including myself,
> routinely breaks these laws.  From time to time the highway patrol
> concentrates on catching speeders, but the problem doesn't get any
> better, and the taxpayer isn't willing to fund a partolman
> stationed at every exit on the interstates.   Yet the consequences
> of speeding are well-known to be dire.
>
> I think no law can be enforced in a democracy without the
> cooperation of those who are being regulated,  Kearney would say
> that doesn't mean, however, that the law is bad, or should be
> ignored, and he is right. A huge segment of our population is not
> cooperating with the immigration laws, for whatever reasons.  But
> if we focus on solving the problem of illegal border crossings, it
> seems to me that hiring thousands more immigration police, or
> building a Great Wall of the United States,  or stringing mile
> after mile of electrified fencing can't be the answer. How can we
> possibly "secure" all those miles and miles and miles? Illegal
> immigrants have already demonstrated they will do whatever it
> takes, risking life and limb, to get into the US.  Such measures
> might cut down on the problem, but I doubt anyone can reliably
> predict whether the results would be worth the effort.  I daresay
> if they can't get across over land they will build a raft, as has
> been done, and sail for the nearest coastline.
>
> Does anybody have any other ideas? Someone suggested just make it
> easier and cheaper to come in legally.  What would be the problem
> with that?
>
> Deborah W. Yoho
> director, Turning Pages
> (formerly the Greater Columbia Literacy Council)
> a community service of Volunteers of America Carolinas
> 803-765-255S
> PO Box 1447 Columbia, SC 29202
> yohogclc at earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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David Rosen
DJRosen at theworld.com






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