[AAACE-NLA] Language and labels and immigration

Mon Oct 1 21:34:42 EDT 2007

 Yes, I mean just illegal. The economic reports that I've seen claim the illegal immigration has an overall positive impact on the economy. 

Andres

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrea Wilder <andreawilder at comcast.net>
To: National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE <aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org>
Sent: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 5:58 pm
Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] Language and labels and immigration

Andres-- 

Do you mean just illegal, or are you putting in the cost/ benefits of 
legal immigrants also? 

Andrea 

On Oct 1, 2007, at 4:06 PM, andresmuro at aol.com wrote: 

> Kerney wrote: 

>> Paying for their transportation back home would easily be offset by 
>> the savings realized by no longer paying for their education, health 
>> care, language translation services, etc…. 

> Do you have any citations that support this claim? All the literature 
> that I have looked indicates that the economic benefits of illegal 
> immigration far outweigh the costs. 

> 

>  Andres 

> 

> 

>  -----Original Message----- 

>  From: Kearney Lykins <kearney_lykins at yahoo.com> 

>  To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org 

>  Sent: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 11:09 am 

>  Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] Language and labels and immigration 

> 

> Debbie, 

>   

> I copied your last post here in bold, and then added my comments and 
> answers to your questions. 

>   

> Sincerely, 

>   

>   Kearney 

> 

> You and I agree (miracle of mircles) that  the challenge in 
> "negotiating the tensions" is where the rubber meets the road.  I 
> believe, however, that even if a "loaded mesage" is accurate, it is 
> better to "unload" it and in the process it can become more 
> convincing.   

> 

>  This exchange has been instructive.  Let's do some more of it.  I'm 
> going to do my best to avoid loaded language as I continue: 

> 

>  Today, I came across the following, published in the Nov. 05 issue of 
> Legal  Basics,  a local newsletter published by the SC Bar. 

> 

>  "Many undocumented workers receive their wages through regular 
> payroll checks from which FICA is withheld thus federal taxes and 
> state taxes are withheld.  The Social Security Administration reports 
> that $7 billion is paid to a 'suspense file' when social security 
> numbers don't matchup...many undocumented workers file their federal 
> and state taxes with the IRS and their state Department of Revenue 
> every year...according to the IRS, in 2001 530,000 Forms 1040 were 
> filed by taxpayers using the ITIN only issued to taxpayers who do not 
> qualify for a Social Security card." 

> 

> Kearney, you state that the federal government doesn't enforce the 
> immigration laws on the books now.  At first glance, this is 
> true.  But the part of the federal government charged with enforcing 
> immigration law does deport illegals (enforcing the law) when they 
> know about them.  I am referring to the federal government’s failure 
> to make the borders sufficiently secure. The border is largely porous. 
> Where the holes have been plugged, illegal crossings have diminished. 

> It is other parts of the federal government (IRS, Social Security, 
> etc.) who do not enforce the immigration laws because they are not 
> charged to do so.  Now here we have a list of 530,000 people who are 
> employed and paying taxes, and presummably have addresses from which 
> to mail a tax form--yet are undocumented--oh, all right, "illegal".  I 
> assume you expect the IRS, in this case, to give that list to the INS 
> so all these people can be deported.  For the betterment of our 
> health, safety, and sovereignty, I think these departments of the 
> federal government should communicate and cooperate with each other. 
> If that means more illegal immigrants get deported, I am fine with 
> that.  What I am not fine with is the current system which rewards 
> immigration law breakers (employees and employers) and cheapens 
> citizenship. 

> Can we at least agree that such an undertaking would be impossible to 
> execute?  If your standard for the execution of the undertaking is 
> perfection, then yes, it would be impossible, just like the 
> enforcement of every law is. But if the standard is great improvement 
> in the way the law is currently enforced, then no, I do not agree that 
> the task is impossible. 

> At the very least, how would you pay to transport a half million 
> people?  Paying for their transportation back home would easily be 
> offset by the savings realized by no longer paying for their 
> education, health care, language translation services, etc….This is 
> especially true when they are caught close to the border.  But the 
> real issue is prevention. We have no excuse for allowing the problem 
> to get this huge. Laws that are not enforced encourage more 
> violations.  Laws that are enforced discourage further violations.  
> Surely we can think of many examples in many realms of social 
> interaction. 

> Suppose each illegal is expected to pay their own way out of 
> here.  What if they don't or can't?  Where would you lock up 530,000 
> people?  Even if deportation were possible, can we agree that the 
> employers of 530,000 people would be left without a labor force and 
> this would affect many,many others who ARE legal citizens? That would 
> depend of course on the distribution of these 530,000 among their 
> respective employers. If they work for 530,000 employers the effect is 
> negligible. But regardless of their distribution the economic effects 
> are temporary. In a free market, needs get met, and that includes 
> labor needs. On the other hand, surely you realize the good effects as 
> well. Imagine the reduced burdens we would experience regarding ESOL 
> waiting lists, emergency room waiting times, state food stamp budgets, 
> public school student-to-teacher ratios, strains on education budgets 
> and counseling services, uninsured drivers, cases of infectious 
> tuberculosis, etc…. 

> 

> Here is another case, a true story.   We have a German adult learner 
> who was married to a US career military man, a citizen, for 25 years. 
> All her children, grown now with children of their own, were born here 
> and live here.   The couple divorced.  Her legal status is now in 
> question, because the legality of her marriage has somehow been 
> questionned (I think the military man was married before and the 
> dissolution of the first marriage is unclear.)  This came up when she 
> applied for veterans' benefits as a military widow. She is presently 
> "undocumented".  (She is not yet "illegal" because her case has not 
> yet been adjudicated.) She cannot work, and her children are 
> supporting her.    She is facing deportation to Germany, where she 
> knows no one.   

> 

> Kearney, do you see this woman as a lawbreaker who needs to be 
> immediately thrown out of the country? No. Unless she knowingly 
> married a man who she knew to be still married to another woman, to my 
> knowledge I wouldn’t think she has broken any law and thus would not 
> subject to deportation. If this is not the case, then her defense is 
> much weaker. 

> The laws themselves are the source of our struggles, since in this 
> case there is no differentiation between her and someone who sneaked 
> over the Rio Grande last night. I don’t know this to be fact. I am not 
> questioning your character here, just your immigration law expertise 
> (and mine).  

> In my humble opinion, that is why we need comprehensive immigration 
> reform, not just enforcement of the current laws.  This is also why 
> "securing our borders", (although I agree we need to do a better job 
> of this)  isn't the whole answer. Debbie, I am not aware of a raging 
> national debate over what to do about the throngs of “accidental 
> German bigamists.” The estimated 12 million illegals who currently 
> reside here do not include such categories and are not the source of 
> our strife or the impetus for the national debate. 

>   

> My philosophy on the immigration issue is guided by: 

>   

> 1. Respect for the rule of law 

> 2. Protecting the privileges of US citizenship 

> 3. Maintaining American sovereignty 

>   

> 

> Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect.  Join Yahoo!'s user 
> panel and lay it on us. 

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