[AAACE-NLA] AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 12
Andrea Wilder
andreawilder at comcast.net
Fri Mar 16 16:07:47 EDT 2007
Wait a minute, here. A sensible case for expanded funding can be made
to congress on the basis of waiting lists. It is critical that these
lists be kept, and that they be fed into a state "count." If we don't
agree on this we are really lost. "Well, ms x, you don't seem to know
how many people you want to serve, and I certainly cannot support your
bill unless i know the bottom line," etc. etc.
Andrea
On Mar 16, 2007, at 1:27 PM, Jon Steinberg wrote:
>
> Kearney,
> In response to your questions, the data do not exist. Here in New
> York, few programs keep waiting lists, since they can compound
> frustration by encouraging people to believe that they will soon be
> able to enroll. The need for services is so much greater than the
> supply that this is rarely the case. As to legal status, unless
> programs want to discourage people from enrolling, they’re not going
> to ask. The New York City Health and Hospitals Corporation, which
> serves most of the city’s low income and immigrant population, has an
> official policy that staff members who ask anyone’s legal status are
> subject to being fired. The HHC premise is that the health of the
> community should be our first priority. Many educators have a similar
> attitude to education.
>
> As you point out, immigrants who enter this country illegally
> sacrifice a lot. They also risk great dangers, take the most arduous
> jobs for low pay, and live a life of constant insecurity in a foreign
> country. Why have millions more immigrants than ever before subjected
> themselves to these conditions? Why did your ancestors and mine? In
> all likelihood, not because they wanted to leave their homes, but
> because they felt that their own survival and the survival of their
> families required them to do so. One major reason for the
> unprecedented levels of immigration today is that trade agreements
> with the US have crushed peasant economies in Mexico and other
> countries by lowering barriers to subsidized American corn and other
> products. Whether you read Adam Smith or Karl Marx, you will find that
> free flow of capital and goods leads to a corresponding flow of labor.
> If it isn’t a free flow of labor, it will be an “illegal” flow, but it
> will not stop as long as the conditions that cause it continue to
> exist.
>
>
>
> From: aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org
> [mailto:aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org] On Behalf Of Kearney
> Lykins
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 8:40 AM
> To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
> Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 12
>
> Janet,
>
> First let me say that you have not addressed either of the points or
> questions that I raised. My first point challenged the claim that "we
> all know we risk losing people because of waiting lists." I am asking
> for some evidence to support that claim. I have not seen it. What I
> have seen however is that when people perceive something as
> sufficiently valuable, they will wait a very long time to get it. Even
> illegal aliens. Often they scrimp and save for years to collect the
> funds they need to pay a coyote who facilitates their illegal entry
> into our country. Often they illegally work in the US for years,
> sending money (an estimate I saw was $35 billion/yr) back home until
> they can make it possible to legally or illegally arrange for their
> family members to join them. What I know is that I see evidence of
> patience.
>
> In my second point I inquired as to whether anyone knew the
> percentage of illegals who make up our waiting lists, and our in-class
> enrollment. So far no one on this listserve has spoken to this. I
> don't know if this is because a) the data doesn't exist, or b) people
> are unwilling to share it.
>
> I do not understand your conclusion that I have expressed "clearly
> and broadly anti-immigrant" views. But I'll tell you what is a broad
> assertion: that anyone who asks questions such as mine must be
> "anti-immigrant." I am not "against" immigration or immigrants. Every
> one of my ESOL students is an immigrant, and I work my butt off for
> them. The topic is not immigration. The topic at hand is illegal
> immigration and its effects on waiting lists.
>
> Kearney
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org"
> <aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org>
> To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 9:32:23 AM
> Subject: AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 12
> Send AAACE-NLA mailing list submissions to
> aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of AAACE-NLA digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 10 Waiting List
> Reduction (Janet Isserlis)
> 2. Re: AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 10 Waiting List
> Reduction (Salyer, Michael (DCE))
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 10:00:03 -0400
> From: Janet Isserlis <Janet_Isserlis at brown.edu>
> Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 10 Waiting
> List Reduction
> To: National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE
> <aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org>
> Message-ID: <C21EC9A3.159FE%Janet_Isserlis at brown.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Kearney
>
> in regards to Jane's claim ? you say you know no such thing. Can you
> say
> more about what it is you do know?
>
> And, as for your assertion of undocumented people cheating the system.
> While I absolutely respect your right to express your views, I wonder
> how
> you reconcile working in a field in which many do view their work as
> that of
> supporting adults' learning, (without making judgement about
> individuals'
> circumstances as such) with views that you have expressed that are
> clearly
> and broadly anti-immigrant when it comes to people's immigration
> status.
>
> I know you've spoken about the law, but I wonder if you've considered
> the
> circumstances under which people are compelled to come to a country
> which
> doesn't welcome them and in which they work very very hard in very
> very
> difficult jobs. Are there really viable choices here? I don't want
> to
> launch a pro/anti immigrant screed here, but would very much like to
> ask you
> and others on this list to begin to think carefully and try to
> articulate
> reasoned notions around our roles as educators, advocates (hence our
> presence on this list) and community members.
>
>
> Janet Isserlis
>
>
> Two concerns from an adult education professional who is interested in
> workers? rights and immigration issues:
>
> First, what is the evidence that Jane Hugo's claim is valid: "Adult
> educators know that they
> must find ways to engage these potential students [who are on waiting
> lists]
> in meaningful
> learning activities as soon as possible or risk losing them."
> I am an adult educator and I know no such thing.
>
> Second, does anyone know what portion of adult students who are
> already
> enrolled in
> our programs are illegal aliens who have cheated the system to gain
> entrance
> to our
> country, and hence into our classrooms?
>
> Kearney Lykins
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org"
> <aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org>
> To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 12:00:03 PM
> Subject: AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 10
>
> Send AAACE-NLA mailing list submissions to
> aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> aaace-nla-owner at lists.literacytent.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of AAACE-NLA digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Waiting List Reduction Resources Available from ProLiteracy
> (jhugo)
> 2. Report released by Southern Poverty Law Center (Lynda Terrill)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 16:59:24 -0500
> From: jhugo <jhugo at proliteracy.org>
> Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Waiting List Reduction Resources Available from
> ProLiteracy
> To: 'National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE'
> <aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org>
> Message-ID:
> <221E918332E818488687199E5CBD74CE0603913C at keats.proliteracy.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> According to recent surveys, thousands of potential adult basic
> literacy and
> English-language students across the country wait each month to start
> learning. Adult educators know that they must find ways to engage
> these
> potential students in meaningful learning activities as soon as
> possible or
> risk losing them.
>
> A resource that addresses how to reduce waiting lists is now
> available free,
> online from ProLiteracy America: Promising Practices: Reducing
> Waiting Lists
> in Adult Education and Literacy Programs (73-pages, pdf format).
>
> ProLiteracy worked with twenty-three adult education and literacy
> programs
> to identify promising practices that help reduce student waiting
> lists. In
> addition to the booklet, two videos (require high speed Internet
> connection)
> and the resources referred to in the booklet are available at
> www.proliteracy.org/resources.asp
> <http://www.proliteracy.org/resources.asp>
> <http://www.proliteracy.org/resources.asp>.
>
> This project was made possible through the generous support of the
> Dollar
> General Literacy Foundation.
>
> For more information, contact Michele Diecuch at info at proliteracy.org.
>
>
> Jane M. Hugo
> Director of Special Projects
> ProLiteracy America
> 1320 Jamesville Ave.
> Syracuse, NY 13210
> Phone: 315-422-9121, Ext. 318
> Fax: 315-422-6369
> Email:jhugo at proliteracy.org
> www.proliteracy.org <http://www.proliteracy.org>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 09:12:21 -0500
> From: "Lynda Terrill" <lrtschmed at hotmail.com>
> Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Report released by Southern Poverty Law Center
> To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
> Message-ID: <BAY135-F373F1A0C080BC0C25D0AEB1730 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
> On March 12, the Southern Poverty Law Center
> (http://www.splcenter.org/index.jsp ) announced a new report, Close to
> Slavery: Guestworker Programs in the United States
> (http://www.splcenter.org/news/item.jsp?aid=247). The report can be
> downloaded in pdf format at
> http://www.splcenter.org/pdf/static/SPLCguestworker.pdf . This report
> may be
> of interest to those involved with workers? rights and immigration
> issues.
>
> Lynda Terrill
> lrtschmed at msn.com
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Play Flexicon: the crossword game that feeds your brain. PLAY now for
> FREE.
> http://zone.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmtagline
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> AAACE-NLA mailing list
> AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
> http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
>
>
> End of AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 10
> *****************************************
>
>
>
> Get your own web address.
>
> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49678/*http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/
> domains/?p
> =BESTDEAL>
> Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
>
> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49678/*http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/
> domains/?p
> =BESTDEAL>
>
> _______________________________________________
> AAACE-NLA mailing list: AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
> http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
> LiteracyTent: web hosting, news, community and goodies for literacy
> http://literacytent.org
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 09:55:01 -0400
> From: "Salyer, Michael \(DCE\)" <Michael.Salyer at dce.virginia.gov>
> Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 10 Waiting
> List Reduction
> To: "National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE"
> <aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org>
> Message-ID:
> <45B7EC643773CA4CADFCA4D9E16B05D40180E4C2 at MAIL.dce.state.va.us>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Pro Literacy does a great job and should be commended for its work.
>
>
>
> My only concern is the redirection of funds to address a growing
> population. Illegal immigrants not only put a strain on the public
> school system but on our ABE volunteers and programs as well. As an
> adult educator in the correctional education system, we struggle for
> funding to provide services for our legal citizens that committed
> crimes. It seems almost criminal to me, that we would take funds from
> those already stressed budgets to provide an education for non English
> speaking people who not only broke the law by coming here, but then
> did
> not respect the laws of the communities they live in. We need a better
> understanding of the people we are expected to serve. They are
> creating
> an unprecedented strain on our schools, volunteers, our communities
> and
> of course our tax system. Giving them privileges that we deny our own
> native citizens seems like a poor answer. Taxing me and increasing my
> health care payments to subsidize the illegal worker industry is not a
> viable answer in my opinion.
>
>
>
> We are in a partnership with the Mexican government to provide
> educational services for inmates that are here illegally and are to be
> deported to their home country upon release. They pay us to teach them
> in Spanish instead of English. If they can do that then why can't the
> Mexican government pony up money for the millions of illegal
> immigrants
> in this country to offset their drag on our communities? Sending them
> back home would be my choice but maybe more literate than when they
> arrived so when they come back they can better participate in the
> American Dream. Just a thought.
>
>
>
> Michael W. Salyer
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org
> [mailto:aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org] On Behalf Of Kearney
> Lykins
> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 5:30 PM
> To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
> Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46,Issue 10 Waiting
> List
> Reduction
>
>
>
> Two concerns from an adult education professional who is interested in
> workers' rights and immigration issues:
>
> First, what is the evidence that Jane Hugo's claim is valid: "Adult
> educators know that they
> must find ways to engage these potential students [who are on waiting
> lists] in meaningful
> learning activities as soon as possible or risk losing them."
> I am an adult educator and I know no such thing.
>
> Second, does anyone know what portion of adult students who are
> already enrolled in
> our programs are illegal aliens who have cheated the system to gain
> entrance to our
> country, and hence into our classrooms?
>
> Kearney Lykins
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org"
> <aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org>
> To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 12:00:03 PM
> Subject: AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 10
>
> Send AAACE-NLA mailing list submissions to
> aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> aaace-nla-owner at lists.literacytent.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of AAACE-NLA digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Waiting List Reduction Resources Available from ProLiteracy
> (jhugo)
> 2. Report released by Southern Poverty Law Center (Lynda Terrill)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 16:59:24 -0500
> From: jhugo <jhugo at proliteracy.org>
> Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Waiting List Reduction Resources Available from
> ProLiteracy
> To: 'National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE'
> <aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org>
> Message-ID:
> <221E918332E818488687199E5CBD74CE0603913C at keats.proliteracy.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> According to recent surveys, thousands of potential adult basic
> literacy
> and
> English-language students across the country wait each month to start
> learning. Adult educators know that they must find ways to engage
> these
> potential students in meaningful learning activities as soon as
> possible
> or
> risk losing them.
>
> A resource that addresses how to reduce waiting lists is now available
> free,
> online from ProLiteracy America: Promising Practices: Reducing Waiting
> Lists
> in Adult Education and Literacy Programs (73-pages, pdf format).
>
> ProLiteracy worked with twenty-three adult education and literacy
> programs
> to identify promising practices that help reduce student waiting
> lists.
> In
> addition to the booklet, two videos (require high speed Internet
> connection)
> and the resources referred to in the booklet are available at
> www.proliteracy.org/resources.asp
> <http://www.proliteracy.org/resources.asp>.
>
> This project was made possible through the generous support of the
> Dollar
> General Literacy Foundation.
>
> For more information, contact Michele Diecuch at info at proliteracy.org.
>
>
> Jane M. Hugo
> Director of Special Projects
> ProLiteracy America
> 1320 Jamesville Ave.
> Syracuse, NY 13210
> Phone: 315-422-9121, Ext. 318
> Fax: 315-422-6369
> Email:jhugo at proliteracy.org
> www.proliteracy.org
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 09:12:21 -0500
> From: "Lynda Terrill" <lrtschmed at hotmail.com>
> Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Report released by Southern Poverty Law Center
> To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
> Message-ID: <BAY135-F373F1A0C080BC0C25D0AEB1730 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
> On March 12, the Southern Poverty Law Center
> (http://www.splcenter.org/index.jsp ) announced a new report, Close to
> Slavery: Guestworker Programs in the United States
> (http://www.splcenter.org/news/item.jsp?aid=247). The report can be
> downloaded in pdf format at
> http://www.splcenter.org/pdf/static/SPLCguestworker.pdf . This report
> may be
> of interest to those involved with workers' rights and immigration
> issues.
>
> Lynda Terrill
> lrtschmed at msn.com
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Play Flexicon: the crossword game that feeds your brain. PLAY now for
> FREE.
> http://zone.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmtagline
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> AAACE-NLA mailing list
> AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
> http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
>
>
> End of AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 10
> *****************************************
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> Get your own web address.
>
> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49678/*http:/smallbusiness.yahoo.com/
> domains
> /?p=BESTDEAL>
> Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
>
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>
> _______________________________________________
> AAACE-NLA mailing list
> AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
> http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
>
>
> End of AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 12
> *****************************************
>
>
>
> Don't pick lemons.
> See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
> _______________________________________________
> AAACE-NLA mailing list: AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
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> http://literacytent.org
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