[AAACE-NLA] AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 12

Andrea Wilder andreawilder at comcast.net
Fri Mar 16 16:07:47 EDT 2007


Wait a minute, here.  A sensible case for expanded funding can be made  
to congress on the basis of waiting lists.  It is critical that these  
lists be kept, and that they be fed into a state "count."  If we don't  
agree on this we are really lost.  "Well, ms x, you don't seem to know  
how many people you want to serve, and I certainly cannot support your  
bill unless i know the bottom line,"  etc. etc.

Andrea

On Mar 16, 2007, at 1:27 PM, Jon Steinberg wrote:

>
> Kearney,
> In response to your questions, the data do not exist. Here in New  
> York, few programs keep waiting lists, since they can compound  
> frustration by encouraging people to believe that they will soon be  
> able to enroll. The need for services is so much greater than the  
> supply that this is rarely the case. As to legal status, unless  
> programs want to discourage people from enrolling, they’re not going  
> to ask. The New York City Health and Hospitals Corporation, which  
> serves most of the city’s low income and immigrant population, has an  
> official policy that staff members who ask anyone’s legal status are  
> subject to being fired. The HHC premise is that the health of the  
> community should be our first priority. Many educators have a similar  
> attitude to education.
>  
> As you point out, immigrants who enter this country illegally  
> sacrifice a lot. They also risk great dangers, take the most arduous  
> jobs for low pay, and live a life of constant insecurity in a foreign  
> country. Why have millions more immigrants than ever before subjected  
> themselves to these conditions? Why did your ancestors and mine? In  
> all likelihood, not because they wanted to leave their homes, but  
> because they felt that their own survival and the survival of their  
> families required them to do so. One major reason for the  
> unprecedented levels of immigration today is that trade agreements  
> with the US have crushed peasant economies in Mexico and other  
> countries by lowering barriers to subsidized American corn and other  
> products. Whether you read Adam Smith or Karl Marx, you will find that  
> free flow of capital and goods leads to a corresponding flow of labor.  
> If it isn’t a free flow of labor, it will be an “illegal” flow, but it  
> will not stop as long as the conditions that cause it continue to  
> exist.
>  
>  
>
> From: aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org  
> [mailto:aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org] On Behalf Of Kearney  
> Lykins
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 8:40 AM
> To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
> Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 12
>  
> Janet,
>
>  First let me say that you have not addressed either of the points or  
> questions that I raised. My first point challenged the claim that "we  
> all know we risk losing people because of waiting lists." I am asking  
> for some evidence to support that claim. I have not seen it.  What I  
> have seen however is that when people perceive something as  
> sufficiently valuable, they will wait a very long time to get it. Even  
> illegal aliens. Often they scrimp and save for years to collect the  
> funds they need to pay a coyote who facilitates their illegal entry  
> into our country. Often they illegally work in the US for years,  
> sending money (an estimate I saw was $35 billion/yr) back home until  
> they can make it possible to legally or illegally arrange for their  
> family members to join them. What I know is that I see evidence of  
> patience.
>
>  In my second point I inquired as to whether anyone knew the  
> percentage of illegals who make up our waiting lists, and our in-class  
> enrollment. So far no one on this listserve has spoken to this. I  
> don't know if this is because a) the data doesn't exist, or b) people  
> are unwilling to share it.
>
>  I do not understand your conclusion that I have expressed "clearly  
> and broadly anti-immigrant" views. But I'll tell you what is a broad  
> assertion: that anyone who asks questions such as mine must be  
> "anti-immigrant." I am not "against" immigration or immigrants. Every  
> one of my ESOL students is an immigrant, and I work my butt off for  
> them. The topic is not immigration. The topic at hand is illegal  
> immigration and its effects on waiting lists.
>
> Kearney
>
>  
>
> ----- Original Message ----
>  From: "aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org"  
> <aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org>
>  To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
>  Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 9:32:23 AM
>  Subject: AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 12
> Send AAACE-NLA mailing list submissions to
>      aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
>
>  To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>      http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
>  or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>      aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org
>
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>
>  When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>  than "Re: Contents of AAACE-NLA digest..."
>
>
>  Today's Topics:
>
>     1. Re:  AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 10 Waiting List
>        Reduction (Janet Isserlis)
>     2. Re:  AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46,    Issue 10 Waiting List
>        Reduction (Salyer, Michael (DCE))
>
>
>  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>  Message: 1
>  Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 10:00:03 -0400
>  From: Janet Isserlis <Janet_Isserlis at brown.edu>
>  Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 10 Waiting
>      List Reduction
>  To: National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE
>      <aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org>
>  Message-ID: <C21EC9A3.159FE%Janet_Isserlis at brown.edu>
>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Kearney
>
>  in regards to Jane's claim ? you say you know no such thing.  Can you  
> say
>  more about what it is you do know?
>
>  And, as for your assertion of undocumented people cheating the system.
>  While I absolutely respect your right to express your views, I wonder  
> how
>  you reconcile working in a field in which many do view their work as  
> that of
>  supporting adults' learning, (without making judgement about  
> individuals'
>  circumstances as such) with views that you have expressed that are  
> clearly
>  and broadly anti-immigrant when it comes to people's immigration  
> status.
>
>  I know you've spoken about the law, but I wonder if you've considered  
> the
>  circumstances under which people are compelled to come to a country  
> which
>  doesn't welcome them and in which they work very very hard in very  
> very
>  difficult jobs.  Are there really viable choices here?  I don't want  
> to
>  launch a pro/anti immigrant screed here, but would very much like to  
> ask you
>  and others on this list to begin to think carefully and try to  
> articulate
>  reasoned notions around our roles as educators, advocates (hence our
>  presence on this list) and community members.
>
>
>  Janet Isserlis
>
>
>  Two concerns from an adult education professional who is interested in
>  workers? rights and immigration issues:
>
>    First, what is the evidence that Jane Hugo's claim is valid: "Adult
>  educators know that they
>  must find ways to engage these potential students [who are on waiting  
> lists]
>  in meaningful
>  learning activities as soon as possible or risk losing them."
>  I am an adult educator and I know no such thing.
>
>    Second, does anyone know what portion of adult students who are  
> already
>  enrolled in
>  our programs are illegal aliens who have cheated the system to gain  
> entrance
>  to our
>  country, and hence into our classrooms?
>
> Kearney Lykins
>
>
>
>  ----- Original Message ----
>  From: "aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org"
>  <aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org>
>  To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
>  Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 12:00:03 PM
>  Subject: AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 10
>
>  Send AAACE-NLA mailing list submissions to
>      aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
>
>  To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>      http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
>  or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>      aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org
>
>  You can reach the person managing the list at
>      aaace-nla-owner at lists.literacytent.org
>
>  When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>  than "Re: Contents of AAACE-NLA digest..."
>
>
>  Today's Topics:
>
>     1.  Waiting List Reduction Resources Available from    ProLiteracy
>        (jhugo)
>     2.  Report released by Southern Poverty Law Center (Lynda Terrill)
>
>
>  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>  Message: 1
>  Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 16:59:24 -0500
>  From: jhugo <jhugo at proliteracy.org>
>  Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Waiting List Reduction Resources Available from
>      ProLiteracy
>  To: 'National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE'
>      <aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org>
>  Message-ID:
>      <221E918332E818488687199E5CBD74CE0603913C at keats.proliteracy.org>
>  Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
>  According to recent surveys, thousands of potential adult basic  
> literacy and
>  English-language students across the country wait each month to start
>  learning. Adult educators know that they must find ways to engage  
> these
>  potential students in meaningful learning activities as soon as  
> possible or
>  risk losing them.
>
>  A resource that addresses how to reduce waiting lists is now  
> available free,
>  online from ProLiteracy America: Promising Practices: Reducing  
> Waiting Lists
>  in Adult Education and Literacy Programs (73-pages, pdf format).
>
>  ProLiteracy worked with twenty-three adult education and literacy  
> programs
>  to identify promising practices that help reduce student waiting  
> lists. In
>  addition to the booklet, two videos (require high speed Internet  
> connection)
>  and the resources referred to in the booklet are available at
> www.proliteracy.org/resources.asp  
> <http://www.proliteracy.org/resources.asp>
>  <http://www.proliteracy.org/resources.asp>.
>
>  This project was made possible through the generous support of the  
> Dollar
>  General Literacy Foundation.
>
>  For more information, contact Michele Diecuch at info at proliteracy.org.
>
>
>  Jane M. Hugo
>  Director of Special Projects
>  ProLiteracy America
> 1320 Jamesville Ave.
> Syracuse, NY  13210
>  Phone: 315-422-9121, Ext. 318
>  Fax: 315-422-6369
>  Email:jhugo at proliteracy.org
> www.proliteracy.org <http://www.proliteracy.org>
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
>  Message: 2
>  Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 09:12:21 -0500
>  From: "Lynda Terrill" <lrtschmed at hotmail.com>
>  Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Report released by Southern Poverty Law Center
>  To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
>  Message-ID: <BAY135-F373F1A0C080BC0C25D0AEB1730 at phx.gbl>
>  Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
>  Dear colleagues,
>
>  On March  12, the Southern Poverty Law Center
>  (http://www.splcenter.org/index.jsp ) announced a new report, Close to
>  Slavery: Guestworker Programs in the United States
>  (http://www.splcenter.org/news/item.jsp?aid=247).  The report can be
>  downloaded in pdf format at
> http://www.splcenter.org/pdf/static/SPLCguestworker.pdf . This report  
> may be
>  of interest to those involved with workers? rights and immigration  
> issues.
>
>  Lynda Terrill
>  lrtschmed at msn.com
>
>  _________________________________________________________________
>  Play Flexicon: the crossword game that feeds your brain. PLAY now for  
> FREE.
>    http://zone.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmtagline
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  AAACE-NLA mailing list
>  AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
> http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
>
>
>  End of AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 10
>  *****************************************
>
>
>
>  Get your own web address.
>   
> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49678/*http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/ 
> domains/?p
>  =BESTDEAL>
>  Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
>   
> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49678/*http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/ 
> domains/?p
>  =BESTDEAL>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  AAACE-NLA mailing list: AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
> http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
>  LiteracyTent: web hosting, news, community and goodies for literacy
> http://literacytent.org
>
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>  ------------------------------
>
>  Message: 2
>  Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 09:55:01 -0400
>  From: "Salyer, Michael \(DCE\)" <Michael.Salyer at dce.virginia.gov>
>  Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46,    Issue 10 Waiting
>      List Reduction
>  To: "National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE"
>      <aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org>
>  Message-ID:
>      <45B7EC643773CA4CADFCA4D9E16B05D40180E4C2 at MAIL.dce.state.va.us>
>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>  Pro Literacy does a great job and should be commended for its work.
>
>
>
>  My only concern is the redirection of funds to address a growing
>  population. Illegal immigrants not only put a strain on the public
>  school system but on our ABE volunteers and programs as well.  As an
>  adult educator in the correctional education system, we struggle for
>  funding to provide services for our legal citizens that committed
>  crimes. It seems almost criminal to me, that we would take funds from
>  those already stressed budgets to provide an education for non English
>  speaking people who not only broke the law by coming here, but then  
> did
>  not respect the laws of the communities they live in. We need a better
>  understanding of the people we are expected to serve. They are  
> creating
>  an unprecedented strain on our schools, volunteers, our communities  
> and
>  of course our tax system. Giving them privileges that we deny our own
>  native citizens seems like a poor answer. Taxing me and increasing my
>  health care payments to subsidize the illegal worker industry is not a
>  viable answer in my opinion.
>
>
>
>  We are in a partnership with the Mexican government to provide
>  educational services for inmates that are here illegally and are to be
>  deported to their home country upon release. They pay us to teach them
>  in Spanish instead of English. If they can do that then why can't the
>  Mexican government pony up money for the millions of illegal  
> immigrants
>  in this country to offset their drag on our communities? Sending them
>  back home would be my choice but maybe more literate than when they
>  arrived so when they come back they can better participate in the
>  American Dream.  Just a thought.
>
>
>
>  Michael W. Salyer
>
>
>
>
>
>  ________________________________
>
>  From: aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org
>  [mailto:aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org] On Behalf Of Kearney
>  Lykins
>  Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 5:30 PM
>  To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
>  Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46,Issue 10 Waiting  
> List
>  Reduction
>
>
>
>  Two concerns from an adult education professional who is interested in
>  workers' rights and immigration issues:
>
>    First, what is the evidence that Jane Hugo's claim is valid: "Adult
>  educators know that they
>  must find ways to engage these potential students [who are on waiting
>  lists] in meaningful
>  learning activities as soon as possible or risk losing them."  
>  I am an adult educator and I know no such thing.
>
>    Second, does anyone know what portion of adult students who are
>  already enrolled in
>  our programs are illegal aliens who have cheated the system to gain
>  entrance to our
>  country, and hence into our classrooms?
>
> Kearney Lykins
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  ----- Original Message ----
>  From: "aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org"
>  <aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org>
>  To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
>  Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 12:00:03 PM
>  Subject: AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 10
>
>  Send AAACE-NLA mailing list submissions to
>      aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
>
>  To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>      http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
>  or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>      aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org
>
>  You can reach the person managing the list at
>      aaace-nla-owner at lists.literacytent.org
>
>  When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>  than "Re: Contents of AAACE-NLA digest..."
>
>
>  Today's Topics:
>
>     1.  Waiting List Reduction Resources Available from    ProLiteracy
>        (jhugo)
>     2.  Report released by Southern Poverty Law Center (Lynda Terrill)
>
>
>  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>  Message: 1
>  Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 16:59:24 -0500
>  From: jhugo <jhugo at proliteracy.org>
>  Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Waiting List Reduction Resources Available from
>      ProLiteracy
>  To: 'National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE'
>      <aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org>
>  Message-ID:
>      <221E918332E818488687199E5CBD74CE0603913C at keats.proliteracy.org>
>  Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
>  According to recent surveys, thousands of potential adult basic  
> literacy
>  and
>  English-language students across the country wait each month to start
>  learning. Adult educators know that they must find ways to engage  
> these
>  potential students in meaningful learning activities as soon as  
> possible
>  or
>  risk losing them.
>
>  A resource that addresses how to reduce waiting lists is now available
>  free,
>  online from ProLiteracy America: Promising Practices: Reducing Waiting
>  Lists
>  in Adult Education and Literacy Programs (73-pages, pdf format).
>
>  ProLiteracy worked with twenty-three adult education and literacy
>  programs
>  to identify promising practices that help reduce student waiting  
> lists.
>  In
>  addition to the booklet, two videos (require high speed Internet
>  connection)
>  and the resources referred to in the booklet are available at
> www.proliteracy.org/resources.asp
>  <http://www.proliteracy.org/resources.asp>.
>
>  This project was made possible through the generous support of the
>  Dollar
>  General Literacy Foundation.
>
>  For more information, contact Michele Diecuch at info at proliteracy.org.
>
>
>  Jane M. Hugo
>  Director of Special Projects
>  ProLiteracy America
> 1320 Jamesville Ave.
> Syracuse, NY  13210
>  Phone: 315-422-9121, Ext. 318
>  Fax: 315-422-6369
>  Email:jhugo at proliteracy.org
> www.proliteracy.org
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
>  Message: 2
>  Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 09:12:21 -0500
>  From: "Lynda Terrill" <lrtschmed at hotmail.com>
>  Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Report released by Southern Poverty Law Center
>  To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
>  Message-ID: <BAY135-F373F1A0C080BC0C25D0AEB1730 at phx.gbl>
>  Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
>  Dear colleagues,
>
>  On March  12, the Southern Poverty Law Center
>  (http://www.splcenter.org/index.jsp ) announced a new report, Close to
>  Slavery: Guestworker Programs in the United States
>  (http://www.splcenter.org/news/item.jsp?aid=247).  The report can be
>  downloaded in pdf format at
> http://www.splcenter.org/pdf/static/SPLCguestworker.pdf . This report
>  may be
>  of interest to those involved with workers' rights and immigration
>  issues.
>
>  Lynda Terrill
>  lrtschmed at msn.com
>
>  _________________________________________________________________
>  Play Flexicon: the crossword game that feeds your brain. PLAY now for
>  FREE.  
>    http://zone.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmtagline
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  AAACE-NLA mailing list
>  AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
> http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
>
>
>  End of AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 10
>  *****************************************
>
>
>
>
>
>  ________________________________
>
>  Get your own web address.
>   
> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49678/*http:/smallbusiness.yahoo.com/ 
> domains
>  /?p=BESTDEAL>
>  Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
>
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>  _______________________________________________
>  AAACE-NLA mailing list
>  AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
> http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
>
>
>  End of AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 12
>  *****************************************
>  
>  
>
> Don't pick lemons.
>  See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
> _______________________________________________
> AAACE-NLA mailing list: AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
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