[AAACE-NLA] AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 34, Issue 11
Patricia C. Vanderloo
pvanderl at netdoor.com
Fri Mar 3 16:09:08 EST 2006
Re: GED diploma graduates and achievment; and need for data (Pat Vanderloo)
David,
Where is your data coming from that led you to say that there is a small
number of GED diploma graduates who succeed in post-secondary education? If
the population of interest marginally passed the GED, they may have
difficulty achieving in post-secondary education. If the population of
interest has a low socio-economic level they may not succeed in
post-secondary education but that may be contextual or for non-cognitive
reasons. They may just not have a good support network or can't make tuition
payments or get a ride to class or obtian child care. The GED is a valid
academic certificate according to the research I undertook in comparing
traditional diploma students with GED diploma students in the community
colleges. There was no difference overall in achievement between the groups.
Hal, Re: the need for data. I start with the assumption that education is
big business. It's certainly big business from K-12 and in higher education
and from the discussion of 3-4 year olds we saw here with Heckman, it will
grow bigger there. Yes, business and industry are bigger providers of adult
education than "adult educators" but it seems to me that we will not be in
the "big business" of educating adults until we can demonstrate in numbers
that we are doing our job. Why should government funding for AE increase
when we are not pressuring loud and long (lobbying) for more than level
funding or merely make note of it and do not have students demonstrating the
lack of social justice in funding? Do we have a right to expect support and
funding without data? It might be said that only fools and saints give money
away seeing results.
Pat Vanderloo
----- Original Message -----
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Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 12:32 PM
Subject: AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 34, Issue 11
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: FW: [aaace-nla] Heckman, Adult Education and Changing
> the end point of adult education (Karen Limkemann)
> 2. What is purpose of AELS? (tsticht at znet.com)
> 3. Re: AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 34, Issue 10 (Fay, Mary Jayne)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:38:10 -0800 (PST)
> From: Karen Limkemann <trlakaren at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] FW: [aaace-nla] Heckman, Adult Education and
> Changing the end point of adult education
> To: National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE
> <aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org>
> Message-ID: <20060303163810.89027.qmail at web36514.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> David,
>
> I agree but just exactly what do we do with those who
> "fail to benfit from adult ed". Just where do we
> refer them?
>
> Karen Limkemann
> Ft. Wayne, IN
>
> --- David Rosen <DJRosen at theworld.com> wrote:
>
> > Hal, and others,
> >
> > It is time to change the end point of adult
> > education from "earning a
> > GED" or adult diploma, to preparation (for regular,
> > not
> > developmental) college courses.
> >
> > This needs to be reflected in federal and state
> > legislation. The GED
> > and adult diploma, as they are, are fine for some
> > purposes -- for
> > those who want recognition of high school
> > equivalency, or need a
> > diploma or certificate to keep their jobs. However,
> > they do not
> > necessarily stand for "preparedness for higher
> > education." There is
> > a gap between the end point of the adult ed system
> > and readiness to
> > do college-level work. We must address that gap in
> > our programs, but
> > also formally, in legislation and regulation.
> >
> > This is needed because adult education students
> > deserve the
> > opportunity to improve their earning opportunities,
> > to have new and
> > better jobs and careers, and to pursue higher
> > education. That
> > opportunity may be there now, but judging by the
> > small numbers of GED
> > and adult diploma holders who actually succeed in
> > post-secondary
> > education, and the larger numbers of students who
> > have this as a
> > goal, one must conclude that it is limited, that our
> > adult education
> > system needs to do more to make this a real
> > opportunity, to move
> > beyond college entry as a goal, to make the program
> > goal -- for those
> > who want to go to college -- preparation for
> > college success.
> >
> > The difference is not subtle and requires, for most
> > adult learners,
> > substantially more time in an adult education
> > program, and the
> > mastery of academic reading and writing, algebra,
> > basic science, and
> > college-level learning to learn skills. Programs
> > will need
> > additional resources to pay for providing these.
> > Adult learners will
> > need to adjust to much more time in a college
> > preparation program
> > before college.
> >
> >
> > David J. Rosen
> > Adult Literacy Advocate
> > DJRosen at theworld.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mar 3, 2006, at 8:35 AM, Hal Beder wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Add to the economic discussion the fact that the
> > economic returns of
> > > earning a GED are somewhat between having
> > traditional high school
> > > certification and having no certification. This
> > is well established
> > > by Heckman's research as well as studies by
> > Murnane, Tyler and
> > > others. Moreover, for GED-only graduates earnings
> > are flat over
> > > time. At retirement they earn pretty much what
> > they started
> > > at. However, just a little bit of post secondary
> > education makes a
> > > big difference in earnings and earnings
> > trajectory. To me this means
> > > that in today's economy we can no longer think of
> > success at adult
> > > literacy [as measured by earning the GED] as an
> > end point. We must
> > > think of adult literacy as a beginning and do much
> > more to help move
> > > those who are successful in adult literacy
> > education into post
> > > secondary education. Otherwise we are simply
> > preparing folks to toil
> > > among the working poor.
> > >
> > > Yes, this is about Democracy [note the capital D].
> > What has happened
> > > to our public discourse about Democracy? In the
> > global sense it
> > > seems to me that we have reduced it to a
> > structural equation; if a
> > > nation votes, it's a democracy. In the US,
> > democracy has become
> > > equated with economic rationality. It's a
> > democracy to the extent
> > > that income is maximized for those who have power
> > [I include the
> > > middle class in this group]. Hence raising taxes
> > to redistribute
> > > income to the needy is anathema. Even liberal
> > Democrat governors
> > > can't pull it off. If you define a democracy as a
> > society where the
> > > people get what they want, and if you agree that
> > we are a democracy
> > > under this definition, then if there is a problem
> > it lies with those
> > > who constitute the majority of voters in this
> > country.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > At 03:31 PM 3/2/2006, you wrote:
> > >> I agree completely. What I think I've learned is
> > that, when we talk
> > >> about what helps "the economy" or whether the
> > economy is working, we
> > >> have to ask, "working for whom?" "The economy
> > encompasses (and
> > >> blurs)
> > >> everyone, rich, middle and poor. We can, at
> > least up to a point,
> > >> have a
> > >> well-functioning economy and yet declining wages
> > and benefits for the
> > >> poorest income levels. It may be working for the
> > wealthy, and not
> > >> for
> > >> the poor, to be blunt about it. Just calling it
> > "the economy"
> > >> completely obscures this.
> > >>
> > >> Andy Sum had an interesting study a few years
> > back about the
> > >> declining
> > >> return in the form of wages to lower-income
> > workers, of their own
> > >> productivity gains. It was wonderfully stark.
> > (This was picked
> > >> up by
> > >> columnist Bob Herbert and widely publicized at
> > the time in the
> > >> newspapers. But now, I hear little about it).
> > In other words,
> > >> you can
> > >> work harder and harder, and still earn less and
> > less money as much of
> > >> what would be your earnings, end up flowing
> > upward to corporate
> > >> profits
> > >> and those in the highest income levels. I do
> > worry sometimes that
> > >> we in
> > >> the ABE field, too can work harder and harder to
> > increase literacy
> > >> and
> > >> educational levels for the working poor, and
> > unless we have some
> > >> kind of
> > >> income redistribution, tax fairness, and/or
> > mandatory sharing of
> > >> profits
> > >> or productivity gains, folks will still become
> > poorer and poorer, and
> > >> income inequalities will just continue to grow.
> > >>
> > >> And in addition, as we well know, assets as well
> > as income are highly
> > >> relevant here. If you are low income, it's
> > awfully hard to amass the
> > >> capital to ever get ahead, in terms of education,
> > higher
> > >> education, home
> > >> ownership, investments, etc.--all the things that
> > help lead to
> > >> increasing income, once you have enough to go
> > after it. And so--the
> > >> rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
> > >>
> > >> A dismal science, indeed.
> > >>
> > >> Laurie Sheridan
> > >>
> > >>>>> ralf at selkie.ca 03/02 1:15 PM >>>
> > >> Thanks for your thoughts, Hal.
> > >>
> >
> === message truncated ===
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 10:10:55 -0800
> From: tsticht at znet.com
> Subject: [AAACE-NLA] What is purpose of AELS?
> To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
> Message-ID: <1141409455.440886af1190f at webmail.znet.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Aaace-nla colleagues: Some time ago I posted a message about how the Adult
> Education and Literacy System (AELS) seems to be being transformed more
and
> more from an adult education system with the purpose of helping adults
meet
> a wide variety of educational needs, to a second-chance K-12 system in
> which the goal is to have adults learn what is taught in the K-12 system
to
> move from secondary to post-secondary, college education. The recent posts
> by David Rosen and Hal Beder arguing for moving more adult learners from
> the AELS into post-secondary education seems to be consistent with this
> trend. To me this raises the important question of what services the AELS
> should be offering. I have always considered it an opportunity for the
> hardest to reach, most underserved adults, with the greatest need for
adult
> literacy education. Of course, the need for ESL (ESOL) has been and
> continues to be an important component of the AELS, too. But I am troubled
> by the move toward having the AELS focus attention away from the most
> difficult to reach and teach and to move to a college-prepatory program. I
> would like to know what others think. Tom Sticht
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 13:28:25 -0500
> From: "Fay, Mary Jayne" <mjfay at doe.mass.edu>
> Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 34, Issue 10
> To: "'aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org'"
> <aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org>
> Message-ID: <DE4FCD18CD7FD4118C8C00D0B774DDA4143250AF at doe.mass.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> David:
>
> I agree that more needs to be done to bridge the gap between the skills
> required to pass the GED and those required for college admissions. Based
> on my experiences with community colleges' developmental education
programs
> and overseeing the licensure of private occupational schools, I see
several
> reasons to bridge the gap.
>
> I've noted that some four-year colleges will not accept students who
possess
> a GED unless the student can demonstrate a positive track record of
> college-level course work. I've also noted that colleges that do admit
GED
> students typically provide a higher number of "pre-college" courses (also
> known as "developmental" courses), which are designed to improve academic
> skills. However, I've noted several problems with these pre-college
> courses. Students typically take these courses in conjunction with
> "regular" academic courses, in which they do poorly because the don't have
> the requisite academic skills--which is why they are in the pre-college
> courses to begin with! Further, the pre-college courses don't count
toward
> graduation requirements, which means that the student may need to attend
one
> or two additional semesters in order to complete their degree
requirements.
> Finally, colleges charge college-level tuition prices for these courses,
for
> which students often obtain student loans to attend, which may mean that
> they need more loan money to attend school longer because of the
pre-college
> courses.
>
> I've also noted that students who don't place into college-level courses,
or
> who don't feel that they are "college material" (whether because of low
> self-esteem or lack of confidence in their academic skills) often opt to
> attend private vocational schools. Unfortunately, these schools are often
> businesses posing as educational institutions and many have a poor track
> record of adequately preparing students for future employment. Further,
> many students do not realize that coursework taken in these
> certificate-granting institutions is not transferable. This latter issue
> can be particularly disheartening to students who have spent several
months
> completing a program of study, but now want to transfer to a
degree-granting
> institution, only to find that those months of work won't count.
>
> Not bridging the gap, as the above examples suggest, may condemn GED
> students to paying more for the same level of education and may place GED
> students, and by extension their families, in debt for a longer period of
> time as a result. The alternative may be that they won't pursue higher
> education and as a result are condemned to lower incomes levels.
>
> Mary Jayne Fay
> Coordinator of Adult Basic Education Teacher Licensure and Proprietary
> Schools
> Massachusetts Department of Education
> 350 Main Street
> Malden, MA 02148
> 781-338-6048
> 781-338-6759
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org
> [mailto:aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org]On Behalf Of
> aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org
> Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 12:00 PM
> To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
> Subject: AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 34, Issue 10
>
>
> Send AAACE-NLA mailing list submissions to
> aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of AAACE-NLA digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: FW: [aaace-nla] Heckman, Adult Education and Changing
> the end point of adult education (David Rosen)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:36:57 -0500
> From: David Rosen <DJRosen at theworld.com>
> Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] FW: [aaace-nla] Heckman, Adult Education and
> Changing the end point of adult education
> To: National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE
> <aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org>
> Message-ID: <8DF8B27B-6403-4613-9ACE-35121B060D9F at theworld.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> Hal, and others,
>
> It is time to change the end point of adult education from "earning a
> GED" or adult diploma, to preparation (for regular, not
> developmental) college courses.
>
> This needs to be reflected in federal and state legislation. The GED
> and adult diploma, as they are, are fine for some purposes -- for
> those who want recognition of high school equivalency, or need a
> diploma or certificate to keep their jobs. However, they do not
> necessarily stand for "preparedness for higher education." There is
> a gap between the end point of the adult ed system and readiness to
> do college-level work. We must address that gap in our programs, but
> also formally, in legislation and regulation.
>
> This is needed because adult education students deserve the
> opportunity to improve their earning opportunities, to have new and
> better jobs and careers, and to pursue higher education. That
> opportunity may be there now, but judging by the small numbers of GED
> and adult diploma holders who actually succeed in post-secondary
> education, and the larger numbers of students who have this as a
> goal, one must conclude that it is limited, that our adult education
> system needs to do more to make this a real opportunity, to move
> beyond college entry as a goal, to make the program goal -- for those
> who want to go to college -- preparation for college success.
>
> The difference is not subtle and requires, for most adult learners,
> substantially more time in an adult education program, and the
> mastery of academic reading and writing, algebra, basic science, and
> college-level learning to learn skills. Programs will need
> additional resources to pay for providing these. Adult learners will
> need to adjust to much more time in a college preparation program
> before college.
>
>
> David J. Rosen
> Adult Literacy Advocate
> DJRosen at theworld.com
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 3, 2006, at 8:35 AM, Hal Beder wrote:
>
> >
> > Add to the economic discussion the fact that the economic returns of
> > earning a GED are somewhat between having traditional high school
> > certification and having no certification. This is well established
> > by Heckman's research as well as studies by Murnane, Tyler and
> > others. Moreover, for GED-only graduates earnings are flat over
> > time. At retirement they earn pretty much what they started
> > at. However, just a little bit of post secondary education makes a
> > big difference in earnings and earnings trajectory. To me this means
> > that in today's economy we can no longer think of success at adult
> > literacy [as measured by earning the GED] as an end point. We must
> > think of adult literacy as a beginning and do much more to help move
> > those who are successful in adult literacy education into post
> > secondary education. Otherwise we are simply preparing folks to toil
> > among the working poor.
> >
> > Yes, this is about Democracy [note the capital D]. What has happened
> > to our public discourse about Democracy? In the global sense it
> > seems to me that we have reduced it to a structural equation; if a
> > nation votes, it's a democracy. In the US, democracy has become
> > equated with economic rationality. It's a democracy to the extent
> > that income is maximized for those who have power [I include the
> > middle class in this group]. Hence raising taxes to redistribute
> > income to the needy is anathema. Even liberal Democrat governors
> > can't pull it off. If you define a democracy as a society where the
> > people get what they want, and if you agree that we are a democracy
> > under this definition, then if there is a problem it lies with those
> > who constitute the majority of voters in this country.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > At 03:31 PM 3/2/2006, you wrote:
> >> I agree completely. What I think I've learned is that, when we talk
> >> about what helps "the economy" or whether the economy is working, we
> >> have to ask, "working for whom?" "The economy encompasses (and
> >> blurs)
> >> everyone, rich, middle and poor. We can, at least up to a point,
> >> have a
> >> well-functioning economy and yet declining wages and benefits for the
> >> poorest income levels. It may be working for the wealthy, and not
> >> for
> >> the poor, to be blunt about it. Just calling it "the economy"
> >> completely obscures this.
> >>
> >> Andy Sum had an interesting study a few years back about the
> >> declining
> >> return in the form of wages to lower-income workers, of their own
> >> productivity gains. It was wonderfully stark. (This was picked
> >> up by
> >> columnist Bob Herbert and widely publicized at the time in the
> >> newspapers. But now, I hear little about it). In other words,
> >> you can
> >> work harder and harder, and still earn less and less money as much of
> >> what would be your earnings, end up flowing upward to corporate
> >> profits
> >> and those in the highest income levels. I do worry sometimes that
> >> we in
> >> the ABE field, too can work harder and harder to increase literacy
> >> and
> >> educational levels for the working poor, and unless we have some
> >> kind of
> >> income redistribution, tax fairness, and/or mandatory sharing of
> >> profits
> >> or productivity gains, folks will still become poorer and poorer, and
> >> income inequalities will just continue to grow.
> >>
> >> And in addition, as we well know, assets as well as income are highly
> >> relevant here. If you are low income, it's awfully hard to amass the
> >> capital to ever get ahead, in terms of education, higher
> >> education, home
> >> ownership, investments, etc.--all the things that help lead to
> >> increasing income, once you have enough to go after it. And so--the
> >> rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
> >>
> >> A dismal science, indeed.
> >>
> >> Laurie Sheridan
> >>
> >>>>> ralf at selkie.ca 03/02 1:15 PM >>>
> >> Thanks for your thoughts, Hal.
> >>
> >> Ralf
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thursday, Mar 2, 2006, at 15:56 Europe/London, Hal Beder wrote:
> >>
> >>> I think the individual returns to adult literacy are well
> >>> documented. A report by Andy Sum using NALS data does this well:
> >>> http://nces.ed.gov/pubsearch/pubsinfo.asp?pubid=1999470
> >>> However, the returns to the general economy are not well documented
> >>> at all. To demonstrate that adult literacy is a public good, you
> >>> would have to be able to make this second argument and that in my
> >>> view is problematic. In NJ about 1/2 the work force works in the
> >>> sector that requires no skills or rudimentary on the job training
> >> and
> >>> that is where most low literates end up. There are jobs;
> >> unemployment
> >>> in this sector is about 4.9%. These folks serve the folks that have
> >>> skills and their lack of skills is the justification for low pay. ..
> >>> so I can afford to have my lawn cut and I can buy underwear 3 for 5$
> >>> at Target. Make them literate and you have to pay them more. So
> >>> what if they are doomed to the working poor? Besides, from a
> >>> economic perspective we can't do much about the situation because it
> >>> is the result of a global economy over which we have no control. So
> >>> from a economic perspective, everything is fine. Low literates work
> >>> in a necessary sector of the economy and that sector is functioning
> >>> well. Bottom line.... An economic argument that focuses of returns
> >>> to the greater economy supports the status quo. That is why, in my
> >>> opinion, we must argue from a social justice perspective and we must
> >>> do so convincingly. No wonder they call economics the dismal
> >> science
> >>> [unless of course you are a corporate CEO]
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> At 10:13 AM 3/2/2006, you wrote:
> >>>> Hi Hal et al.,
> >>>>
> >>>> I understand that argument. But surely we'd need to be able to
> >>>> demonstrate that there is "immediate" return to adult literacy.
> >> This
> >>>> would depend on the starting level of the learner, the job market,
> >>>> their income etc.-- a set of internal factors as well as the direct
> >>
> >>>> and
> >>>> indirect returns. I'm pretty uncomfortable with this line of
> >> argument
> >>>> as it would tend to devalue ABE that didn't lead to employment.
> >>>>
> >>>> More subtly it seems to me that you also run into issues of whether
> >>>> education is a public or private good, and the rather nasty
> >>>> possibility
> >>>> that children's education is a public good and adult education a
> >>>> private good, which once more changes the grounds for discussion.
> >>>>
> >>>> Anyway, my point was that I was genuinely curious to know if the
> >>>> returns to adult education had ever been well investigated. I've
> >> never
> >>>> found anything, but suggestions would be welcome!
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>>
> >>>> Ralf
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thursday, Mar 2, 2006, at 13:00 Europe/London, Hal Beder wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We really don't need data. The economic benefits to education do
> >> not
> >>>>> occur until the educated join the work force. For a five year
> >> old,
> >>>>> this would be 13-15 years. But for adults who are already
> >> employed,
> >>>>> or ready to be employed, we reap the benefits immediately because
> >>>>> they are already part of the workforce.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> At 07:05 PM 3/1/2006, you wrote:
> >>>>>> A brief message from Ralf St. Clair.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: Ralf St.Clair [mailto:ralf at selkie.ca]
> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 4:15 PM
> >>>>>> To: National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] [aaace-nla] Heckman and Adult Education
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi Hal (et al),
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Do we have data on this?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ralf
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Wednesday, Mar 1, 2006, at 20:58 Europe/London, Hal Beder
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If you educate an adult, the payoff is immediate. For early
> >>>>>>> childhood, it takes 15-20 years for an investment to accrue.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> AAACE-NLA mailing list: AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
> >>>>>> http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
> >>>>>> LiteracyTent: web hosting, news, community and goodies for
> >> literacy
> >>>>>> http://literacytent.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Rutgers University
> >>>>> Graduate School of Education
> >>>>> 10 seminary Pl.
> >>>>> New Brunswick, NJ 08901
> >>>>> 732-932-7496 ext. 8213
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> AAACE-NLA mailing list: AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
> >>>>> http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
> >>>>> LiteracyTent: web hosting, news, community and goodies for
> >> literacy
> >>>>> http://literacytent.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> AAACE-NLA mailing list: AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
> >>>> http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
> >>>> LiteracyTent: web hosting, news, community and goodies for literacy
> >>>> http://literacytent.org
> >>>
> >>> Rutgers University
> >>> Graduate School of Education
> >>> 10 seminary Pl.
> >>> New Brunswick, NJ 08901
> >>> 732-932-7496 ext. 8213
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> AAACE-NLA mailing list: AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
> >>> http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
> >>> LiteracyTent: web hosting, news, community and goodies for literacy
> >>> http://literacytent.org
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> AAACE-NLA mailing list: AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
> >> http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
> >> LiteracyTent: web hosting, news, community and goodies for literacy
> >> http://literacytent.org
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> AAACE-NLA mailing list: AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
> >> http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
> >> LiteracyTent: web hosting, news, community and goodies for literacy
> >> http://literacytent.org
> >
> > Rutgers University
> > Graduate School of Education
> > 10 seminary Pl.
> > New Brunswick, NJ 08901
> > 732-932-7496 ext. 8213
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > AAACE-NLA mailing list: AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
> > http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
> > LiteracyTent: web hosting, news, community and goodies for literacy
> > http://literacytent.org
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> AAACE-NLA mailing list
> AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
> http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
>
>
> End of AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 34, Issue 10
> *****************************************
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> AAACE-NLA mailing list
> AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
> http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
>
>
> End of AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 34, Issue 11
> *****************************************
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