[AAACE-NLA] Re: AAACE-NLA Digest, Vol 30, Issue 38
Leslee.Oppenheim@mail.cuny.edu
Leslee.Oppenheim at mail.cuny.edu
Thu Dec 1 10:01:00 EST 2005
The City University of New York operates an Adult Literacy/ESL/GED program
on 13 campuses of the University. The GED component, which has a commonly
held instructional philosophy, seeks to rehearse the demands of college
level study through rigorous coursework designed to broaden students'
background knowledge. The instruction goes well beyond test preparation,
although that is not ignored. Such an instructional approach helps to
ensure that students are prepared to pass the GED test as well as to make
a strengthened transition to college.
If you would like further information about the program, please feel free
to contact me directly off-list.
Leslee Oppenheim
Office of Academic Affairs
The City University of New York
535 East 80th Street
New York, NY 10021
Phone: (212) 794-5437
Fax: (212) 794-5706
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11/30/2005 06:35 PM
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Today's Topics:
1. RE: Are Fast Track GED programs a good idea?
[bcc][faked-from] (Debby Lawson)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:53:43 -0600
From: "Debby Lawson" <lawsond at mvcaa.net>
Subject: RE: [AAACE-NLA] Are Fast Track GED programs a good idea?
[bcc][faked-from]
To: "National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE"
<aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org>
Message-ID:
<3A57BC24E589CE46A607531C10953B086A8628 at mvcaa_srv_2.mvcaa.local>
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To all,
I have been very interested in this line of discussion and would like to
point out the fact that a considerable number of people who possess a
traditional high school diploma are not able to pass the GED test. For
this reason, I believe that a GED earner will have about the same chance
of success in further education as a high school graduate - some are
better able to succeed than others.
I agree that the student's reasons for earning a GED will have a lot of
influence on how much information they should study before taking the
GED. I also consider the learner's beginning level when they enter the
program and individualize the curriculum accordingly. If they have lots
of gaps in their knowledge base, it stands to reason that it will take
them longer to be prepared for the exam, but I refuse to hold a student
back simply to fulfill a required number of instruction hours when they
are able to pass the test with only a few hours of instruction and
review.
Of course, many of the students we work with are in desperate need of
obtaining employment or wish to advance in their present job to gain
wage increases. For many, the value of the GED is in accessing future
training. However, I believe that successful completion also boosts the
adult learner's confidence in his or her own abilities, which in turn,
garners their efforts to push for more success.
I have no doubt that not one of the police officers, social workers,
teachers, automotive technicians, nurses, etc. who have gone through our
program would say that earning the GED made them any more intelligent.
They would say that obtaining the GED was the first step in their
journey toward becoming the adults they are today.
We hold an annual graduation ceremony for our students who earn the GED.
I have to say there is no prouder family member in attendance at a
ceremony than the young child of a graduate. It is my hope that the
experience leaves a lasting impression with those children.
Debby Lawson, CCAP
MVCAA Adult and Family Literacy
Marshall, MO
-----Original Message-----
From: aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org
[mailto:aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org] On Behalf Of Brown,
Charlene
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 2:39 PM
To: National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE
Subject: RE: [AAACE-NLA] Are Fast Track GED programs a good idea?
[bcc][faked-from]
The research is clear that the maximum value of the GED is in using it
to access future training. However, some of the research shows that
having a GED is still better than having no credential at all.
While the GED recipient may not be ready to access training today, he
probably will be soon, considering the realities of the modern
workplace. In addition, many of those with no credential are barred
from applying for many good paying jobs that require the credential
irregardless of the skills level. In these cases, the GED is valuable.
Another side benefit of the GED is that it signals the recipients'
family members that completing high school is important. This sometimes
encourages their children to complete.
Therefore, while studies have proven the GED less valuable than a
traditional high school diploma, it is still much better than nothing at
all.
Charlene Brown,
ABE Coordinator
Jefferson County Public Schools
Adult and Continuing Education
Jacob Annex
3670 Wheeler Avenue
Louisville, KY 40215
502-485-3797
-----Original Message-----
From: aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org
[mailto:aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org] On Behalf Of David
Rosen
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 1:52 PM
To: National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE
Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] Are Fast Track GED programs a good idea?
[bcc][faked-from]
Hello Kenny, and others,
Both your examples seem to me to be cases where students should be
encouraged by their teacher to take the GED as soon as they are
ready. But the examples make clear that it is the teacher's
discretion in urging that, not the result of a state funder's
pressure for increased numbers of GED attainees. I would feel more
comfortable with state "Fast Track" programs if were confident that
they didn't explicitly or implicitly pressure students and teachers
to get the GED as soon as possible, even with low passing scores, and
if they provided post-GED transition-to-college programs for every
GED and adult high school diploma holder. Can someone assure me?
Given what we know about the earnings value of the GED (it is
insignificant unless a student continues on, enrolls in and completes
at least a year of post-secondary education) why would a state push
students to get their GED diploma or certificate? Why wouldn't the
research by John Tyler and others (see http://wiki.literacytent.org/
index.php/GED_Research ) influence state policy makers to provide
incentives for students to enter post-secondary preparation, if
needed, and enter post-secondary education programs, ready to succeed?
David J. Rosen
DJRosen at theworld.com
On Nov 27, 2005, at 7:26 PM, Kenneth Tamarkin wrote:
> David,
>
> When I taught GED classes, I often pushed students to take the test
> as soon
> as possible when I thought it made sense to do so. For example, if
> a student
> let me know that they had been in a GED prep program before and had
> quit
> because they had not been allowed to take the test or something
> came up in
> their private life before they could try to take the test, then I
> would push
> that student to take the test as soon as the pre-test showed they
> would
> pass. My thinking was that if the student failed again to even take
> a GED
> test, they might not try a third time. Another example were those
> students
> receiving unemployment benefits who might qualify for a training
> program if
> they could complete their GED quickly.
>
> Kenny Tamarkin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org
> [mailto:aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org] On Behalf Of
> David Rosen
> Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 10:34 AM
> To: National by AAACE Literacy Advocacy List sponsored
> Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Are Fast Track GED programs a good idea?
>
> AAACE-NLA Colleagues,
>
> Several states are trying to increase the number of people who pass
> the GED. There are "fast track" states like Virginia, and
> "incentive" states like Tennessee, and others. It would appear to be
> a good idea to provide more resources for GED classes, and to pay for
> part or all of the test fees for students who cannot afford them, as
> Tennessee is doing, but I wonder if, in some cases, a "GED push"
> results in lower (barely passing) test scores for some of those who
> are urged to take the test too soon, before they have had any
> substantial instruction or study. If so, a push might defeat the
> goal of preparing GED holders to succeed in college -- unless they
> also do a college transition program after getting the GED. As it
> is, only a tiny percent of GED holders enroll and complete a college
> degree program, and without post secondary education, the GED has
> little or no economic impact, so if by rushing them to take the test
> we undermine their preparation for postsecondary education I think we
> aren't doing students any favors.
>
> I wonder if anyone in states where the GED push is on has
> observations about how this affects performance on the GED or
> preparation for college. If so, please post here (or e-mail me
> privately).
>
> David J. Rosen
> Adult Literacy Advocate
> DJRosen at theworld.com
>
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