[AAACE-NLA] AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 12
Janet Isserlis
Janet_Isserlis at brown.edu
Fri Mar 16 12:07:42 EDT 2007
Kearney
Fair enough. I don't have data that breaks down #s of people on waiting
lists who may or may not have documents.
My own experience indicates that when adults are unable to join learning
programs because of waiting lists, they may or may not be able to wait for
openings, or the may not be able to participate because of work schedules,
or other situational factors that get in the way of their joining a class
in, say, March for which they may have had time in October.
Either way, my assertion of anti-immigrant sentiment comes from the use of
the word "illegal" and "immigration" in the same sentence.
As to whether or not the data exists, or isn't being shared, I believe has
little bearing on the fact that overall adult education is under resourced,
period. I find that making the distinction between those who have papers
and those who haven't in terms of assessing need for classes is not helpful.
On this we may never agree.
From: Kearney Lykins <kearney_lykins at yahoo.com>
Reply-To: National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE
<aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org>
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 05:40:18 -0700 (PDT)
To: <aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org>
Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 12
Janet,
First let me say that you have not addressed either of the points or
questions that I raised. My first point challenged the claim that "we all
know we risk losing people because of waiting lists." I am asking for some
evidence to support that claim. I have not seen it. What I have seen
however is that when people perceive something as sufficiently valuable,
they will wait a very long time to get it. Even illegal aliens. Often they
scrimp and save for years to collect the funds they need to pay a coyote who
facilitates their illegal entry into our country. Often they illegally work
in the US for years, sending money (an estimate I saw was $35 billion/yr)
back home until they can make it possible to legally or illegally arrange
for their family members to join them. What I know is that I see evidence of
patience.
In my second point I inquired as to whether anyone knew the percentage of
illegals who make up our waiting lists, and our in-class enrollment. So far
no one on this listserve has spoken to this. I don't know if this is because
a) the data doesn't exist, or b) people are unwilling to share it.
I do not understand your conclusion that I have expressed "clearly and
broadly anti-immigrant" views. But I'll tell you what is a broad assertion:
that anyone who asks questions such as mine must be "anti-immigrant." I am
not "against" immigration or immigrants. Every one of my ESOL students is an
immigrant, and I work my butt off for them. The topic is not immigration.
The topic at hand is illegal immigration and its effects on waiting lists.
Kearney
----- Original Message ----
From: "aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org"
<aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org>
To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 9:32:23 AM
Subject: AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 12
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 10 Waiting List
Reduction (Janet Isserlis)
2. Re: AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 10 Waiting List
Reduction (Salyer, Michael (DCE))
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 10:00:03 -0400
From: Janet Isserlis <Janet_Isserlis at brown.edu>
Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 10 Waiting
List Reduction
To: National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE
<aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org>
Message-ID: <C21EC9A3.159FE%Janet_Isserlis at brown.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Kearney
in regards to Jane's claim ? you say you know no such thing. Can you say
more about what it is you do know?
And, as for your assertion of undocumented people cheating the system.
While I absolutely respect your right to express your views, I wonder how
you reconcile working in a field in which many do view their work as that of
supporting adults' learning, (without making judgement about individuals'
circumstances as such) with views that you have expressed that are clearly
and broadly anti-immigrant when it comes to people's immigration status.
I know you've spoken about the law, but I wonder if you've considered the
circumstances under which people are compelled to come to a country which
doesn't welcome them and in which they work very very hard in very very
difficult jobs. Are there really viable choices here? I don't want to
launch a pro/anti immigrant screed here, but would very much like to ask you
and others on this list to begin to think carefully and try to articulate
reasoned notions around our roles as educators, advocates (hence our
presence on this list) and community members.
Janet Isserlis
Two concerns from an adult education professional who is interested in
workers? rights and immigration issues:
First, what is the evidence that Jane Hugo's claim is valid: "Adult
educators know that they
must find ways to engage these potential students [who are on waiting lists]
in meaningful
learning activities as soon as possible or risk losing them."
I am an adult educator and I know no such thing.
Second, does anyone know what portion of adult students who are already
enrolled in
our programs are illegal aliens who have cheated the system to gain entrance
to our
country, and hence into our classrooms?
Kearney Lykins
----- Original Message ----
From: "aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org"
<aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org>
To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 12:00:03 PM
Subject: AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 10
Send AAACE-NLA mailing list submissions to
aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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You can reach the person managing the list at
aaace-nla-owner at lists.literacytent.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of AAACE-NLA digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Waiting List Reduction Resources Available from ProLiteracy
(jhugo)
2. Report released by Southern Poverty Law Center (Lynda Terrill)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 16:59:24 -0500
From: jhugo <jhugo at proliteracy.org>
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Waiting List Reduction Resources Available from
ProLiteracy
To: 'National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE'
<aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org>
Message-ID:
<221E918332E818488687199E5CBD74CE0603913C at keats.proliteracy.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
According to recent surveys, thousands of potential adult basic literacy and
English-language students across the country wait each month to start
learning. Adult educators know that they must find ways to engage these
potential students in meaningful learning activities as soon as possible or
risk losing them.
A resource that addresses how to reduce waiting lists is now available free,
online from ProLiteracy America: Promising Practices: Reducing Waiting Lists
in Adult Education and Literacy Programs (73-pages, pdf format).
ProLiteracy worked with twenty-three adult education and literacy programs
to identify promising practices that help reduce student waiting lists. In
addition to the booklet, two videos (require high speed Internet connection)
and the resources referred to in the booklet are available at
www.proliteracy.org/resources.asp <http://www.proliteracy.org/resources.asp>
<http://www.proliteracy.org/resources.asp>
<http://www.proliteracy.org/resources.asp>.
This project was made possible through the generous support of the Dollar
General Literacy Foundation.
For more information, contact Michele Diecuch at info at proliteracy.org.
Jane M. Hugo
Director of Special Projects
ProLiteracy America
1320 Jamesville Ave.
Syracuse, NY 13210
Phone: 315-422-9121, Ext. 318
Fax: 315-422-6369
Email:jhugo at proliteracy.org
www.proliteracy.org <http://www.proliteracy.org>
<http://www.proliteracy.org>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 09:12:21 -0500
From: "Lynda Terrill" <lrtschmed at hotmail.com>
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Report released by Southern Poverty Law Center
To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
Message-ID: <BAY135-F373F1A0C080BC0C25D0AEB1730 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Dear colleagues,
On March 12, the Southern Poverty Law Center
(http://www.splcenter.org/index.jsp ) announced a new report, Close to
Slavery: Guestworker Programs in the United States
(http://www.splcenter.org/news/item.jsp?aid=247). The report can be
downloaded in pdf format at
http://www.splcenter.org/pdf/static/SPLCguestworker.pdf . This report may be
of interest to those involved with workers? rights and immigration issues.
Lynda Terrill
lrtschmed at msn.com
_________________________________________________________________
Play Flexicon: the crossword game that feeds your brain. PLAY now for FREE.
http://zone.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmtagline
------------------------------
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End of AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 10
*****************************************
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 09:55:01 -0400
From: "Salyer, Michael \(DCE\)" <Michael.Salyer at dce.virginia.gov>
Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 10 Waiting
List Reduction
To: "National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE"
<aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org>
Message-ID:
<45B7EC643773CA4CADFCA4D9E16B05D40180E4C2 at MAIL.dce.state.va.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Pro Literacy does a great job and should be commended for its work.
My only concern is the redirection of funds to address a growing
population. Illegal immigrants not only put a strain on the public
school system but on our ABE volunteers and programs as well. As an
adult educator in the correctional education system, we struggle for
funding to provide services for our legal citizens that committed
crimes. It seems almost criminal to me, that we would take funds from
those already stressed budgets to provide an education for non English
speaking people who not only broke the law by coming here, but then did
not respect the laws of the communities they live in. We need a better
understanding of the people we are expected to serve. They are creating
an unprecedented strain on our schools, volunteers, our communities and
of course our tax system. Giving them privileges that we deny our own
native citizens seems like a poor answer. Taxing me and increasing my
health care payments to subsidize the illegal worker industry is not a
viable answer in my opinion.
We are in a partnership with the Mexican government to provide
educational services for inmates that are here illegally and are to be
deported to their home country upon release. They pay us to teach them
in Spanish instead of English. If they can do that then why can't the
Mexican government pony up money for the millions of illegal immigrants
in this country to offset their drag on our communities? Sending them
back home would be my choice but maybe more literate than when they
arrived so when they come back they can better participate in the
American Dream. Just a thought.
Michael W. Salyer
________________________________
From: aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org
[mailto:aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org] On Behalf Of Kearney
Lykins
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 5:30 PM
To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46,Issue 10 Waiting List
Reduction
Two concerns from an adult education professional who is interested in
workers' rights and immigration issues:
First, what is the evidence that Jane Hugo's claim is valid: "Adult
educators know that they
must find ways to engage these potential students [who are on waiting
lists] in meaningful
learning activities as soon as possible or risk losing them."
I am an adult educator and I know no such thing.
Second, does anyone know what portion of adult students who are
already enrolled in
our programs are illegal aliens who have cheated the system to gain
entrance to our
country, and hence into our classrooms?
Kearney Lykins
----- Original Message ----
From: "aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org"
<aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org>
To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 12:00:03 PM
Subject: AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 10
Send AAACE-NLA mailing list submissions to
aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
aaace-nla-owner at lists.literacytent.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of AAACE-NLA digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Waiting List Reduction Resources Available from ProLiteracy
(jhugo)
2. Report released by Southern Poverty Law Center (Lynda Terrill)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 16:59:24 -0500
From: jhugo <jhugo at proliteracy.org>
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Waiting List Reduction Resources Available from
ProLiteracy
To: 'National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE'
<aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org>
Message-ID:
<221E918332E818488687199E5CBD74CE0603913C at keats.proliteracy.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
According to recent surveys, thousands of potential adult basic literacy
and
English-language students across the country wait each month to start
learning. Adult educators know that they must find ways to engage these
potential students in meaningful learning activities as soon as possible
or
risk losing them.
A resource that addresses how to reduce waiting lists is now available
free,
online from ProLiteracy America: Promising Practices: Reducing Waiting
Lists
in Adult Education and Literacy Programs (73-pages, pdf format).
ProLiteracy worked with twenty-three adult education and literacy
programs
to identify promising practices that help reduce student waiting lists.
In
addition to the booklet, two videos (require high speed Internet
connection)
and the resources referred to in the booklet are available at
www.proliteracy.org/resources.asp <http://www.proliteracy.org/resources.asp>
<http://www.proliteracy.org/resources.asp>.
This project was made possible through the generous support of the
Dollar
General Literacy Foundation.
For more information, contact Michele Diecuch at info at proliteracy.org.
Jane M. Hugo
Director of Special Projects
ProLiteracy America
1320 Jamesville Ave.
Syracuse, NY 13210
Phone: 315-422-9121, Ext. 318
Fax: 315-422-6369
Email:jhugo at proliteracy.org
www.proliteracy.org <http://www.proliteracy.org>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 09:12:21 -0500
From: "Lynda Terrill" <lrtschmed at hotmail.com>
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Report released by Southern Poverty Law Center
To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
Message-ID: <BAY135-F373F1A0C080BC0C25D0AEB1730 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Dear colleagues,
On March 12, the Southern Poverty Law Center
(http://www.splcenter.org/index.jsp ) announced a new report, Close to
Slavery: Guestworker Programs in the United States
(http://www.splcenter.org/news/item.jsp?aid=247). The report can be
downloaded in pdf format at
http://www.splcenter.org/pdf/static/SPLCguestworker.pdf . This report
may be
of interest to those involved with workers' rights and immigration
issues.
Lynda Terrill
lrtschmed at msn.com
_________________________________________________________________
Play Flexicon: the crossword game that feeds your brain. PLAY now for
FREE.
http://zone.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmtagline
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
AAACE-NLA mailing list
AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
End of AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 46, Issue 10
*****************************************
________________________________
Get your own web address.
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49678/*http:/smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains
/?p=BESTDEAL>
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
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