[AAACE-NLA] language and labels
Jo Ann Bamdas
jbamdas at yahoo.com
Wed Sep 26 13:22:55 EDT 2007
Hello Andrea,
I've been a lurker on this listserve for a little while and have been enjoying the discussions, but because I am a graduate student, I've been reticent to join in. However, I just want to say that your response here reminds me of why I like and recommend Kettering Foundation's "National Issues Forums" so much. ( http://www.nifi.org/ ). With a moderator/or co-moderators "facilitating" the issue with a programmed discussion, and the concept of "deliberative democracy," these issues get addressed in a "town hall" type meeting where everyone can have their say. I recommend the training highly and that more of these be instituted in libraries, classrooms (I've done several of them in and since my undergrad days), etc.
Hope you don't mind a novice putting in her two cents' worth.
Jo Ann Bamdas
Doctoral Candidate
Educational Leadership, Adult & Community Education
Florida Atlantic University
Boca Raton Florida
Andrea Wilder <andreawilder at comcast.net> wrote:
This discussion is very helpful to me, and a great learning exercise.
The big problem I see in a face to face discussion on heated issues
like this one is repeated interruptions where no one gets a chance to
say what they mean nor to be listened to by others in the
conversation.
Andrea
On Sep 25, 2007, at 5:12 PM, Debbie Yoho wrote:
> You and I agree (miracle of mircles) that the challenge in
> "negotiating the tensions" is where the rubber meets the road. I
> believe, however, that even if a "loaded mesage" is accurate, it is
> better to "unload" it and in the process it can become more
> convincing.
>
> This exchange has been instructive. Let's do some more of it. I'm
> going to do my best to avoid loaded language as I continue:
>
> Today, I came across the following, published in the Nov. 05 issue of
> Legal Basics, a local newsletter published by the SC Bar.
>
> "Many undocumented workers receive their wages through regular payroll
> checks from which FICA is withheld thus federal taxes and state taxes
> are withheld. The Social Security Administration reports that $7
> billion is paid to a 'suspense file' when social security numbers
> don't matchup...many undocumented workers file their federal and state
> taxes with the IRS and their state Department of Revenue every
> year...according to the IRS, in 2001 530,000 Forms 1040 were filed by
> taxpayers using the ITIN only issued to taxpayers who do not qualify
> for a Social Security card."
>
> Kearney, you state that the federal government doesn't enforce the
> immigration laws on the books now. At first glance, this is true.
> But the part of the federal government charged with enforcing
> immigration law does deport illegals (enforcing the law) when they
> know about them. It is other parts of the federal government (IRS,
> Social Security, etc.) who do not enforce the immigration laws because
> they are not charged to do so. Now here we have a list of 530,000
> people who are employed and paying taxes, and presummably have
> addresses from which to mail a tax form--yet are undocumented--oh, all
> right, "illegal". I assume you expect the IRS, in this case, to give
> that list to the INS so all these people can be deported. Can we at
> least agree that such an undertaking would be impossible to execute?
> At the very least, how would you pay to transport a half million
> people? Suppose each illegal is expected to pay their own way out of
> here. What if they don't or can't? Where would you lock up 530,000
> people? Even if deportation were possible, can we agree that the
> employers of 530,000 people would be left without a labor force and
> this would affect many,many others who ARE legal citizens?
>
> Here is another case, a true story. We have a German adult learner
> who was married to a US career military man, a citizen, for 25 years.
> All her children, grown now with children of their own, were born here
> and live here. The couple divorced. Her legal status is now in
> question, because the legality of her marriage has somehow been
> questionned (I think the military man was married before and the
> dissolution of the first marriage is unclear.) This came up when she
> applied for veterans' benefits as a military widow. She is presently
> "undocumented". (She is not yet "illegal" because her case has not
> yet been adjudicated.) She cannot work, and her children are
> supporting her. She is facing deportation to Germany, where she
> knows no one.
>
> Kearney, do you see this woman as a lawbreaker who needs to be
> immediately thrown out of the country?
>
> The laws themselves are the source of our struggles, since in this
> case there is no differentiation between her and someone who sneaked
> over the Rio Grande last night. In my humble opinion, that is why
> we need comprehensive immigration reform, not just enforcement of the
> current laws. This is also why "securing our borders", (although I
> agree we need to do a better job of this) isn't the whole answer.
>
> Deborah W. Yoho
> director, Turning Pages
> (formerly the Greater Columbia Literacy Council)
> a community service of Volunteers of America Carolinas
> 803-765-255S
> PO Box 1447 Columbia, SC 29202
> yohogclc at earthlink.net
>
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Kearney Lykins
>> To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
>> Sent: 9/25/2007 9:31:03 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] language and labels
>>
>>
>> Deborah,
>>
>> Thanks for publicly acknowledging my point. You have in fact
>> motivated me to try to use less loaded language myself. Of course,
>> the trick in explaining (or persuading or motivating) comes in
>> negotiating the tensions between messages that are "accurate" and
>> ones that are "loaded." Sometimes the loaded message is the most
>> accurate; sometimes it's not.
>>
>> Kearney
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: "aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org"
>>
>> To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
>> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 12:21:21 PM
>> Subject: AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 52, Issue 27
>>
>> Send AAACE-NLA mailing list submissions to
>> aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> aaace-nla-owner at lists.literacytent.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of AAACE-NLA digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1.. language and labels (Debbie Yoho)
>> 2. Far reaching consequences of Aiken County Ordinance.
>> (Debbie Yoho)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 11:45:47 -0400
>> From: "Debbie Yoho"
>> Subject: [AAACE-NLA] language and labels
>> To: "aaace-nla"
>> Message-ID: <380-220079124154547734 at earthlink.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>>
>> Kearney's point about the term "anti-immigrant" has me
>> thinking. Perhaps
>> we can all agree that here the struggle to dialog is rooted in
>> vocabulary,
>> as he pointed out.
>> Truly polarization of opinions to safe "corners" is aggravated by
>> simple
>> language.
>>
>> I wonder what would happen if somehow everyone strived to avoid
>> "loaded"
>> words? Would we then discuss immigration issues with less heat and
>> more
>> light? Or would it only be a veneer that obfuscates true meaning?
>>
>> Unfortunate, it seems like almost every term or label these days is
>> loaded
>> to the gills. This morning I have been reveiwing a guide on English
>> usage
>> that I am editing to include in our tutor training manual. I came
>> across
>> the following (keep in mind the author's purpose was to encourage
>> precision
>> in writing):
>>
>> "CONSERVATIVE Strictly speaking, conservative-- a word taken into
>> general
>> use from politics--means opposed to change. Hence, a conservative
>> estimate
>> is not necessarily a low one, but one that will probably not have to
>> be
>> changed. Conservative should not be used loosely for moderate, safe,
>> low,
>> etc. Example: A safe (NOT conservative) estimate is $5.00."
>>
>> I used to think a political conservative was someone in favor of the
>> status
>> quo, as opposed to reform. Yet certainly that cannot be applied to
>> many
>> who call themselves conservative today.
>>
>> Deborah W. Yoho
>> director, Turning Pages
>> (formerly the Greater Columbia Literacy Council)
>> a community service of Volunteers of America Carolinas
>> 803-765-255S
>> PO Box 1447 Columbia, SC 29202
>> yohogclc at earthlink.net
>>
>>
>> > [Original Message]
>> > From: Andrea Wilder
>> > To: National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE
>>
>> > Date: 9/24/2007 7:42:41 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] FW: Re: Local Anti-Immigrant Laws
>> >
>> > Well, hmmm I guess that was rather a lot to lay on David, sorry,
>> David.
>> > And Andres, you are definitely not chopped liver.
>> >
>> > Discussion around this topic gets heated, and instead of taking
>> others'
>> > positions into account and figuring out if we can get any
>> consensus--or
>> > agreement on the dimensions of the problem, for example the dairy
>> farm
>> > in Vermont, the guy who owns house and pays taxes in Boston--we
>> back
>> > into our respective corners, mostly, and...get nowhere.
>> >
>> > Andrea
>> >
>> > On Sep 22, 2007, at 11:36 PM, andresmuro at aol.com wrote:
>> >
>> > > What do you think about the rest of us? Unbalanced,
>> Uncompacionate?
>> > >
>> > > Andres
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: Andrea Wilder
>> > > To: National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE
>> > >
>> > > Sent: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 7:35 pm
>> > > Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] FW: Re: Local Anti-Immigrant Laws
>> > >
>> > > David,
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > If you were the ones making the rules, what wold they be? I
>> think of
>> > >
>> > > you as both balanced and compassionate.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Andrea
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Sep 22, 2007, at 7:30 AM, David Rosen wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > Andrea and others,
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > > Immigration status often is not as simple as illegal vs. legal.
>> Take,
>> > >
>> > > > for example, Liberians who are in the U.S. legally under
>> Temporary
>> > >
>> > > > Protective Status (TPS). As victims of a long, debilitating
>> civil
>> > >
>> > > > war, many Liberian refugees were granted temporary legal status
>> in
>> > >
>> > > > the U.S. Most have jobs, are settled here, and send money back
>> to
>> > >
>> > > > Liberia to help those at home who cannot find jobs. As a result
>> of
>> > >
>> > > > the war, the country's infrastructure -- electricity, water,
>> > >
>> > > > sanitation, mail, health care, schools -- was destroyed -- and
>> > >
>> > > > unemployment still runs about 80%.
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > > Now that the war is over in Liberia, the Administration wants
>> to end
>> > >
>> > > > TPS for Liberians in the U.S.. This would mean returning
>> people who
>> > >
>> > > > work and pay taxes here, who often do jobs no one else will do,
>> and
>> > >
>> > > > who send money home to help out their families in Liberia, to
>> > >
>> > > > unemployment and poverty there. Of course, if they stayed in
>> the
>> > >
>> > > > U.S. they would have lost their status and would be
>> "illegal". Each
>> > >
>> > > > year Liberians and their families under TPS go through this,
>> > >
>> > > > wondering if this is the year they will lose their status.
>> Today they
>> > >
>> > > > are legal, hard-working, law-abiding citizens helping their
>> families
>> > >
>> > > > here and at home. Tomorrow they may be deported to poverty and
>> > >
>> > > > unemployment. In the meantime they live in uncertainty.
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > > David J. Rosen
>> > >
>> > > > DJRosen at theworld.com
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > > On Sep 21, 2007, at 11:08 PM, Andrea Wilder wrote:
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > >> I am so confused about this issue I don't know what to think.
>> > >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> > > >> There was a story this week in the boston Globe about a guy
>> > >
>> > > >> (illegal) form Colombia who had bought a house in the Boston
>> area,
>> > >
>> > > >> raised 2 children ,sent them to school (and to college?) paid
>> his
>> > >
>> > > >> taxes, his bills,and may buy another house by selling some
>> property
>> > >
>> > > >> back home....
>> > >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> > > >> Didn't someone say this was an excellent form ( and cheap) of
>> > >
>> > > >> foreign aid?
>> > >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> > > >> Andrea
>> > >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> > > >> On Sep 21, 2007, at 3:50 PM, Debbie Yoho wrote:
>> > >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> > > >>> To: aaace-nla
>> > >
>> > > >>>> Sent: 9/20/2007 6:53:45 PM
>> > >
>> > > >>>> Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] Local Anti-Immigrant Laws
>> > >
>> > > >>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>> I am grateful for Kearney's rebuttal of my chacterization of
>> the
>> > >
>> > > >>>> Aiken SC law as "anti-immigrant" because I don't often have
>> the
>> > >
>> > > >>>> chance to dialog meaningfully with someone representing the
>> > >
>> > > >>>> right. I mean this sincerely, and I offer the following in
>> an
>> > >
>> > > >>>> honest effort to gain further understanding of a complex
>> issue.
>> > >
>> > > >>>> However, the purpose of this list is not to debate the pros
>> and
>> > >
>> > > >>>> cons of the immigration issue, but to encourage and
>> facilitate
>> > >
>> > > >>>> advocacy for AELS programs. I will therefore try to frame
>> this
>> > >
>> > > >>>> response from that perspective. I shall leave it to our
>> > >
>> > > >>>> moderator to judge if we are getting away from the list's
>> > >
>> > > >>>> purpose. So here goes:
>> > >
>> > > >>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>> Kearney, I take your point that one can be a full-scale
>> supporter
>> > >
>> > > >>>> of legal immigration and at the same time support a law such
>> as
>> > >
>> > > >>>> the Aiken example. I hope you would agree that I can also be
>> > >
>> > > >>>> opposed to this law and at the same time support reasonable
>> > >
>> > > >>>> efforts to secure our borders. I believe there is much
>> common
>> > >
>> > > >>>> ground here where we might meet, and I wish the two "sides"
>> of
>> > >
>> > > >>>> this issue would attempt to find that common ground. If you
>> feel
>> > >
>> > > >>>> personally insulted to be characterized as "anti-
>> > >
>> > > >>>> immigrant" (assuming you support the Aiken law), I
>> apologize, and
>> > >
>> > > >>>> I agree that irritating people is counter-productive. I
>> doubt
>> > >
>> > > >>>> that you are either "simplistic" or "xenophobic" and would
>> ask
>> > >
>> > > >>>> that you not put words in my mouth--I am a member of the
>> left but
>> > >
>> > > >>>> I would not "love to paint" you or anyone else this way. So
>> we
>> > >
>> > > >>>> are both irritated, I think. I'd call the score even.
>> > >
>> > > >>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>> As we all know, the real heart of this issue is what to do
>> about
>> > >
>> > > >>>> the 12 million illegal immigrants who are among us. Andres
>> Muro
>> > >
>> > > >>>> offered testimony here about the suffering that occurs when
>> laws
>> > >
>> > > >>>> like the Aiken measure are enforced, and I believe
>> him. Some of
>> > >
>> > > >>>> this suffering happens to adult learners I work with. As
>> their
>> > >
>> > > >>>> teacher, I am unconcerned about their legal status, but very
>> > >
>> > > >>>> concerned when they suffer because this affects their
>> learning.
>> > >
>> > > >>>> Perhaps you feel that I shouldn't be teaching them to begin
>> with,
>> > >
>> > > >>>> and perhaps this is where we cannot agree. I feel it is
>> morally
>> > >
>> > > >>>> wrong for a teacher to reject an opportunity to teach
>> someone, in
>> > >
>> > > >>>> the same way that it is immoral for a doctor to refuse to
>> treat a
>> > >
>> > > >>>> sick person. This is why I characterize the Aiken law as
>> "anti-
>> > >
>> > > >>>> immigrant". Perhaps a better term would be "anti-human." or
>> more
>> > >
>> > > >>>> grammatically "inhumane". (The law is certainly not "a
>> rational
>> > >
>> > > >>>> reaction" as the enforcement of it raises as many problems
>> as it
>> > >
>> > > >>>> attempts to solve.).
>> > >
>> > > >>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>> As a teacher, I must advocate for the learners I teach,
>> > >
>> > > >>>> especially for those who cannot or will not speak for
>> > >
>> > > >>>> themselves. And so I have asked Andres for permission to
>> use his
>> > >
>> > > >>>> experience in an advocacy letter to my newspaper.
>> > >
>> > > >>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>> Finally, Andres has also offered a quote from a message he
>> > >
>> > > >>>> received as a result of his previous post. I leave it to
>> you to
>> > >
>> > > >>>> judge the vocabulary and emotion this message represents. To
>> me
>> > >
>> > > >>>> it is clearly "anti-immigrant" because hatred for
>> both Andres
>> > >
>> > > >>>> and illegal immigrants obviously comes through.
>> > >
>> > > >>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>> Deborah W. Yoho
>> > >
>> > > >>>> director, Turning Pages
>> > >
>> > > >>>> (formerly the Greater Columbia Literacy Council)
>> > >
>> > > >>>> a community service of Volunteers of America Carolinas
>> > >
>> > > >>>> 803-765-255S
>> > >
>> > > >>>> PO Box 1447 Columbia, SC 29202
>> > >
>> > > >>>> yohogclc at earthlink.net
>> > >
>> > > >>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> From: Kearney Lykins
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> Sent: 9/20/2007 1:26:33 PM
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] Local Anti-Immigrant Laws
>> > >
>> > > >>>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> The spirit of the Aiken County, South Carolina law that
>> Debbie
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> Yoho describes is not, as she asserts, "anti-immigrant." It
>> is,
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> however, "anti-illegal immigrant." This misrepresentation
>> is
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> another example of rhetorical line-drawing between imaginary
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> sides: pro-immigrant and anti-immigrant. However, as much
>> as the
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> left would love to frame the argument this way, because it
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> paints its opposition as simplistic, xenophobic haters, one
>> of
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> these two sides does not in fact exist (to a significant
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> degree), and hence there is no such battle.
>> > >
>> > > >>>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> As we all know the real debate nationally and locally
>> focuses
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> not on immigration, but on a particular type of it - the
>> out of
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> control illegal sort. The people of Aiken County are
>> reacting
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> to the inability or the reluctance of the federal
>> government to
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> enforce existing immigration law. The effects are felt
>> locally.
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> And the reactions are rational.
>> > >
>> > > >>>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> The truly bad news is that the federal government has thus
>> far
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> failed to honor its commitment to control immigration.
>> > >
>> > > >>>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> / Kearney Lykins
>> > >
>> > > >>>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> ----- Original Message ----
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> From: "aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org" >> > >
>> > > >>>>> request at lists.literacytent.org>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:48:10 AM
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> Subject: AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 52, Issue 16
>> > >
>> > > >>>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> Send AAACE-NLA mailing list submissions to
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
>> > >
>> > > >>>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org
>> > >
>> > > >>>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> aaace-nla-owner at lists.literacytent.org
>> > >
>> > > >>>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
>> > > specific
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> than "Re: Contents of AAACE-NLA digest..."
>> > >
>> > > >>>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> Message: 2
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:37:43 -0400
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> From: "Debbie Yoho"
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Local Anti-Immigrant Laws
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> To: "aaace-nla"
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> Message-ID: <3849-220079319193743765 at earthlink.net>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> > >
>> > > >>>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> Dear Friends: By way of keeping our list informed, see
>> below.
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> Another example of the craziness that is taking hold
>> regarding
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> immigration, this time, I am sorry to say, from SC. It will
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> interesting to see if this local ordinance is adjudicated.
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> Best, Debbie Yoho
>> > >
>> > > >>>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> Deborah W. Yoho
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> director, Turning Pages
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> (formerly the Greater Columbia Literacy Council)
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> a community service of Volunteers of America Carolinas
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> 803-765-255S
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> PO Box 1447 Columbia, SC 29202
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> yohogclc at earthlink.net
>> > >
>> > > >>>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> From: Tammy Besherse
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> To: Hispanic Leadership Council;NLPOA;SCLN;Voto Hispano
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> Sent: 9/19/2007 8:54:19 AM
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> Subject: [HISPANIC_LEADERSHIP] Aiken County Council
>> > >
>> > > >>>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> Hey everyone,
>> > >
>> > > >>>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> I have some bad news. Aiken County passed an anti-immigrant
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> ordinance last night. This was despite our efforts, and the
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> work of MALDEF, the Farm Bureau, and the Chamber of
>> Commerce, to
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> name a few. If you hear of low income people being
>> affected
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> by this ordinance, please let me know. We have discussed
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> litigation with MALDEF. It might be an avenue we pursue,
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> depending on plaintiffs, and how they are being affected.
>> Feel
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> free to call me if you have questions. Thanks.
>> > >
>> > > >>>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> Summary of Ordinance:
>> > >
>> > > >>>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> 1. Vendors hiring undocumented workers will lose their
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> licenses. Note the ordinance does not have due process
>> rights
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> for vendors, nor tell them how to determine if someone is
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> authorized to work in the country.
>> > >
>> > > >>>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> 2. Police will have to check everyone's legal status they
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> arrest. Note, again, no information was put in place
>> advising
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> the police how to do this. The reality is only the feds
>> can do
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> this, unless local police are properly trained.
>> > >
>> > > >>>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> 3. English only laws unless for "civil rights" and
>> "emergencies".
>> > >
>> > > >>>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> 4. Anyone trying to receive "benefits" from agencies that
>> get
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> "discretionary funding" from Aiken County must determine
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> someone's legal status. Again, no rules set in place for
>> how to
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> determine the legal status. Also, we can not locate
>> anywhere
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> who gets "discretionary funding".
>> > >
>> > > >>>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> We believe this ordinance is going to be enforced too
>> broadly,
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> cause racial profiling, and other constitutional law
>> violations.
>> > >
>> > > >>>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> V: (803) 779-1113 x103
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> _
>> > >
>> > > >>>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>>
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on
>> Yahoo!
>> > >
>> > > >>>>> Travel._______________________________________________
>> > >
>> > > >>> AAACE-NLA mailing list: AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
>> > >
>> > > >>> http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
>> > >
>> > > >>> LiteracyTent: web hosting, news, community and goodies for
>> literacy
>> > >
>> > > >>> http://literacytent.org
>> > >
>> > > >> _______________________________________________
>> > >
>> > > >> AAACE-NLA mailing list: AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
>> > >
>> > > >> http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
>> > >
>> > > >> LiteracyTent: web hosting, news, community and goodies for
>> literacy
>> > >
>> > > >> http://literacytent.org
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > >
>> > > > AAACE-NLA mailing list: AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
>> > >
>> > > > http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
>> > >
>> > > > LiteracyTent: web hosting, news, community and goodies for
>> literacy
>> > >
>> > > > http://literacytent.org
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > >
>> > > AAACE-NLA mailing list: AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
>> > >
>> > > http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
>> > >
>> > > LiteracyTent: web hosting, news, community and goodies for
>> literacy
>> > >
>> > > http://literacytent.org
>> > >
>> > > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL
>> Mail!
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > AAACE-NLA mailing list: AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
>> > > http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
>> > > LiteracyTent: web hosting, news, community and goodies for
>> literacy
>> > > http://literacytent.org
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 11:56:55 -0400
>> From: "Debbie Yoho"
>> Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Far reaching consequences of Aiken County
>> Ordinance.
>> To: "aaace-nla"
>> Message-ID: <3889-220079124155655312 at earthlink.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Here's a followup on the story in Aiken, SC about the new illegal
>> immigration law. My comment on this and many issues about
>> immigration is simple; "The devil is in the details!"
>>
>> Deborah W. Yoho
>> director, Turning Pages
>> (formerly the Greater Columbia Literacy Council)
>> a community service of Volunteers of America Carolinas
>> 803-765-255S
>> PO Box 1447 Columbia, SC 29202
>> yohogclc at earthlink.net
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Tammy Besherse
>> To: Hispanic Leadership Council;NLPOA;SCLN;Voto Hispano
>> Cc: ccruz at coalitionfnsc.org; lisalopez-snyder at coalitionfnsc.org
>> Sent: 9/24/2007 8:33:30 AM
>> Subject: [HISPANIC_LEADERSHIP] Far reaching consequences of Aiken
>> County Ordinance.
>>
>>
>> Please contact me if you know of people being affected. This article
>> implies that public schools will lose money for providing education
>> to undocumented kids - as required to by federal law. (803) 779-1113
>> ext 103
>>
>>
>>
>> Aiken's anti-immigrant law carries wide reach
>> By Sandi Martin| South Carolina Bureau Chief
>> Saturday, September 22, 2007
>> 14 commentsPRINTEMAIL
>> AIKEN - Had Aiken County's new illegal immigration law been in place
>> a couple of years ago, Silver Bluff High School could have waved
>> goodbye to any extra cash from the county.
>>
>>
>>
>> Annette M. Drowlette/Staff
>> Lopez Negrete
>> Click photo for options
>> Griselda Lopez Negrete attended Silver Bluff while fighting
>> immigration officials' efforts to deport her after they learned that
>> she had been brought to the United States illegally as a small child.
>> The county law passed this week says that any agency getting
>> discretionary funds risks losing that aid if it provides assistance
>> to an unauthorized alien. However, it can provide assistance in
>> emergency situations or to protect civil liberties.
>> Silver Bluff is on a long list of agencies, clubs, civic
>> organizations, churches and fire departments that must abide by the
>> rule.
>> If the timing were different, Ms. Lopez Negrete's attendance at
>> Silver Bluff would have disqualified the school from receiving county
>> money.
>> In such situations, County Administrator Clay Killian said, council
>> members would have to decide whether an entire organization would
>> then pay for the violation, or just one group.
>> "The law doesn't discriminate or allow for exceptions," he said.
>> Passed Tuesday night, the law had been revised a number of times
>> since it was introduced several weeks ago. The final version added
>> penalties to businesses and agencies that violate it. They cannot be
>> hired by the county or receive county money for three years.
>> Businesses have to certify to the county when registering that they
>> don't hire or recruit illegal immigrants. Agencies are ordered not to
>> hire or provide assistance to them, "except to protect civil
>> liberties or provide emergency services."
>> A key word in the law says they cannot do this "knowingly."
>> During debate over the law, some council members said the county
>> should not prohibit churches or other organizations from providing
>> services such as meals.
>> One draft of the law allowed for "humanitarian assistance," but that
>> wording was removed before the final vote.
>> Council members who support the law say they are taking a stand
>> against an issue the federal government won't solve.
>> "I don't think taxpayers want their tax dollars benefiting illegal
>> immigrants," Councilwoman Kathy Rawls said this week.
>> Dozens of agencies in Aiken County - ranging from fire departments to
>> churches to clubs and civic groups - receive financial aid from the
>> county, all in varying amounts, according to a list provided by staff
>> on Friday.
>> Some receive direct funding, others accommodations tax money or
>> contingency funds.
>> There is an appeals process if a company or agency is found to be in
>> violation, but it might be difficult for the county to prove the
>> accusations.
>> Employment records often wouldn't be open to scrutiny from the
>> county, and Mr. Killian conceded that there are other records that
>> would also probably be off limits.
>> Many immigrants working illegally have false or pilfered Social
>> Security numbers, and companies might balk at handing over that
>> information.
>> "If there are things protected by privacy acts that we can't get our
>> hands on, then we can't get our hands on it," Mr. Killian said.
>> Reach Sandi Martin at (803) 648-1395, ext. 111, or
>> sandi.martin at augustachronicle.com.
>>
>> Tammy Besherse
>> Staff Attorney - SCALJC
>> P.O. Box 7187
>> Columbia, SC 29202
>> V: (803) 779-1113 x103
>> F: (803) 779-5951
>>
>> South Carolina Appleseed Legal Justice Center is dedicated to
>> advocacy for low income people in South Carolina to effect systemic
>> change by acting in and through the courts, legislature,
>> administrative agencies, community and the media, and helping others
>> do the same through education, training and co-counseling.
>> www.scjustice.org
>>
>> This electronic message, together with any attachments, contains
>> information from South Carolina Appleseed Legal Justice Center that
>> may be privileged and confidential. The information is intended to
>> be for the use of the addressee only and may contain information that
>> is legally privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure. If
>> you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
>> disclosure, dissemination, distribution or copying of this message,
>> or any attachment, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
>> message in error, please notify the original sender by return e-mail
>> and delete the message, along with any attachments, from your
>> computer.
>>
>> __._,_.___
>> Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic
>> Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Members | Calendar
>>
>> Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
>> Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch
>> format to Traditional
>> Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Visit
>> Your Group
>> Shedding Pounds
>> on Yahoo! Groups
>> Read sucess stories
>> & share your own.
>> Yahoo! 360°
>> Start Sharing
>> Your place online
>> Blog & photos
>> Yahoo! Groups
>> Going Green
>> Share your passion
>> for the planet..
>> __,_._,___
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL:
>> http://lists.literacytent.org/pipermail/aaace-nla/attachments/
>> 20070924/8136d014/attachment.html
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>> Name: not available
>> Type: image/gif
>> Size: 92 bytes
>> Desc: photos_top.gif
>> Url :
>> http://lists.literacytent.org/pipermail/aaace-nla/attachments/
>> 20070924/8136d014/attachment.gif
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> AAACE-NLA mailing list
>> AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
>> http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
>>
>>
>> End of AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 52, Issue 27
>> *****************************************
>>
>>
>> Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo!
>> Travel._______________________________________________
> AAACE-NLA mailing list: AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
> http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
> LiteracyTent: web hosting, news, community and goodies for literacy
> http://literacytent.org
_______________________________________________
AAACE-NLA mailing list: AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
LiteracyTent: web hosting, news, community and goodies for literacy
http://literacytent.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.literacytent.org/pipermail/aaace-nla/attachments/20070926/a2d6d425/attachment-0001.html
More information about the AAACE-NLA
mailing list