[AAACE-NLA] AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 34, Issue 6
Toni-Ann Mills
tamill2 at uky.edu
Fri Mar 3 10:21:37 EST 2006
Hi
A couple issues from the point of view of an economic argument come from
the Safety, medical, retention, and ability to quickly respond to markets
issues.
* Workers with low level literacy skills are more vulnerable to safety
accidents and the more complex the work environment, the more likely this
is to have serious consequences.
* People will low levels of literacy skills are often unable to follow
needed medical advice which includes preventative measures as well as
taking prescribed medicines - there can be an economic loss through
extended work absences and poor performance due to decreased health etc.
* Although, through their poor literacy levels they remain eligible for
only the unskilled sector, they, like anyone else become bored with
repetitive work and tend to drift as much as the job market allows them -
this is a considerably large cost to the employer in finding and training
(even minimal training that involves basic safety and rights) new employers
more often than gives an adequate return on investment.
* There is also some argument within industries that low levels of
literacy impede training to a high skill level and there are likely to be
more quality issues with the work produced - a big concern for industries
who take their quality accreditations seriously ( this is one great
argument for getting employers to buy into literacy programs)
* Industries that rely heavily on an unskilled workforce who also have
low levels of literacy cannot respond as quickly to market changes (and
they are rapid these days) as those who might have an unskilled but
literate workforce.
By all means let us pursue this issue from an ethical stance - it should be
the only stance we need - I think it falls under the following statement
and the rest of that document.
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union,
establish Justice, insure
<http://www.usconstitution.net/glossary.html#DOMTRAN>domestic Tranquility,
provide for the common
<http://www.usconstitution.net/constmiss.html>defence, promote the general
<http://www.usconstitution.net/glossary.html#WELFARE>Welfare, and secure
the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our
<http://www.usconstitution.net/glossary.html#POSTERITY>Posterity, do
<http://www.usconstitution.net/glossary.html#ORDAIN>ordain and establish
this Constitution for the United States of America.
Cheers
Toni-Ann
At 12:00 PM 3/2/2006, you wrote:
>Send AAACE-NLA mailing list submissions to
> aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
>
>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> aaace-nla-request at lists.literacytent.org
>
>You can reach the person managing the list at
> aaace-nla-owner at lists.literacytent.org
>
>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>than "Re: Contents of AAACE-NLA digest..."
>
>
>Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: FW: [aaace-nla] Heckman and Adult Education (Ralf St.Clair)
> 2. Re: [aaace-nla] Heckman and Adult Education (Catherine B. King)
> 3. Re: FW: [aaace-nla] Heckman and Adult Education
> (Catherine B. King)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 15:13:23 +0000
>From: Ralf St.Clair <ralf at selkie.ca>
>Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] FW: [aaace-nla] Heckman and Adult Education
>To: National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE
> <aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org>
>Message-ID: <171C9777-A9FF-11DA-BF99-000A95E20FC6 at selkie.ca>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
>Hi Hal et al.,
>
>I understand that argument. But surely we'd need to be able to
>demonstrate that there is "immediate" return to adult literacy. This
>would depend on the starting level of the learner, the job market,
>their income etc.-- a set of internal factors as well as the direct and
>indirect returns. I'm pretty uncomfortable with this line of argument
>as it would tend to devalue ABE that didn't lead to employment.
>
>More subtly it seems to me that you also run into issues of whether
>education is a public or private good, and the rather nasty possibility
>that children's education is a public good and adult education a
>private good, which once more changes the grounds for discussion.
>
>Anyway, my point was that I was genuinely curious to know if the
>returns to adult education had ever been well investigated. I've never
>found anything, but suggestions would be welcome!
>
>Thanks,
>
>Ralf
>
>
>On Thursday, Mar 2, 2006, at 13:00 Europe/London, Hal Beder wrote:
>
> >
> > We really don't need data. The economic benefits to education do not
> > occur until the educated join the work force. For a five year old,
> > this would be 13-15 years. But for adults who are already employed,
> > or ready to be employed, we reap the benefits immediately because
> > they are already part of the workforce.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > At 07:05 PM 3/1/2006, you wrote:
> >> A brief message from Ralf St. Clair.
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Ralf St.Clair [mailto:ralf at selkie.ca]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 4:15 PM
> >> To: National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE
> >> Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] [aaace-nla] Heckman and Adult Education
> >>
> >> Hi Hal (et al),
> >>
> >> Do we have data on this?
> >>
> >> Ralf
> >>
> >> On Wednesday, Mar 1, 2006, at 20:58 Europe/London, Hal Beder wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> If you educate an adult, the payoff is immediate. For early
> >>> childhood, it takes 15-20 years for an investment to accrue.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> AAACE-NLA mailing list: AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
> >> http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
> >> LiteracyTent: web hosting, news, community and goodies for literacy
> >> http://literacytent.org
> >
> > Rutgers University
> > Graduate School of Education
> > 10 seminary Pl.
> > New Brunswick, NJ 08901
> > 732-932-7496 ext. 8213
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > AAACE-NLA mailing list: AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
> > http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
> > LiteracyTent: web hosting, news, community and goodies for literacy
> > http://literacytent.org
> >
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:17:45 -0600
>From: "Catherine B. King" <cb.king at verizon.net>
>Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] [aaace-nla] Heckman and Adult Education
>To: "National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE"
> <aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org>
>Message-ID: <003801c63e0c$76cf3ae0$35d1193f at ReflectionPool>
>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
> reply-type=original
>
>Hello George, et al:
>
>I think most of us hold that Adult Education Systems are legitimate in their
>focus on the quality of life for adults, regardless of whether our adults
>have children or influence children's education in some way.
>
>However, "social regeneration" in familial order--both good and bad--is a
>well-known fact that has been researched in many different ways and under
>many different social venues, e.g., the achievement gap between "White" and
>African American students in high schools (Orfield, 2002 & 2005; & Neito,
>2005; Friere, etc.).
>
>But to approach the problems associated with social regeneration from the
>point of view of the K-12 classroom ALONE is to social policy--as
>tying-one-hand-behind-our backs is to boxing? A two-pronged approach (at
>least) would be much more appropriate to considerations of long-term remedy,
>i.e., K-12 AND the family--and the later through redoubling the support of
>our Adult Education programs.
>
>Of course, we need to assume that remedy, in fact, is what is wanted by
>those who set policy (another liberal fallacy?--the assumption of
>reasonableness?)
>
>But these are complex issues with individual nuance in every single case;
>however, as I suggested in an earlier note (and forgive me if this has been
>explored here already), it seems to me that there is an increasingly obvious
>missing policy connection between (1) the apparent educational-policy thrust
>of No Child Left Behind and Individuals with Disabilities Acts and (2) the
>known but still-studied facts of social regeneration.
>
>It takes no genius to understand how educating (and training) adults in a
>family will affect the educational life of children. One need only
>understand that "family members communicate with one another" to understand
>how educational activities on the part of one affects the thinking of others
>in ways that cannot be enumerated or even fully explained by anyone--
>researchers or the adults themselves.
>
>The same "assumption of communications" (and the increased quality of those
>communications that comes with educating adults involved in the
>conversation) is what George Demetrion is referring to as the "thick" level
>of influence. The assumption can be applied to all adult-to-adult
>relationships in any culture.
>
>Such communication and influence is pervasive, sometimes remote; and as
>intergenerational, it defies longitudinal studies that do not focus on the
>pervasiveness of educational-political influence or of ethical-horizonal
>development of its participants ("if we cannot count it now, it doesn't
>count"?), though we CAN (and do) focus on the short-term development of
>communication skills. This speaks to a recent post that referred to the
>"immediate" results of adult education where K-12 takes years. But this
>distinction is more about the realities of human development than it is
>about getting research that gives us (positivist?) results and programs that
>are not "failing"?
>
>However, if such "communicative influence" weren't the case, and drawing an
>example from the worst-case-scenario, the Taliban would not be burning down
>their schools for fear of the socio-political-religious influence of
>"Western" education. Literacy, education, and the opening-of-minds is, and
>always has been, a serious "problem" for those who want to maintain either
>secular or religious power (Friere).
>
>My point is, however, that if "we" (U. S. Policy) really want to Leave No
>Child Behind (NCLB), we need go no farther than to connect-the-dots between
>(1) the present research in social regeneration to (2) Adult Education
>programs and their communications influence on the children in the family
>BEFORE they enter the classroom.
>
>Again, such dot-connecting does not negate the import of continued education
>for our adult citizens per se--it's not either/or but both/and.
>
>Finally, though I am always interested in new research, I'm sorry to say
>that I think, in the present political climate, the call for more research
>is a red herring--it sets the bar by positivist standards (as a political
>convenience), and is geared to buy-time, and to detract from what will go
>forward anyway, if the powers-that-be have it, after we "fail" again, which
>we will, if we run on the track that is prescribed for us. In this sense, we
>are like the horses in Animal Farm.
>
>In the short run, I think it important to call-up the de facto conflict
>between present educational policy (NCLB, etc.) and a diminishment of Adult
>Education Programs in th U.S. Under the implications of NCLB, etc., we
>should be redoubling our efforts in Adult Education and other programs
>rather than putting them on the "chopping block."
>
>But then those implications are based on the assumption that some fidelity
>exists between U. S. Educational Policy (and what the current Administration
>says), and what is in fact the motivational factors and agendas at work
>behind the scenes. I really don't think the powers-that-be share the same
>fundamental vision as most if not all educators in the U. S.
>
>Catherine King
>
>Orfield, G. (2002). "Policy and Equity: Lessons of a Third Century of
>Educational Reforms in the United States" in Fernando Reimers, ed. Unequal
>Schools, Unequal Chances: The Challenges of Equal Opportunity in the
>Americas, Cambridge: Harvard University Press.
>
>Orfield, G. (2005). The Resurgence of School Segregation. Educational
>Leadership, 60(4), 16-20.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "George demetrion" <gdemetrion at msn.com>
>To: <aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 2:41 PM
>Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] [aaace-nla] Heckman and Adult Education
>
>
> > Tom and others,
> >
> > In terms of impact, possible benefit has to be weighed in relationship to
> > investment. I don't know what the federal budget is for K-12, but I bet a
> > whole lot more than $500,000. From a federal perspective, even from the
> > current neoconservative perspective, the issue cannot be whether adult ed
> > is
> > worth it as a zero sum game. Rather, it's impact, both proximate and
> > distall, needs to be assessed in relation to the modest cost of keeping
> > the
> > program intact, or even increasing support somewhat in light both of its
> > positive value, and the potential negative impact of pulling the plug.
> >
> > There has been a fair amount of research on impact in the anthropological
> > ethnographic mode and some broad themes of positive, albeit modest impact
> > are reported almost across the board. There may be some romanticizing of
> > the data there, but the observe side of marginalizing the value of such
> > ethnographic work is, in my view, the bigger problem. What I would like
> > to
> > see at this stage is some solid synthesizing of the top 20-30 studies in
> > an
> > analogous manner to Beder's 1999 NCSALL Report on program impact based on
> > quantitative report. BTW, that won't be me taking this on as I have other
> > fish to fry.
> >
> > Of course, the broader issue of who's listening and who cares is another
> > matter of major proportions.
> >
> > This stated, there is a fair amount of decently created qualitative
> > research, which, combined with various quantitative studies, also of
> > various
> > quality, needs to be carefully sifted and articulated out into a solid
> > report, and written with some punch a la Jonathan Kozol. Such work would
> > tell us a great deal about the impact, proximate and distall--onto the
> > generations--of adult literacy education. Perhaps with the support of a
> > major funder, Proliteracy, NCSALL, NCAL, and the University of Georgia
> > combined with the top 5-7 adult literacy scholars could get together on
> > this
> > or some comparable project.
> >
> > No doubt, adult literacy as a field, is severely under-researched, though,
> > in addition to limited resources, this is due in no small part, to the
> > relative newness of the field. Nonetheless, as a field we have
> > substantial
> > intellectual and imaganitive power, but sometimes our boxes of perception
> > are so enclosed that we have difficulty perceiving reality outside of
> > them.
> >
> > George Demetrion
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > AAACE-NLA mailing list: AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
> > http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
> > LiteracyTent: web hosting, news, community and goodies for literacy
> > http://literacytent.org
> >
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:20:49 -0600
>From: "Catherine B. King" <cb.king at verizon.net>
>Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] FW: [aaace-nla] Heckman and Adult Education
>To: "National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE"
> <aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org>
>Message-ID: <003f01c63e0c$e4614f30$35d1193f at ReflectionPool>
>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
> reply-type=original
>
>A correction:
>
>I neglected to add my reference for S. Neito in my last note. Here is only
>one of her recent
>contributions to the literature on education:
>
>Nieto, S. M. (2005). Profoundly Multicultural Questions. Educational
>Leadership, 60(4), 6-10.
>
>Catherine King
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Hal Beder" <hbeder at rci.rutgers.edu>
>To: <david at collings.com>; "National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by
>AAACE" <aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org>
>Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 7:00 AM
>Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] FW: [aaace-nla] Heckman and Adult Education
>
>
> >
> > We really don't need data. The economic benefits to education do not
> > occur until the educated join the work force. For a five year old,
> > this would be 13-15 years. But for adults who are already employed,
> > or ready to be employed, we reap the benefits immediately because
> > they are already part of the workforce.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > At 07:05 PM 3/1/2006, you wrote:
> >>A brief message from Ralf St. Clair.
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Ralf St.Clair [mailto:ralf at selkie.ca]
> >>Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 4:15 PM
> >>To: National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE
> >>Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] [aaace-nla] Heckman and Adult Education
> >>
> >>Hi Hal (et al),
> >>
> >>Do we have data on this?
> >>
> >>Ralf
> >>
> >>On Wednesday, Mar 1, 2006, at 20:58 Europe/London, Hal Beder wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > If you educate an adult, the payoff is immediate. For early
> >> > childhood, it takes 15-20 years for an investment to accrue.
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>AAACE-NLA mailing list: AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
> >>http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
> >>LiteracyTent: web hosting, news, community and goodies for literacy
> >>http://literacytent.org
> >
> > Rutgers University
> > Graduate School of Education
> > 10 seminary Pl.
> > New Brunswick, NJ 08901
> > 732-932-7496 ext. 8213
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > AAACE-NLA mailing list: AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
> > http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
> > LiteracyTent: web hosting, news, community and goodies for literacy
> > http://literacytent.org
> >
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>AAACE-NLA mailing list
>AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
>http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
>
>
>End of AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 34, Issue 6
>****************************************
Toni-Ann Mills
CCLD Director - Adult Education
Phone (859) 257-6127
Fax (859) 323 3963
email: tamill2 at uky.edu
Seize the day
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.literacytent.org/pipermail/aaace-nla/attachments/20060303/c973a92c/attachment.html>
More information about the AAACE-NLA
mailing list