[AAACE-NLA] AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 12

Fri Mar 16 13:27:52 EDT 2007

Kearney,

In response to your questions, the data do not exist. Here in New York,
few programs keep waiting lists, since they can compound frustration by
encouraging people to believe that they will soon be able to enroll. The
need for services is so much greater than the supply that this is rarely
the case. As to legal status, unless programs want to discourage people
from enrolling, they're not going to ask. The New York City Health and
Hospitals Corporation, which serves most of the city's low income and
immigrant population, has an official policy that staff members who ask
anyone's legal status are subject to being fired. The HHC premise is
that the health of the community should be our first priority. Many
educators have a similar attitude to education.

As you point out, immigrants who enter this country illegally sacrifice
a lot. They also risk great dangers, take the most arduous jobs for low
pay, and live a life of constant insecurity in a foreign country. Why
have millions more immigrants than ever before subjected themselves to
these conditions? Why did your ancestors and mine? In all likelihood,
not because they wanted to leave their homes, but because they felt that
their own survival and the survival of their families required them to
do so. One major reason for the unprecedented levels of immigration
today is that trade agreements with the US have crushed peasant
economies in Mexico and other countries by lowering barriers to
subsidized American corn and other products. Whether you read Adam Smith
or Karl Marx, you will find that free flow of capital and goods leads to
a corresponding flow of labor. If it isn't a free flow of labor, it will
be an "illegal" flow, but it will not stop as long as the conditions
that cause it continue to exist.

________________________________

From: aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org
[mailto:aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org] On Behalf Of Kearney
Lykins
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 8:40 AM
To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 12

Janet,

First let me say that you have not addressed either of the points or
questions that I raised. My first point challenged the claim that "we
all know we risk losing people because of waiting lists." I am asking
for some evidence to support that claim. I have not seen it.  What I
have seen however is that when people perceive something as sufficiently
valuable, they will wait a very long time to get it. Even illegal
aliens. Often they scrimp and save for years to collect the funds they
need to pay a coyote who facilitates their illegal entry into our
country. Often they illegally work in the US for years, sending money
(an estimate I saw was $35 billion/yr) back home until they can make it
possible to legally or illegally arrange for their family members to
join them. What I know is that I see evidence of patience. 

In my second point I inquired as to whether anyone knew the percentage
of illegals who make up our waiting lists, and our in-class enrollment.
So far no one on this listserve has spoken to this. I don't know if this
is because a) the data doesn't exist, or b) people are unwilling to
share it. 

I do not understand your conclusion that I have expressed "clearly and
broadly anti-immigrant" views. But I'll tell you what is a broad
assertion: that anyone who asks questions such as mine must be
"anti-immigrant." I am not "against" immigration or immigrants. Every
one of my ESOL students is an immigrant, and I work my butt off for
them. The topic is not immigration. The topic at hand is illegal
immigration and its effects on waiting lists.

Kearney

----- Original Message ----
From: "aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org"
<aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org>
To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 9:32:23 AM
Subject: AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 12

Send AAACE-NLA mailing list submissions to
    aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
    http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
    aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
    aaace-nla-owner at lists.literacytent.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of AAACE-NLA digest..."

Today's Topics:

   1. Re:  AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 10 Waiting List
      Reduction (Janet Isserlis)
   2. Re:  AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46,    Issue 10 Waiting List
      Reduction (Salyer, Michael (DCE))

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 10:00:03 -0400
From: Janet Isserlis <Janet_Isserlis at brown.edu>
Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 10 Waiting
    List Reduction
To: National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE
    <aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org>
Message-ID: <C21EC9A3.159FE%Janet_Isserlis at brown.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Kearney

in regards to Jane's claim ? you say you know no such thing.  Can you
say
more about what it is you do know?

And, as for your assertion of undocumented people cheating the system.
While I absolutely respect your right to express your views, I wonder
how
you reconcile working in a field in which many do view their work as
that of
supporting adults' learning, (without making judgement about
individuals'
circumstances as such) with views that you have expressed that are
clearly
and broadly anti-immigrant when it comes to people's immigration status.

I know you've spoken about the law, but I wonder if you've considered
the
circumstances under which people are compelled to come to a country
which
doesn't welcome them and in which they work very very hard in very very
difficult jobs.  Are there really viable choices here?  I don't want to
launch a pro/anti immigrant screed here, but would very much like to ask
you
and others on this list to begin to think carefully and try to
articulate
reasoned notions around our roles as educators, advocates (hence our
presence on this list) and community members.

Janet Isserlis

Two concerns from an adult education professional who is interested in
workers? rights and immigration issues:

  First, what is the evidence that Jane Hugo's claim is valid: "Adult
educators know that they
must find ways to engage these potential students [who are on waiting
lists]
in meaningful 
learning activities as soon as possible or risk losing them."
I am an adult educator and I know no such thing.

  Second, does anyone know what portion of adult students who are
already
enrolled in 
our programs are illegal aliens who have cheated the system to gain
entrance
to our 
country, and hence into our classrooms?

Kearney Lykins

----- Original Message ----
From: "aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org"
<aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org>
To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 12:00:03 PM
Subject: AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 10

Send AAACE-NLA mailing list submissions to
    aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
    http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
    aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
    aaace-nla-owner at lists.literacytent.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of AAACE-NLA digest..."

Today's Topics:

   1.  Waiting List Reduction Resources Available from    ProLiteracy
      (jhugo)
   2.  Report released by Southern Poverty Law Center (Lynda Terrill)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 16:59:24 -0500
From: jhugo <jhugo at proliteracy.org>
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Waiting List Reduction Resources Available from
    ProLiteracy
To: 'National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE'
    <aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org>
Message-ID:
    <221E918332E818488687199E5CBD74CE0603913C at keats.proliteracy.org>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="iso-8859-1"

According to recent surveys, thousands of potential adult basic literacy
and
English-language students across the country wait each month to start
learning. Adult educators know that they must find ways to engage these
potential students in meaningful learning activities as soon as possible
or
risk losing them.

A resource that addresses how to reduce waiting lists is now available
free,
online from ProLiteracy America: Promising Practices: Reducing Waiting
Lists
in Adult Education and Literacy Programs (73-pages, pdf format).

ProLiteracy worked with twenty-three adult education and literacy
programs
to identify promising practices that help reduce student waiting lists.
In
addition to the booklet, two videos (require high speed Internet
connection)
and the resources referred to in the booklet are available at
www.proliteracy.org/resources.asp
<http://www.proliteracy.org/resources.asp>
<http://www.proliteracy.org/resources.asp>.

This project was made possible through the generous support of the
Dollar
General Literacy Foundation.

For more information, contact Michele Diecuch at info at proliteracy.org.

Jane M. Hugo
Director of Special Projects
ProLiteracy America
1320 Jamesville Ave.
Syracuse, NY  13210
Phone: 315-422-9121, Ext. 318
Fax: 315-422-6369
Email:jhugo at proliteracy.org
www.proliteracy.org <http://www.proliteracy.org>

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 09:12:21 -0500
From: "Lynda Terrill" <lrtschmed at hotmail.com>
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Report released by Southern Poverty Law Center
To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
Message-ID: <BAY135-F373F1A0C080BC0C25D0AEB1730 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Dear colleagues,

On March  12, the Southern Poverty Law Center
(http://www.splcenter.org/index.jsp ) announced a new report, Close to
Slavery: Guestworker Programs in the United States
(http://www.splcenter.org/news/item.jsp?aid=247).  The report can be
downloaded in pdf format at
http://www.splcenter.org/pdf/static/SPLCguestworker.pdf . This report
may be
of interest to those involved with workers? rights and immigration
issues.

Lynda Terrill
lrtschmed at msn.com

_________________________________________________________________
Play Flexicon: the crossword game that feeds your brain. PLAY now for
FREE.
  http://zone.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmtagline

------------------------------

_______________________________________________
AAACE-NLA mailing list
AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla

End of AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 10
*****************************************

Get your own web address.
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49678/*http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domain
s/?p
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49678/*http:/smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains
/?p> 
=BESTDEAL> 
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49678/*http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domain
s/?p
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49678/*http:/smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains
/?p> 
=BESTDEAL> 

_______________________________________________
AAACE-NLA mailing list: AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
LiteracyTent: web hosting, news, community and goodies for literacy
http://literacytent.org

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://lists.literacytent.org/pipermail/aaace-nla/attachments/20070315/d
1ea9f26/attachment-0001.html

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 09:55:01 -0400
From: "Salyer, Michael \(DCE\)" <Michael.Salyer at dce.virginia.gov>
Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46,    Issue 10 Waiting
    List Reduction
To: "National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE"
    <aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org>
Message-ID:
    <45B7EC643773CA4CADFCA4D9E16B05D40180E4C2 at MAIL.dce.state.va.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Pro Literacy does a great job and should be commended for its work. 

My only concern is the redirection of funds to address a growing
population. Illegal immigrants not only put a strain on the public
school system but on our ABE volunteers and programs as well.  As an
adult educator in the correctional education system, we struggle for
funding to provide services for our legal citizens that committed
crimes. It seems almost criminal to me, that we would take funds from
those already stressed budgets to provide an education for non English
speaking people who not only broke the law by coming here, but then did
not respect the laws of the communities they live in. We need a better
understanding of the people we are expected to serve. They are creating
an unprecedented strain on our schools, volunteers, our communities and
of course our tax system. Giving them privileges that we deny our own
native citizens seems like a poor answer. Taxing me and increasing my
health care payments to subsidize the illegal worker industry is not a
viable answer in my opinion. 

We are in a partnership with the Mexican government to provide
educational services for inmates that are here illegally and are to be
deported to their home country upon release. They pay us to teach them
in Spanish instead of English. If they can do that then why can't the
Mexican government pony up money for the millions of illegal immigrants
in this country to offset their drag on our communities? Sending them
back home would be my choice but maybe more literate than when they
arrived so when they come back they can better participate in the
American Dream.  Just a thought.

Michael W. Salyer

________________________________

From: aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org
[mailto:aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org] On Behalf Of Kearney
Lykins
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 5:30 PM
To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46,Issue 10 Waiting List
Reduction

Two concerns from an adult education professional who is interested in
workers' rights and immigration issues:

  First, what is the evidence that Jane Hugo's claim is valid: "Adult
educators know that they 
must find ways to engage these potential students [who are on waiting
lists] in meaningful 
learning activities as soon as possible or risk losing them."  
I am an adult educator and I know no such thing. 

  Second, does anyone know what portion of adult students who are
already enrolled in 
our programs are illegal aliens who have cheated the system to gain
entrance to our 
country, and hence into our classrooms? 

Kearney Lykins

----- Original Message ----
From: "aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org"
<aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org>
To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 12:00:03 PM
Subject: AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 10

Send AAACE-NLA mailing list submissions to
    aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
    http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
    aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
    aaace-nla-owner at lists.literacytent.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of AAACE-NLA digest..."

Today's Topics:

   1.  Waiting List Reduction Resources Available from    ProLiteracy
      (jhugo)
   2.  Report released by Southern Poverty Law Center (Lynda Terrill)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 16:59:24 -0500
From: jhugo <jhugo at proliteracy.org>
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Waiting List Reduction Resources Available from
    ProLiteracy
To: 'National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE'
    <aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org>
Message-ID:
    <221E918332E818488687199E5CBD74CE0603913C at keats.proliteracy.org>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="iso-8859-1"

According to recent surveys, thousands of potential adult basic literacy
and
English-language students across the country wait each month to start
learning. Adult educators know that they must find ways to engage these
potential students in meaningful learning activities as soon as possible
or
risk losing them.

A resource that addresses how to reduce waiting lists is now available
free,
online from ProLiteracy America: Promising Practices: Reducing Waiting
Lists
in Adult Education and Literacy Programs (73-pages, pdf format).

ProLiteracy worked with twenty-three adult education and literacy
programs
to identify promising practices that help reduce student waiting lists.
In
addition to the booklet, two videos (require high speed Internet
connection)
and the resources referred to in the booklet are available at
www.proliteracy.org/resources.asp
<http://www.proliteracy.org/resources.asp>.

This project was made possible through the generous support of the
Dollar
General Literacy Foundation.

For more information, contact Michele Diecuch at info at proliteracy.org.

Jane M. Hugo
Director of Special Projects
ProLiteracy America
1320 Jamesville Ave.
Syracuse, NY  13210
Phone: 315-422-9121, Ext. 318
Fax: 315-422-6369
Email:jhugo at proliteracy.org
www.proliteracy.org

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 09:12:21 -0500
From: "Lynda Terrill" <lrtschmed at hotmail.com>
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Report released by Southern Poverty Law Center
To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
Message-ID: <BAY135-F373F1A0C080BC0C25D0AEB1730 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Dear colleagues,

On March  12, the Southern Poverty Law Center 
(http://www.splcenter.org/index.jsp ) announced a new report, Close to 
Slavery: Guestworker Programs in the United States 
(http://www.splcenter.org/news/item.jsp?aid=247).  The report can be 
downloaded in pdf format at 
http://www.splcenter.org/pdf/static/SPLCguestworker.pdf . This report
may be 
of interest to those involved with workers' rights and immigration
issues.

Lynda Terrill
lrtschmed at msn.com

_________________________________________________________________
Play Flexicon: the crossword game that feeds your brain. PLAY now for
FREE.  
  http://zone.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmtagline

------------------------------

_______________________________________________
AAACE-NLA mailing list
AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla

End of AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 10
*****************************************

________________________________

Get your own web address.
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49678/*http:/smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains
/?p=BESTDEAL> 
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://lists.literacytent.org/pipermail/aaace-nla/attachments/20070315/4
db1ed37/attachment.html

------------------------------

_______________________________________________
AAACE-NLA mailing list
AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla

End of AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 12
*****************************************

________________________________

Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars
<http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html;_ylc=X3oDMTE0OGRsc3F2BF9TAzk3MTA3M
Dc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDbmV3Y2Fycw-->  at Yahoo! Autos.
<http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html;_ylc=X3oDMTE0OGRsc3F2BF9TAzk3MTA3M
Dc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDbmV3Y2Fycw--> 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.literacytent.org/pipermail/aaace-nla/attachments/20070316/09333a52/attachment-0001.html