[AAACE-NLA] A primer on immigration

Sat May 12 15:35:06 EDT 2007

 Regarding educators, the policies that they should follow are the ones of the school, funding, etc. 
 they really have no choice. Teachers are not immigration officers, so, they shouldn't be asked to enforce immigration policy. In our program we serve the students that come. the funding pretty much dictates who we can serve. Our adult education ESL funding is for people who want to learn English. Our GED funding is for people who want to get a GED. Our migrant education funding is for people involved in agricultural work. Our health education funds are to provide health literacy classes and so on.

 Schools should serve people that want to learn, provided that they teach what people are asking for. It should be pretty straight forward. 

 Regarding national or global immigration policy, I cannot speak of one definite policy. The immigration issues are the result of global economic issues of poverty, displacement, inequality, etc. Policies will not prevent immigration issues as long as there are issues of poverty, inequality, etc. People will talk about immigration policy for a while. In a couple of years, after the next election, and a couple of Paris Hilton type scandals, a few sports tournaments, etc people will have forgotten that we have an immigration issue. We will continue to co-exist with pretty much the same immigrants and get along fine. At some point, a few years later, another Lou Dobbs will come along and make immigrants the scapegoats for the all problem of the time. 

 My personal policy is to treat people as people. I try not to make distinctions about nationality, race, gender, class, sexual preference, religion. 

 Andres
    Please take a look at my artwork: www.geocities.com/andresmuro/art.html   
 -----Original Message-----
 From: andreawilder at comcast.net
 To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
 Sent: Sat, 12 May 2007 8:45 AM
 Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] A primer on immigration

  So, Andres, what kind of immigration policy to you support? And what policies do you think adult level teachers and administers should follow in their schools and classes? 

 Andrea 

 On May 11, 2007, at 1:58 PM, andresmuro at aol.com wrote: 

 > I am posting this message sort of as a primer on immigration and in > response to several messages. 
 > 
 > As I said before, immigration is a natural behavior of all living > beings form the most basic unicellular organisms, to the most > advanced. Living beings are always moving to places where the quality > of life is better and where there are better economic opportunities. > People do not just immigrate to the United States. Poor Guatemalans go > to Mexico, Pakistanis go to India, Northern Africans go to Europe, > Peruvians, Bolivians and Paraguayans go to Brazil, Argentina and > Uruguay. Ecuadorans, go to Peru and Colombia, Colombians go to > Venezuela, Mexicans come to the US, Haitians go to the Dominican > Republic etc, etc. 
 > 
 > Usually, poor immigrants do jobs that others do not want to do and > live in communities w/o problems. In general, statistically, > immigrants contribute much more to the communities than they take > away, and this is the reason that immigration is not only tolerated, > but encouraged. However, poor immigrants are the easiest targets of > attacks when there is discontent and problems in a community and they > make great scapegoats. They lack political power and economic > resources so, they are easy targets for politicians to place blame > when there is discontent with economic, political decisions. 
 > 
 > This happens all over the world, and not just in the US, and it has > been happening since the olden times. It is not something new. > Biblically, we can trace it to Abraham. At the same time immigration > as a subject tends to resurface in the minds of the public every 8 to > 10 years or so. 
 > 
 > The Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas, who regularly and systematically > conducts research on the economic impact of immigration in the United > States reports that the economic impact is overwhelmingly positive and > the economy would suffer greatly w/o the contribution of illegal > immigrants. In fact, it is educated legal immigrants that cause most > of the labor displacement, and not the poor illegal immigrants. > Politicians know this and this is the reason the don't penalize the > corporations that hire undocumented labor. In fact, many of these > corporations are the biggest contributors to conservative politicians > who love to grandstand about the evils of illegal immigration. > However, they will never support penalties and raids of the > corporations who pay for their campaigns. 
 > 
 > Think tanks on immigration into the United states always find that > immigration has an overwhelmingly positive impact even though the > media demmonizes immigrants every 8 to 10 years or so. Of course, some > of you may not believe me and think that I am pulling this out of a > hat, so here is what you can do: go to your web-browser and type: > "economic impact of immigration into the United states" I am sure that > you will find lots of support from what I am saying. Now, please read > the serious studies. I cite the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas because > it is not some liberal, Mexican loving think tank, but it is a bastion > of good old US capitalism, and it is considered by experts on the > economy as a serious entity that does serious, politically unbiased > research. 
 > 
 > Some people will ask: "why doesn't the Mexican government do > something for its citizens instead of letting them come to the US and > do all the evil things that they do here?" 
 > Well, the Mexican government as well as a number of governments in > Latin America are puppets of US corporate capitalism, the world bank > and the International Monetary fund. These governments will not do > anything to oppose the system that feeds them. A Majority of Mexicans > politicians and other Latin American politicians were trained in the > the US in the University of Chicago and Harvard and are known as the > Chicago Boys,and implement economic policies that benefit large > corporations. Coincidentally the Chicago Boys also lead the world bank > and IMF. 
 > 
 > The above may sound sort of abstract, so let me illustrate how this > works: 
 > 
 > Imagine a community somewhere in Mexico. It has farmers growing corn, > raising chickens and pigs, a few cows, beans, etc. The community also > has a few small stores that supply the community with goods. Many of > the goods are procured form the local economy and others from other > communities in Mexico. As this is going on, along comes Walmart and > moves to the community or nearby. Also, Sam's and Costco and Target > come along into these communities. These multinationals can move with > ease into Mexico because of the NAFTA (a Chicago Boys idea). With > Walmart nearby, people don't need to go to the local grocery store to > procure items. Walmart is cheaper. So, the grocery store purchasing > items from the local farmers. Why is Walmart cheaper? They buy in bulk > from huge corporations such as Procter and Gambler, Swift, Peyton, > United Fruit, Sasetru, Dole, Philip Morris, etc. These corporations > receive huge subsidies from the US government, pay virtually no taxes > in the US, and employ undocumented immigrants in the US for peanuts. > They also own land throughout Latin America and the world and employ > little children and pay slave wages. So, Walmart buys for peanuts and > runs the local economy out of business. 
 > 
 > What do people do? Some go to work for Walmart. Other immigrate to > other communities in Mexico. Well guess what. The biggest employers of > displaced Mexicans are international factories along the US Mexico > border, particularly in ciudad Juarez, Chih. That is where they make > the parts for the cars that people drive in the US. Before NAFTA > garment manufacturing in the US was mostly done in El Paso, Texas, and > the garment industry was another huge employer of displaced Mexicans. > So, northern Mexico, along the US Mexico border has become > industrialized and hyperurbanized by corporations from the US and the > rest of the industrialized world and displaced workers from all over > Mexico. 
 > 
 > Hyperurbainzed, industrialized cities are overwhelmingly poor. So, > many of the Mexicans come across the river to work in the US. They > come because they are needed and welcome by the corporations that > recruit and hire them, by families that need daycare and maids, by the > construction industry, and by everyone else. People all over the US > recruit, welcome and hire undocumented workers to do all sorts of > jobs. But the worst sinners are the biggest and richest corporations > who also get government subsidies, don't pay taxes, and support the > hypocritical politicians that grandstand against immigrants. 
 > 
 > But wait, the above was all economic mumbo jumbo. How about securing > our borders from terrorists? Well, originally that is how the latest > antimmigrant rant started. People were saying that our borders where > unsafe and that middle eastern terrorists where coming in through > Mexico. Well guess what. The 11 terrorists associated with 9-11 where > all Saudi Arabians. They were very well funded by OPEC monies and they > all came with visas, passports and all their documents in order. They > didn't need to come into the US hiding, because they have the > documentation necessary to come in legally. In fact, many middle > easterners who live in the US and are discontent with US policy did > not get here illegally. They came in with legal documents. Many are > highly educated and have lots of money and they don't need to walk > through the river and cross the Mohave avoiding scorpions and rattle > snakes and die of thirst. Instead, the fly American Airlines first > class. The Irony about all this is that Saudi Arabia and other OPEC > nations are very happy that the US pretty much destroyed Iraq's > economic infrastructure. See, Iraq represented major competition to > the Saudis and they were going to sell oil cheaply to Europe, China, > etc. With the US invasion, the Iraqi oil fields are now controlled by > the US and we keep buying oil from our friends the Saudis, who, by the > way, are our allies and yet, keep their citizens in much worse > conditions that Saddam Hussein ever did. But that is a very different > discussion 
 > 
 > Andres 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > Please take a look at my artwork: www.geocities.com/andresmuro/art.html 
 > 
 > 
 > -----Original Message----- 
 > From: Michael.Salyer at dce.virginia.gov 
 > To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org 
 > Sent: Thu, 10 May 2007 7:38 AM 
 > Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] Moral choices and immigration 
 > 
 > Ms Sapp takes this opportunity to tell us that she has little regard > for the rule of law which is the cornerstone of our society. The > condition of being illegal could certainly apply to humans. Actions > can be illegal and while she chooses to wax over that issue time and > again in her diatribe it is clear that she doesn’t care about our laws > or our limited resources, instead she falls on the side those who she > supports protest in the streets and demand recognition and privileges > that by law that they do not deserve. It doesn’t matter to them that > they broke our laws by coming here, set a deplorable example for their > children, and then agreed in most cases to work for wages less than > those garnered by their legal counterparts, depriving American > citizens of jobs, taking up precious medical services, sending their > wages out of the country and the list goes on and on. None of this is > news, but the left somehow wants Americans to ignore all that. Then > there is the crime element. 
 > 
 > In just about every news report that sites crimes committed by illegal > immigrants, they no longer mention the fact that they are here > illegally or that they are illegal, choosing instead to label them > undocumented workers, thinking that somehow that makes it all OK; > marginalizing their original crime so that it doesn’t compound their > current crime. In part because they fear that the citizenry will tire > of these senseless acts that could have been prevented if only those > persons had not broken the law and entered this country illegally. Its > not about immigrant versus citizen crimes since there seems to be no > lack of immigrant on immigrant crimes, but rather NONE of these crimes > would have been committed if they were not here. The recent deaths of > 2 Virginia Beach teenagers by a drunken driver who happened to be here > illegally are a perfect example of just that. All the arguments about > a failed legal system that allowed this cretin to escape jail and > drive a second or third time after being arrested for that crime > before are meaningless, since the fact remains that these young > vibrant women would be in their homes with their parents and loved > ones if this illegal alien were in his country of origin as he should > have been. Not in jail, not in prison for drunk driving (which would > and has costs the taxpayers thousands of dollars) but in his home > country driving on their roads, drunk. The list of crazy crimes > committed by these people goes on and on. The argument that our own > citizens commit the same crimes is a red herring, of course they do, > but they are citizens subject to our laws, who understand them and > accept them, if they break them then we deal with them. Why add to > that list of criminals, offenders that we don’t have to have. 
 > 
 > I agree, slap the companies that hire these people, if they didn’t > things would cost more and our laws on immigration would change to > allow more LEGAL immigration to accommodate the need, but in the > meantime, send the lawbreakers back to their country of origin, their > children with them and if they want to come back, make some > accommodation for granting citizenship to their children when they get > their legal immigration status if they can document that the child was > born here. In my opinion it’s the only thing to do that will keep > intact our laws which we should hold as sacred. Change them if you > want, but don’t allow those that chose to break them to do so at no > penalty. It will lead to our ruination in the end. 
 > 
 > 
 > This debate will rage for years and yes the great Decider has spoken, > but the great thing about that is that we get to decide who the > Decider will be and that will change rapidly after the liberals take > office and we see just how they will treat terrorism, immigration and > education. 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > Mike Salyer 
 > 
 > From: aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org > [mailto:aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org] On Behalf Of Janice > Sapp 
 > Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 8:16 PM 
 > To: National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE 
 > Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] Moral choices and immigration 
 > 
 > Oxford English Dictionary 
 > Illegality: the quality or condition of being illegal 
 > Illegal: not legal or lawful, contrary to or forbidden by law; the > word 'illegal' was first used in 1626 
 > 
 > Although the current dictionaries define people as "illegal", the > original definition did not conceive of 
 > the idea that a human being could be illegal although a person could > be born on the wrong side of 
 > the blanket or outside of the bonds of marriage and thus be a > 'bastard'. This condition, like that of 
 > an 'illegal alien' (no, not a martian) could lead people (who might > otherwise be nice) to mistreat those 
 > who are so given such names. 
 > 
 > I am convinced that such name-calling can get out of hand and be > considered a hate crime or at the least 
 > slander. Since I'm not a lawyer, I don't know the legality of what I > just stated, however. 
 > 
 > I do know that since my ancesters were called WOPs because they came > from Italy without papers, and I was 
 > called a WOP and other names inconsistant with who I am although both > of my parents are both first generation Italian Americans, I did not > like being marginalized because of my name. And still don't. 
 > 
 > Although born in the USA, my parents traveled abroad where I learned > Italian before I spoke English. I learned English around the age of > 5. I am proud to be an American citizen. 
 > 
 > I do not care where someone else comes from, especially when he/she > are trying to escape from hunger and the effects of poverty, which > many Americans don't ever see, to make a better life. Undocumented > workers are not lazy; they do not make much money per hour. Yet they, > like many immigrants before them, they work hard and harder and make a > living, not complaining. I have taught a number all of whom have > become citizens, on the first try. 
 > 
 > Yet this administration has lied and taken their lives, their work, > and what they are working for, for granted. Instead of placing the > blame where it ought to be and punishing the employers, who pass the > benefits of low pay and no benefits on to you and me, by the way, > building ridiculous walls, self righteously prosecuting people > 'protecting' its borders, while profiting from the people's work who > pour across it. 
 > 
 > Since the Great Decider has already decided, let's wait until America > has a new leader, perhaps a new vision and let's get on with a new > plan for worthy people who are looking for new opportunities. 
 > 
 > My fathers once looked to new lands to find new opportunities for > work. What did yours do? 
 > 
 > Janice Mancinelli Sapp, MA 
 > Master Teacher, 
 > English, ESOL 
 > Bookbinder 
 > Cell: 828-279-2442 
 > joyconte at yahoo.com 
 > 
 > ----- Original Message ---- 
 > From: Kearney Lykins <kearney_lykins at yahoo.com> 
 > To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org 
 > Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2007 10:36:46 AM 
 > Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] Moral choices and immigration 
 > David, 
 > 
 > I think your example of a northward-trekking farmer more closely > resembles the actual circumstances of most illegal immigrants than > your other two examples did. 
 > 
 > You asked, "Doesn't this example also describe a choice to break the > law which is 
 > morally defensible?" 
 > 
 > I say "no" because it's not the only available choice. 
 > 
 > So he's a farmer (which by the way is a label) in a country with poor > farmland. Apparently he's always been a farmer, his father was a > farmer, farming runs in his family. Farming is how he feeds his > family. But recent drought or economic conditions or prohibitive > government policies have made that life choice very difficult. So his > moral bearings obligate him to find a better way to provide for > himself and his family. Now if he was a crack dealer living in Kansas, > where the prospects had recently become poor for selling crack, and > his father had been a crack dealer, and crack dealing runs in his > family, would he be morally justified to enter Mexico to find a better > market for his products? His children are hungry. Would Mexico be > justified in questioning his economic decisions? If he found Mexico > inhospitable to his enterprise, are there moral grounds on which his > demands to set up shop in say, Ecuador be honored? Or would we expect > him to learn a new skill, obey the law, and find another way to meet > his obligations in Kansas or elsewhere? 
 > 
 > The truth is, there is more than one moral dilemma here, and far more > available choices than your example suggests. Why is farming his only > outlet for work in his native country? The farmer lives in Central > America. Why must he travel north? What, the Venezuelan worker's > paradise isn't available? Argentina is fresh out of jobs? Surely there > must be "jobs that Colombians just won't do" that this man will. And I > find it ironic that while we converse across the Literacytent that we > would be morally comfortable with this Spanish speaker making his job > quest even more difficult by putting him in an English-speaking > country. Where's the morality in that? Isn't he saddled with enough > burdens already? 
 > 
 > But even among all his options, if he does insist on going north why > does the USA have to signal the end of the road? Why not push onward > to Canada, land of friendly multiculturalism and fantastically free > health care? And whatever happened to east and west? 
 > 
 > The American government has a moral responsibility to defend its > borders, and a moral right to do the same, for the sake of its > citizens. It also has a moral responsibility to uphold the law. What > of the millions of immigrants who do follow the law, the ones who have > waited for years to participate in the American economic dream and who > have dutifully prepared the forms, paid the fees, learned the language > and passed the citizenship exam? Allowing some people to wander across > the border willy-nilly says to the law-abiders, "screw you, suckers." > Nothing is more amoral and ultimately anarchic than a society that > capriciously enforces its laws. 
 > 
 > Kearney 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > ------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 > 
 > 
 > Today's Topics: 
 > 
 > 2. Moral choices: another example (DJRosen at TheWorld.com) 
 > 
 > 
 > Message: 2 
 > Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 18:06:07 -0400 (EDT) 
 > From: DJRosen at TheWorld.com 
 > Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Moral choices: another example 
 > To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org 
 > Message-ID: <1495.64.134.183.50.1178489167.squirrel at www.TheWorld.com> 
 > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 
 > 
 > Hello Kearney, 
 > 
 > Another example: 
 > 
 > A young farmer who lives in an area with poor farmland in very poor 
 > country in Central America decides that it is immoral to watch his > family 
 > members die of malnutrition, hunger, and pesticide poisoning. He > borrows 
 > money, leaves home, and crosses the border looking for a way to earn > money 
 > over a short period of time to send back home. He is not planning to > go 
 > to the United States, but he soon finds that he cannot stay in Mexico, 
 > that he will be arrested there or in any country except the one he was 
 > born in because he has no papers. He decides to push on northwards, > taking 
 > his chances. He does this at great personal risk, for moral reasons, > to 
 > meet basic human needs of his family. He knows that what he is doing > is 
 > not legal, but decides that the moral principle outweighs the legal > and 
 > other risks. I believe that this example is fairly common among 
 > immigrants to the United States. I also think that if the Bush 
 > administratrion prevailed on Congress, and there were a guest worker 
 > program, that he might be able to get the papers to work legally. (I > am 
 > not advocating that policy, just pointing out that what is illegal > today 
 > could be legal in the next few months or years.) 
 > 
 > Doesn't this example also describe a choice to break the law which is 
 > morally defensible? 
 > 
 > David J. Rosen 
 > djrosen at comcastt.net 
 > 
 > Kearney Lykins wrote: 
 > 
 > > David, 
 > > 
 > > The two examples you give illustrate the tough choices some people 
 > decide to make. Both are examples in which would-be-immigrants seek 
 > entry on grounds of political asylum. They are not however 
 > representative of the moral choices being made by the millions of 
 > illiterate and un-immunized people who have willfully entered the US 
 > illegally. I am not saying that were I in the shoes of your > protagonists 
 > I wouldn't attempt to do the same thing as they. But I am saying that 
 > the circumstances of the vast majority of the current 12 million or so 
 > illegal aliens are far different than your two examples. 
 > > 
 > > Kearney 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > Get your own web address. 
 > Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. 
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