[AAACE-NLA] immigration and adult ed

Tue May 15 17:29:20 EDT 2007

Yes, the Department of Education in Arizona has determined that.
According to the AZ Attorney General, Arizona's statute does not violate
federal law. See the links on the front page of www.az-aall.org
<http://www.az-aall.org/> 

Maureen Hoyt
Basic Education Manager
ACYR 
602-252-6721ext 223
fax: 602-252-2952
www.azcallateen.k12.az.us
www.az-aall.org

-----Original Message-----
From: aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org
[mailto:aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org] On Behalf Of
andresmuro at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 6:09 AM
To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] immigration and adult ed

While it is in effect, I don't think that the state hasn't determined
how people will go about veryfying status. It is also a violation of
federal law and soon someone is going to challenge it in the court. We
have to see what happens. 

BTW, who is responsible for asking people to prove immigration status in
AZ ABE programs now? Have they been trained by immigration officials on
how to do this? 

Andres

Please take a look at my artwork: www.geocities.com/andresmuro/art.html

-----Original Message-----
From: maureenh at azcallateen.k12.az.us
To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
Sent: Mon, 14 May 2007 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] immigration and adult ed
The whole issue of federally funded ABE/ELAA programs requiring
verification of legal status is now in effect in Arizona. To find out
about this, check www.az-aall.org <http://www.az-aall.org/>  see-
proposition 300. I posted this last week, and I'm surprised no one has
commented!!

Maureen Hoyt
Basic Education Manager
ACYR 
602-252-6721ext 223
fax: 602-252-2952
www.azcallateen.k12.az.us
www.az-aall.org

-----Original Message-----
From: aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org
<javascript:parent.ComposeTo(>
[mailto:aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org
<javascript:parent.ComposeTo(> ] On Behalf Of andresmuro at aol.com
<javascript:parent.ComposeTo(> 
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 8:56 AM
To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org <javascript:parent.ComposeTo(> 
Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] immigration and adult ed

Kearny:

Actually it is certainly not the same thing. To employ someone, you have
to follow certain rules. They include asking for ID and SS#, reporting
your hiring to the IRS, paying minmum wage, etc, etc. Moreover,
knowingly employing and undocumented person is an offence punishable by
fines, etc, etc.

Providing instruction to undocumented students is not illegal activity.
In fact, by law, it is illegal to deny k-12 education to people
documented or undocumented according to Plyer vs DOE 1982 ruling.  So,
public K-12 entities are not allowed to ask for immigration status. 

While it is debatable if adults fall within Plyer vs DOE, the funding
that you get dictates what you can do. Who you can serve is dictated by
the funding source which tells you who you may or may not serve. As
educators, we are not allowed to engage in policing for immigration
status. That is the role of the ICE. Our role is to provide instruction
to those that come into our classes. If we are involved in outreach and
recruitment, we are suppossed to recruit those that the funding is
intended to serve. If you decide that you will not serve undocumented
and the funding doesn't tell you so, you are breaking the law.

So, by law, hiring an undocumented person is illegal. Providing
instruction to an undocumented person is not illegal. 

Andres

Please take a look at my artwork: www.geocities.com/andresmuro/art.html

-----Original Message-----
From: kearney_lykins at yahoo.com <javascript:parent.ComposeTo(> 
To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org <javascript:parent.ComposeTo(> 
Sent: Mon, 14 May 2007 5:50 AM
Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] immigration and adult ed
John,

How are educators who would provide free or nearly free ESOL services to
known illegal aliens in a substantially different ethical position than
the employers who knowingly hire the same?

I don't know that you are as complicit as the coyote, but yes, you and
anyone else who who turns a blind eye to illegal activity is certainly
contributing to creating an illegal-friendly environment. I don't find
it at all disingenuous or conflicting to be an adult ESOL educator and a
patriot. In fact, love of my country and its culture is one of the
biggest motivators for me to teach ESOL to immigrants. But I am not
going to help a single illegal immigrant if I can help it. I have
suspected several of my previous students were here illegally. Even
though I know such things are easily faked, I asked several to show me
their SSAN cards. One student, who had a very good attendance record,
and with whom I had developed great rapport, immediately stopped coming
to class. 

Loving one's country doesn't make one a fascist or a nativist. Wanting
to enforce immigration laws that recognize our border, that protect our
culture and national security, and that allow for the continued
viability of our health services, education programs, social services,
state budgets, etc. doesn't equate to hating brown people. 

Kearney Lykins

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Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 12:21:20 AM
Subject: AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 48, Issue 42
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Today's Topics:

   1.  immigration and adult education (Holst, John D.)
   2. Re:  A primer on immigration (andresmuro at aol.com)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 13:44:58 -0500
From: "Holst, John D." <JDHOLST at stthomas.edu>
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] immigration and adult education
To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
Message-ID:
    <2EFE80177AFF964D903D1F1E0CC5E767029F1D7D at UST-EXCH8.stthomas.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="iso-8859-1"

I have been following with interest the debate on immigration and have
the
following comments to add to the discussion.

Trying to claim that the national discussion on immigration should
center on
the narrow issue of the legality or illegality of crossing the border is
fruitless and leads, as this discussion has shown, to, on the one hand,
abstract appeals to dictionary definitions, etymological origins of
words,
and moral principles, and, on the other, calls for the mass detention
and
removal of large sectors of a nation's population not seen since the
days,
and with similar ideological foundations, of European fascism.

Claiming this is a narrow legal issue, is like saying the national
debate on
abortion is merely about a medical procedure.  It really leads nowhere
because it detaches the issue from its foundations in the historical,
economic and social development of the nation.

It also strikes me as disingenuous if not outright hypocritical for
adult
educators to take anti-immigration stances, and to be so sanctimoniously
outraged by 'these' people's "criminal" act of crossing borders.  I
spent
about 7 years in the ABE classroom.  During these years, most of my work
was
with "illegal" immigrants.  In fact, the entire ABE program in Chicago,
funded based on attendance, depended on the mass participation of
"illegal"
immigrants.  All of our jobs, whether we were in the ESL or the GED
classroom, depended on the "criminality" of immigration.  The ABE
classroom,
overflowing with "illegals" was my first entry into education.  Both
literally and figuratively "illegal" immigrants put food on my table.
Now
as a professor of education, I have to honestly admit that my whole
career
is founded on this original sin.  I can't help but think that from the
narrow legalistic framing of the immigration debate, my entire career is
really fraudulent and illegal.   How can I as someone who has benefited
so
much from the field of ABE, now call for the confinement and/or
deportation
of those upon which I built a whole career?  Am I not as complicit as
the
coyote, himself?  Are not our programs?

John Holst

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 15:35:06 -0400
From: andresmuro at aol.com
Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] A primer on immigration
To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
Message-ID: <8C962E3C77F3FE7-1D18-199D at WEBMAIL-MC17.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Regarding educators, the policies that they should follow are the ones
of the school, funding, etc. 
they really have no choice. Teachers are not immigration officers, so,
they shouldn't be asked to enforce immigration policy. In our program we
serve the students that come. the funding pretty much dictates who we
can serve. Our adult education ESL funding is for people who want to
learn English. Our GED funding is for people who want to get a GED. Our
migrant education funding is for people involved in agricultural work.
Our health education funds are to provide health literacy classes and so
on.

Schools should serve people that want to learn, provided that they teach
what people are asking for. It should be pretty straight forward. 

Regarding national or global immigration policy, I cannot speak of one
definite policy. The immigration issues are the result of global
economic issues of poverty, displacement, inequality, etc. Policies will
not prevent immigration issues as long as there are issues of poverty,
inequality, etc. People will talk about immigration policy for a while.
In a couple of years, after the next election, and a couple of Paris
Hilton type scandals, a few sports tournaments, etc people will have
forgotten that we have an immigration issue. We will continue to
co-exist with pretty much the same immigrants and get along fine. At
some point, a few years later, another Lou Dobbs will come along and
make immigrants the scapegoats for the all problem of the time. 

My personal policy is to treat people as people. I try not to make
distinctions about nationality, race, gender, class, sexual preference,
religion. 

Andres

________________________________

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Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo!
Games.
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