[AAACE-NLA] complex relationship between learningtoread&learningto learn
Merle Ayres
merleayres at hotmail.com
Tue Jan 4 19:43:12 EST 2005
Nancy, I read your comments about numbers, testing, modes of reading etc. As
a practictioner 12 yrs removed I can feel your frustration. The new teachers
may use different ways of teaching reading now. I remember some errors I
made when teaching and I still wonder what I was doing this for. Example was
to have a spelldown on Fridays before the test and It really invovled the
top kids in 6th grade. One day it came down to the top two spellers and one
had to lose. Then the long face all day with the loser. That bothered me
alot. Did I do any good by doing this. Then the good stories we read in the
early 80,s... When the new books came out all the 6th grade teachers were
mad because they were violent, competative, open ended and not really for
midwest mores.
Yes I grouped kids and they had good readers average readers and slow
readers { I have to be careful here} Basic skillls was king in school as it
gave bragging rites to principals of schools when they gathered for their
informal meetings. My college professors abhored Basic Skillls. as a
benchmark and I did see the light as Hierronymous the test maker was
actually running the schools as not the staff. I hated that . I wonder if
we are leaving something out here. Its the mantra of Iowa according to Tom
Vilsack our governor. Smalll schools do not have enough advanced classes .
Smalll schools don't do enough to perpare for college classes. So whats the
magic formula for alll this research and numbers and climbing to be the
best. Well its competition. competiton in reading class. testing, spelling
and alll the rest... Sports yes its also works in. Literacy is that
competative to , I beleive it is and until we change this is education we
are the mercy of the test makers , government, reseach and academics. I
made some terriibel mistakes on some kids in the name of a score so elusive
no one cares five years form now. Through all the muckyness they are doing
alright as some are lawyers, doctors, good managers etc.. Most make it
without the score they had as I marked them slow progress and the big white
folder that passed on to the next grade. competition in reading??
Merle Ayres
412 8th st. North
Humboldt,Iowa 50548
Tel.1-515-332-4630
Fax 515-332-1738
>From: Nancy Hansen <sfallsliteracy at yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: sfallsliteracy at yahoo.com,National Literacy Advocacy List
sponsored by AAACE<aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org>
>To: National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by
AAACE<aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org>
>Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] complex relationship between
learningtoread&learningto learn
>Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 12:43:22 -0800 (PST)
>
>Andrea, George, Catherine et all:
>
>So little time, so much to make comments about! I may not be here at
this computer much longer. "The Midwest Shuts Down" reads the
headline. The skies have opened up to release a bounty of falling snow -
looks like two inches on the parking lot already with a predicted 10"
to follow before tomorrow afternoon!
>
>"Clanging Cymbal" indeed portrays the way I feel, George,
about giving input to this topic. I guess I'll call it *my* new name, too -
I'm representative of just a small sound in the Big Band Blast as it marches
down the street to the beat of my louder brother Drummers and Tubas.
>
>Indeed. Many literacy providers are eating a watery broth, nowhere near
a feast. I do not feel as though I can be called a "prophet from the
midland", though. Instead I am "Only a Small Weak Voice"
speaking against The Robes (well put, George!) I feel strongly that there
is no truth because The Robes and Other do "impede the pathway" to
where we as a field can feel we are united.
>
>Andrea, indeed it *is* upsetting to hear it all over again that the
numbers should be the focus. The at-risk adults we serve are made to feel
that they are "Just a Number" in too many *other* entities that
provide them other services. Now we are expected to do it to them, *too*?
>
>You wrote in your 2nd email:
><<..."The TABE associates nicely with the GED, according to
one list subscriber who knows both well. And I know that not every literacy
student
>wants to get a GED. But there certainly is generalizability between
>literacy domains. Experiences, which are the usual measure of domains,
are
>not cut off at the border. Nouns in one domain exist in other domains.
..." >>
>
>You are absolutely right that "not every literacy student wants to
get a GED." because whole programs like mine are serving learners whose
reading skills are so low that they aren't able to even consider studying
for a GED! So is the "generalizability between literacy domains"
to totally ignore this as a *fact* when it *exists* as fact?
>
>Your expectation that *all* adults be measured with Tests, doesn't take
into any consideration whatsoever that the reading skill level of a literacy
student and the GED prep student are worlds apart! (Using your baking
metaphor) the men and women literacy students I serve would stand beside you
at the kitchen counter trembling because *all* they know successfully about
baking a luscious apple pie is how to turn *on* the mixer -- none of the
rest of it that you listed is in their base of knowledge. So they wouldn't
experienc even baking a pie that's tasty.
>
>They also have not experienced success when it comes to being Tested.
These adults will be traumatized by any *sort* of activity that uses an
instrument that starts with that capital "T". So how accurate will
the data be that we collect? And we are going to tell them it's so we can
"collect numbers" when I've already said that students at the
level we serve don't *care* about their number. Let's take a real example:
How about the 56 year-old gent in my P.S. who has no *intention* of getting
a GED? How would you suggest we "measure" his courage? Or perhaps
that isn't an important piece of data to those who make decisions when they
have already stated that success is an increased number.
>
>Nancy Hansen
>Sioux Falls Area Literacy Council
>sfallsliteracy at yahoo.com
>
>
>AWilder106 at aol.com wrote:
>George, aka "Clanging Cymbal,"
>
>I woke in the middle of the night thinking I might not have the strength
or the knowledge or the time to continue on this theme, which has been going
strong since last summer. There are a lot of smart people here. Sometimes I
can only point out the difficulty and hope that others will resolve the
problems.
>
>I am 5'7", when I am older I will probably be 5'6" or
5'5" or shorter. However, now I am 5'7". Numbers have meaning--and
let's not drag Einstein in here or go into the relativity of numbers.
>
>If I were a funder I would not fund anything unless the field could come
up with some way to measure what it is doing--the development of skilled
readers. If a program looked promising I would focus on pushing it to figure
out how to measure its results.
>
>I think there probably isn't an "if"--I would say that in some
cases higher scores on some sort of (valid, reliable) test, which indicate
degree of mastery, lead to life changing experiences--for some.
>
>The TABE associates nicely with the GED, according to one list
subscriber who knows both well. And I know that not every literacy student
wants to get a GED. But there certainly is generalizability between literacy
domains. Experiences, which are the usual measure of domains, are not cut
off at the border. Nouns in one domain exist in other domains.
>
>Use of quantity may cover a darker political side, but that is no reason
to stop trying to solve the problem. People who subscribe to the darker side
get so irritated when you come up with the solution, I have found. That can
be kind of fun, assuming they don't have knives or guns or have political
power over you--big assumptions in my experience, so one must be careful
where one finds fun.
>
>We could debate mastery until the cows come home, I'll leave that to you
and others.
>
>I often don't care about the values, I assume people will find them for
themselves, express them themselves. I assume there is a link between
happiness and having survived a tidal wave, and happiness at being fed when
one is hungry. When I'm an educator, my job is to create skilled readers as
fast as possible, as quickly as possible. If an analysis of "rich
narratives" will help me do that, fine. Nancy's method of essentially
asking students "What works" is a decent one.
>
>She is able to measure progress using ProLiteracy models and measures.
She needs the money for the LD testing, and she isn't the only one in this
fix, others spoke up on the LD list when I asked the question of
"where?"
>
>As to who lives and who dies, what gets funded and what doesn't, when
muddiness in outcomes prevails, then I bet it's programs which are embedded
in districts, programs that have lots of people supporting them, whether
they have measurable results or not. I accept that political reality, it's
out there.
>
>However there is a lot of strength in "this works, and I will show
you how it works and how we measure it working." Would I ever like to
hear that from more people. There are a handful on this list who have said
that, and whose experience with "what works" is generalizable.
>
>A bientot for now,
>
>Andrea
>
>
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