[AAACE-NLA] Immigration cont....

Thu Oct 4 12:31:14 EDT 2007

David,

I think we should be leveling stricter sanctions of illegal labor in three places: the supply, the conduit and the demand. Which does the current dynamic more closely resemble: a vacuum, or a blower? Arguments can be made for both, because both are partly correct. 

By the way, I think free Spanish-language public education that is currently provided to the children of illegal immigrants is more of a draw than ESOL classes. 

Kearney

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re:  Immigration cont.... (David Rosen)

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Message: 1
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 18:51:40 -0400
From: David Rosen <DJRosen at theworld.com>
Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] Immigration cont....
To: dwyoho at earthlink.net, National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by
    AAACE    <aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org>
Message-ID: <B8ADE2B7-3C7E-41D6-B060-335E24D2F87F at theworld.com>
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Debbie, Kearney and others,

Immigrants, legal or not, come to the U.S. seeking jobs. Some, of  
course, follow a family member who has come seeking a job.  If there  
were no jobs for those without legal papers, they wouldn't stay long,  
and eventually others wouldn't come. In an earlier discussion about  
this issuse I made the point that some undocumented immigrants, for  
example in the construction industry,  have been recruited in Mexico  
by U.S. employers seeking cheap labor.  I do not know of any case of  
an undocumented immigrant who came to the U.S. primarily to enroll in  
English classes. Do you?  Arizona law now makes it illegal to serve  
undocumented immigrants in English classes. Will this deter illegal  
immigrants? I doubt it.  Does Arizona sanction employers who hire  
people without legal documents?  Does it sanction businesses hard  
that recruit undocumented workers? If not, why not? That would be  
more likely to reduce illegal immigration than fencing and patrolling  
all of our northern and southern borders.

Of course, companies and individuals that employ undocumented  
workers, especially those who make and build fences, might see this  
differently.

David J. Rosen
DJRosen at theworld.com

On Oct 3, 2007, at 4:57 PM, Debbie Yoho wrote:

>
> In a genuine effort to further meaningful discussion about this  
> topic, I'm going to switch sides for a minute, not just to  play  
> the "devil's advocate" but because I consider myself a pragmatic  
> moderate.  To claim THAT I have to keep looking for answers.
>
> Let us focus for a moment on the issue of securing the borders.   I  
> think many can agree it is reasonable and prudent for the US to  
> police our borders, and that clearly we don't do this well if  
> millions are able to come across undetected.  I think we can also  
> agree that the most serious problem is to the south. I think we can  
> agree that procedures and processes to secure the borders should be  
> the same, however, both north and south, and that whatever we do  
> must be humane.  We aren't going to set up thosands of miles of  
> land mines to keep people out.  So what can be done to secure the  
> borders?
>
>  When I hear about this from the political right the focus is  
> always on catching people and punishing them. I am willing to  
> believe that not everyone who wants to  focus on "catch and punish"  
> is motivated by racism.  But I keep thinking about the feasibility  
> of such an approach.  It seems to me the problem is a lot like  
> speed limits.  Many would agree on the necessity and wisdom of  
> speed limits, but almost everyone I know, including myself,  
> routinely breaks these laws.  From time to time the highway patrol  
> concentrates on catching speeders, but the problem doesn't get any  
> better, and the taxpayer isn't willing to fund a partolman  
> stationed at every exit on the interstates.   Yet the consequences  
> of speeding are well-known to be dire.
>
> I think no law can be enforced in a democracy without the  
> cooperation of those who are being regulated,  Kearney would say  
> that doesn't mean, however, that the law is bad, or should be  
> ignored, and he is right. A huge segment of our population is not  
> cooperating with the immigration laws, for whatever reasons.  But  
> if we focus on solving the problem of illegal border crossings, it  
> seems to me that hiring thousands more immigration police, or  
> building a Great Wall of the United States,  or stringing mile  
> after mile of electrified fencing can't be the answer. How can we  
> possibly "secure" all those miles and miles and miles? Illegal  
> immigrants have already demonstrated they will do whatever it  
> takes, risking life and limb, to get into the US.  Such measures  
> might cut down on the problem, but I doubt anyone can reliably  
> predict whether the results would be worth the effort.  I daresay  
> if they can't get across over land they will build a raft, as has  
> been done, and sail for the nearest coastline.
>
> Does anybody have any other ideas? Someone suggested just make it  
> easier and cheaper to come in legally.  What would be the problem  
> with that?
>
> Deborah W. Yoho
> director, Turning Pages
> (formerly the Greater Columbia Literacy Council)
> a community service of Volunteers of America Carolinas
> 803-765-255S
> PO Box 1447 Columbia, SC 29202
> yohogclc at earthlink.net
>
>
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David Rosen
DJRosen at theworld.com

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