[AAACE-NLA] AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 48, Issue 22

Sun May 6 10:20:37 EDT 2007

Allan,

Thank you for presenting relevant and well-articulated questions to this discussion. 

I take issue though with your resistance to "labels."  Unless you are referring to name-calling or any such juvenilia (which I have yet to encounter thus far in this discussion), I do not understand how "labels" cannot and should not coexist with reasoned discussion. This list serve has a label to distinguish it from other list serves.
Should it be scrapped?  We label ourselves literacy advocates; does such
a term not help define ourselves to others? But these examples are
benign because they help communicate a consensus of purpose. 

However, in the midst of contentious discourse I have observed that when people say, "I don't like labels" what they really mean is a particular label is inaccurate but they don't know how to disarm it, or they object to the ones that tend to make their position weaker. I can fully
appreciate why some bristle at the term "illegal
alien" but that doesn't detract from its authenticity, nor does it mean that one party should refrain from using
it. Some say that labels are poor substitutes for critical thinking. I tend to take the opposite approach; that labels are the efficient product of acquired knowledge, condensed to facilitate coherent discussion. 

Kearney

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Subject: AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 48, Issue 22

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re:  Immigrants and the Law (French, Allan)

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Message: 1
Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 14:32:20 -0700
From: "French, Allan" <afrench at sccd.ctc.edu>
Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] Immigrants and the Law
To: "National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE"
    <aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org>
Message-ID:
    <0C988598E761184F93D5E740DF3D3AA656922C at SCCDMAIL.SCCD.CTC.EDU>
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A recent poster asked us, in effect, to stop labeling each other and start a reasoned discussion.  I agree, and I think that David's questions could begin such a discussion, if only Kearney would respond without labels.  To be fair, though, tough questions would also have to be asked of Kearney's opponents.  

I have read much about justifying the breaking of laws for reasons of conscience, and I have great sympathy for that, at times.  However, would those of you taking such a stand tolerate the breaking of laws by those whose conscience dictates positions diametrically opposite your own.  For example, there are many people who consider abortion murder.  Would you allow them to break judicial restraining orders regarding protests at family planning centers as long as it was a matter of conscience?  What would be the implications for our society if we all freely broke laws that we thought were morally wrong (remembering that we don't all share the same moral perspective on issues)?

It is very easy to criticize the current administration's immigration policies and enforcement actions (I do so myself).  It is more difficult to come up with alternatives.  What immigration policy would you recommend to the next president?  Would you advocate completely open borders?  If not, what limitations would you place on immigration and how would you justify those?  How would such changes impact our society?

I don't have good answers to these questions, but I would like to see a good, reasoned, constructive and respectful discussion started.

Allan French
ESL Instructor
South Seattle Community College

-----Original Message-----
From: aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org
[mailto:aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org]On Behalf Of David
Rosen
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 6:30 PM
To: National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Immigrants and the Law

Kearney,

Since you are concerned about illegal activity, it is odd to me that  
in your postings you focus only on immigrants, not on U.S. employers  
who illegally recruit, hire, and pay employees who are not legal  
residents.  In Massachusetts, for example,  we have had examples of  
INS raids in which immigrants without documentation are rounded up,  
and quickly shipped across the country the same day, leaving their  
infant children without care, and where the companies that recruited,  
hired, and paid (sub-minimum) wages to these people were not  
seriously sanctioned.  Don't you care about that? If not, why not?

If the Bush administration were to prevail, and the guest worker  
program were made the law, then illegal immigrants could suddenly be  
legal, working residents.  Do you support that proposal? Why or why not?

David J. Rosen
djrosen at comcast.net

On May 3, 2007, at 3:40 PM, Kearney Lykins wrote:

> Linda,
>
> It is refreshing to see that someone out there (besides me)  
> acknowledges that the immigration debate is centered on law- 
> breaking, and what to do about it. This is a positive step forward.
>
> Kearney
>

_

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