[AAACE-NLA] FW: [aaace-nla] Heckman and Adult Education

Thu Mar 2 13:42:00 EST 2006

Hello Hal:

Such thought is the result of seeing adult education (in a democracy?)
in purely economic terms--a form of telescoping, to be sure.

But this tendency towards telescopic reduction is why maintaining our
fuller understanding of adult education--or recovering its historical
connection to the political ground of ALL of us (democracy)--and
keeping it on the table-- is so important to the entire project.

To put it in terms of the economy-*alone* is to slip-one-by the entire
field of education, as well-meaning as it is.  This is what was on the
horizon when we first put "adult education" with the "workforce" in
our governmental programming and their conceptual schematics.

It's a slippery slope of subtle reductions where the tail quite naturally
follows the head, and where the head is a governing concept that goes
unquestioned.  This is excusable in some fields; but in education, it
has a scandalous air about it.

Catherine King

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Hal Beder" <hbeder at rci.rutgers.edu>
To: "National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE" 
<aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] FW: [aaace-nla] Heckman and Adult Education

>I think the individual returns to adult literacy are well
> documented.  A report by Andy Sum using NALS data does this well:
> http://nces.ed.gov/pubsearch/pubsinfo.asp?pubid=1999470
> However, the returns to the general economy are not well documented
> at all.  To demonstrate that adult literacy is a public good, you
> would have to be able to make this second argument and that in my
> view is problematic. In NJ about 1/2 the work force works in the
> sector that requires no skills or rudimentary on the job training and
> that is where most low literates end up. There are jobs; unemployment
> in this sector is about 4.9%.  These folks serve the folks that have
> skills and their lack of skills is the justification for low pay. ..
> so I can afford to have my lawn cut and I can buy underwear 3 for 5$
> at Target.  Make them literate and you have to pay them more.  So
> what if they are doomed to the working poor?  Besides, from a
> economic perspective we can't do much about the situation because it
> is the result of a global economy over which we have no control.  So
> from a economic perspective, everything is fine.  Low literates work
> in a necessary sector of the economy and that sector is functioning
> well.  Bottom line....  An economic argument that focuses of returns
> to the greater economy supports the status quo.  That is why, in my
> opinion, we must argue from a social justice perspective and we must
> do so convincingly.  No wonder they call economics the dismal science
> [unless of course you are a corporate CEO]
>
>
>
>
> At 10:13 AM 3/2/2006, you wrote:
>>Hi Hal et al.,
>>
>>I understand that argument. But surely we'd need to be able to
>>demonstrate that there is "immediate" return to adult literacy. This
>>would depend on the starting level of the learner, the job market,
>>their income etc.-- a set of internal factors as well as the direct and
>>indirect returns. I'm pretty uncomfortable with this line of argument
>>as it would tend to devalue ABE that didn't lead to employment.
>>
>>More subtly it seems to me that you also run into issues of whether
>>education is a public or private good, and the rather nasty possibility
>>that children's education is a public good and adult education a
>>private good, which once more changes the grounds for discussion.
>>
>>Anyway, my point was that I was genuinely curious to know if the
>>returns to adult education had ever been well investigated. I've never
>>found anything, but suggestions would be welcome!
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Ralf
>>
>>
>>On Thursday, Mar 2, 2006, at 13:00 Europe/London, Hal Beder wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > We really don't need data.  The economic benefits to education do not
>> > occur until the educated join the work force.  For a five year old,
>> > this would be 13-15 years.  But for adults who are already employed,
>> > or ready to be employed, we reap the benefits immediately because
>> > they are already part of the workforce.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > At 07:05 PM 3/1/2006, you wrote:
>> >> A brief message from Ralf St. Clair.
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Ralf St.Clair [mailto:ralf at selkie.ca]
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 4:15 PM
>> >> To: National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE
>> >> Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] [aaace-nla] Heckman and Adult Education
>> >>
>> >> Hi Hal (et al),
>> >>
>> >> Do we have data on this?
>> >>
>> >> Ralf
>> >>
>> >> On Wednesday, Mar 1, 2006, at 20:58 Europe/London, Hal Beder wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> If you educate an adult, the payoff is immediate.  For early
>> >>> childhood, it takes 15-20 years for an investment to accrue.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
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>> > Rutgers University
>> > Graduate School of Education
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>> >
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>
> Rutgers University
> Graduate School of Education
> 10 seminary Pl.
> New Brunswick, NJ 08901
> 732-932-7496 ext. 8213
>
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