No subject

anti-apartheid, Central America solidarity, and some community organizing 
work, and that kind of set up a framework for me to gather and organize 
information into knowledge and understanding that has been a strong 
influence on my literacy work. In 1991 and 1992 I traveled to El Salvador 
with teachers' delegations. We went to the countryside. We marched in a 
demonstration with many Salvadorans and saw our picture on the front page of 
the newspaper the next day and were the subjects of an editorial cartoon 
titled "Yankee Revoltosos (troublemakers) Go Home!" We saw the 
machine-gunned Bible and other effects of churchpeople murdered by the death 
squads. I met people whose children had been murdered.
Our government paid millions and millions of dollars and provided military 
training and "advisors" to the government that did that. Someone close to me 
arrived at work one morning in San Salvador and found the body of his 
friend--I won't give the gory details. We paid for that.

Why talk about that? What does it have to do with adult literacy, or 
censorship of the NIFL archives? Isn't it "unprofessional," or 
"inappropriate" or just irrelevant to bring that up here? Don't educators 
have a professional obligation not to be political? Don't we need consensus, 
not divisiveness? That easy willingness to define appropriate and 
professional to coincide with working within the status quo is disturbing to 
me, and when I hear someone talk about being "professional" meaning be 
polite it makes me want to behave as <unprofessionally> as possible. This is 
not about decorum--it's about people's lives, because what we are allowed to 
read, to talk about, and to know has a profound effect on what we do and 
what we demand from our government and from ourselves as citizens.

It's finally hitting home, hitting some of us, the middle-class people who 
never had to confront what our government's policies mean to people in 
developing countries, and to poor people here. We've had the luxury of 
denial. <They> have been the side effects of "economic development," 
containment of communism (a policy that continues, look at our policy on 
Cuba), and spreading "democracy" and "free markets" (free to us). Why would 
anyone want to censor a listserv archive? It must mean that free discussion, 
thought, criticism are very dangerous things, even here.

Eileen




From: "Catherine B. King" <cb.king at verizon.net>
Reply-To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
To: <aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org>
Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA]  "Mayberry Machiavelli's"
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 07:51:38 -0700



Hello Eileen and Colleagues:

Eileen says:  "Can anyone seriously argue that blocking
or deleting messages to a listserv is legal or necessary?"

The problem seems to be that arbitrariness is afoot in the
land, which means no one NEEDS to make an argument--
the people behind the curtain, as it were, "just do it"
because they want to and they can, and probably because
the big G told them to, if many of the press reports are
true.

At present, it seems that the qualification for such actions
is "covered" by such language as "appropriate" and
"scientific-based evidence."   But this is possibly the
language of half-truth--bad intentions entering the arena
through the language of good intentions.   (I wanted to use
a different six-letter word that starts with "c" and ends with
"t" and sounds like "rover" with a "t" at the end, but I was
afraid it wouldn't "pass.")    But soon, if what is inferred is
actually true, we will need no cover language.

As far as
education goes, we may infer that these folks failed to
understand in their own education the importance of our
founding documents and the tenuous relationship between
that, the rule of law, and the documents of deity and lone
internal dialogue of prayer.  In this sense their acts are in
principle NO different that the acts of the persons who ran
into those two buildings up in New York--they are following
their own personal interpretation of what the deity wants
and trumping the entire order of civilization that has
emerged through an enormous battle over the centuries--
and for which many died--because they are in a powerful
position to do so.  No argument is needed or wanted, and
has no purpose for such groundless power--argument is
anti-thematic for such a mind.

Who needs argument when I have the power?

And who needs Chicken-Little when the sky has already
fallen?

Catherine King



----- Original Message -----
From: Eileen Eckert <eileeneckert at hotmail.com>
To: <aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 5:29 AM
Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA]free and open discussion


 > I think we need to check that our responses are based on an accurate
 > reading--Debbie specifically said the censorship applies ONLY to NIFL
lists
 > subscribed to through the LINCS website, not to this policy-related list
 > sponsored by AAACE. The censorship that's happening is indefensible in 
any
 > case, not just because one can make the argument that general government
 > policy is related to adult literacy policy.
 >
 > If someone posting to a NIFL list can state how their message fits the
 > guidelines for the list (even if others don't agree), then it seems to me
 > the message is appropriate. If not, isn't that one of the roles of a
 > moderator, to navigate that unmarked territory, or to help subscribers
 > navigate it? It's NEVER appropriate, or even legal, for an outsider to
order
 > messages be blocked or deleted from the archives. It is especially
 > disturbing when, in a democracy, someone uses their direct or indirect
 > influence over someone else's continued employment to coerce them into
 > breaking the law. I'm assuming the censorship is carried out under orders
by
 > people afraid for their jobs; maybe that assumption is not correct.
 >
 > The Bill of Rights was written in a time when the United States was
fragile
 > and new, and many could argue persuasively that free speech would
jeopardize
 > its very existence--the framers of the Constitution still had the
foresight
 > to include it as an ideal and a fundamental part of law (even if they
never
 > lived up to all of the Constitution). Can anyone seriously argue that
 > blocking or deleting messages to a listserv is legal or necessary? We
don't
 > need to make the case for the appropriateness of the discussions to the
list
 > on which they appear--they're legal, no one has the right to even take 
the
 > argument into the realm of "appropriateness". I think we weaken our
argument
 > for the basic principle of free speech when we make our case based on
 > appropriateness of specific discussions or messages.
 >
 > Eileen
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > From: Janet Isserlis <Janet_Isserlis at Brown.edu>
 > Reply-To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
 > To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
 > Subject: [AAACE-NLA]free and open discussion
 > Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 17:24:28 -0400
 >
 > This is astonishing.
 >
 > HR 1261?
 >
 > I'm wondering if the silence comes from messages now not being posted, or
if
 > others are as stunned as I am?
 >
 > We can't discuss legislation on a list devoted to policy?  We're not able
to
 > communicate about issues that impact the lives of our learners and our
 > communities?
 >
 > Who is making these decisions?
 >
 > Janet Isserlis
 >
 > >The following has come to my attention.  Members of this list will be
 > >interested. This is from NIFL, and concerns only the lists subscribed to
 > >through the LINCS website.  I assume NIFL was required to do this.
 > >
 > >"Messages sent to the discussion lists containing the following terms 
and
 > >phrases are currently not being allowed to post to their destined lists.
 > >
 > >Urge Congress
 > >Your action can make the difference
 > >Chopping block
 > >Please make your views known
 > >Iraq
 > >War
 > >Action alert
 > >H.R. 1261"
 > >
 > >Debbie Yoho
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > >_______________________________________________
 > >AAACE-NLA mailing list: AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
 > >http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
 > >LiteracyTent: web hosting, news, community and goodies for literacy
 > >http://literacytent.org
 >
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 > http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
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 > http://literacytent.org
 >
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