[AAACE-NLA] immigrants with a high school diploma

Tue Jul 13 12:52:04 EDT 2004

What Hal says seems to make sense, but I am speculating. Often, we find immigrants from English speaking countries that come to college in the US. Many of them are wealthy, went to good schools, excelled, and came to pursue higher ed in the US. I would speculate that these immigrants would have fairly good academic skills in English. 

I would also assume that the quality of High schools in other countries may vary, just like in the US. Therefore, some students with high school degrees from other English speaking countries may not have high academic skills. Many may have come to the US escaping poverty, etc. while they may possess a HS diploma, their academic skills may not be great. 

Historically, our experience with high school graduates from other countries came from those that were attending college. They usually excelled and gave the impression that schooling in a particular country was good. With more refugees and people escaping poverty coming to the US we are running into high school grads from other countries that did not get the best education. An exception may have been refugees from the eastern block. 

We see this along the US Mexico border, and even though the L1 is not English, the idea applies. Many of the high school graduates that we encounter are students attending college. They come from fairly wealthy families and have a good education. There are however, lost of poor quality schools in Mexico and a lot of High school grads and college students that are very limited in their academic skills. 

I had an interesting experience last semester. A friend of mine who teaches philosophy in Juarez University (Universidad Autonoma de Ciudad Juarez) was traveling to Mexico City once a month and asked me to substitute for him. Having experience with high school grads who immigrate into the US with very good academic skills I expected to run into students with very high academic skills. To my surprise, the majority of these students had limited academic skills, very similar to what I would find in a freshman CC or University class in the US. They had difficulty reading and understanding basic philosophy and sociology concepts and they had a terrible time reading primary sources. My friend is from Austria and his background is in the Frankfurt School, and Critical Theory. He was trying to get his students to read this stuff (adorno, horkheimer, etc). Having a lot of experience with adult basic education I had to do some coaching to help him understand where his students were coming from. He had the typical "unexposed" college professor's view that the students were lazy, etc.  

Andres

In a message dated 7/12/2004 1:53:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Hal Beder <hbeder at rci.rutgers.edu> writes:

>
>
>  I am talking about adults who received their primary, secondary, and in 
>some cases some higher education, in schools where everything was taught in 
>English.  It would seem that the quality of education varies a great deal 
>in developing countries where the official language is English.  Has anyone 
>else noticed this or have I just run into some idiosyncrasies?
>
>
>
>
>At 10:06 AM 7/12/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>>Hal,
>>Could you, please, clarify what you mean by relatively advanced, and
>>very low literacy levels?
>>
>>Lisa Bernstein
>>Executive Director
>>The What To Expect Foundation
>>212-712-9764
>>lisab at whattoexpect.org
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org
>>[mailto:aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org] On Behalf Of Hal Beder
>>Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 8:50 AM
>>To: National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE
>>Subject: RE: [AAACE-NLA] immigrants with a high school diploma
>>
>>
>>Based on our research in New Jersey, it is not uncommon to find
>>immigrants
>>who had relatively advanced educations in English-speaking African
>>countries and India who have very low literacy levels.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>At 12:11 PM 7/7/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>> >Heide, et al,
>> >
>> >Not only are immigrants and refugees who possess a high school diploma
>> >(but who lack the level of English communication skills needed to
>> >function effectively in society, at work, etc.) eligible for services
>> >under WIA Title II (the federal Adult Education and Family Literacy
>> >Act), but so are native born English speaking citizens who possess a
>> >high school diploma but who lack the level of basic academic skills
>> >(reading, writing, math) expected of a high school graduate.
>> >
>> >take care,
>> >bob bickerton, MA director of adult ed
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: Heide Wrigley [mailto:hwrigley at aiweb.com]
>> >Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 9:56 AM
>> >To: National Literacy Advocacy List sponsored by AAACE
>> >Subject: [AAACE-NLA] immigrants with a high school diploma
>> >
>> >
>> >Hi, John -
>> >
>> >Thanks for alerting us to the fact that the RTI report says that
>> >immigrants and refugees who have a high school diploma and don't speak
>> >English well are not part of the adult education target population.
>> >
>> >This may, once again, be the result of a failure of analysts to
>> >distinguish between people who received a high school diploma in the
>> >U.S. (who may not be in the target group) and immigrants and refugees
>> >who report having a high school diploma from ANOTHER country and don't
>> >speak English well and who are definitely part of the target
>> >population.
>> >
>> >
>> >I do hope the report will be revised (or notes added) to address this
>> >issue
>> >
>> >Cheers
>> >
>> >Heide Wrigley
>> >
>> >
>> >Heide Spruck Wrigley
>> >LiteracyWork Associates
>> >San Mateo, CA and Vancouver, B.C.
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org
>> >[mailto:aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org] On Behalf Of John
>> >Comings
>> >Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 10:45 AM
>> >To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
>> >Subject: [AAACE-NLA] NLA: DAEL/OVAE document
>> >
>> >I just received an April 2004 document, "Profiles of the Adult
>> >Education
>> >
>> >Target Population, Information from the 2000 Census" prepared by RTI
>> >International for DAEL/OVAE.  It defines the adult education target
>> >population as "individuals ages 16 years and over, who have not
>> >attained a high school diploma or equivalent and are not currently
>> >enrolled in school." This comes out to be 51 million adults or 23% of
>> >the total 16+ age
>> >group. However, this definition does not include the 9.5 million
>> >immigrants
>> >who have a high school diploma but do not speak English well. This
>>group
>> >is
>> >identified in the report as "not technically members of the target
>> >population, but they have a need for and demand services of adult
>> >education
>> >programs..." but not put into the total.  No mention is made of adults
>> >who
>> >speak English and have a high school diploma but whose reading and math
>> >skills fall below NALS Level 3, some of whom also participate in our
>> >services.  This group, of course, would not show up in the Census.
>> >
>> >The document provides a lot of useful information about the 51 million
>> >who do not have a high school diploma, but it doesn't seem to cover the
>> >adult
>> >education target population. I think the correct title should be:
>> >profiles
>> >of AN adult education target population.
>> >
>> >The definition of our potential student population has been an issue of
>>
>> >discussion among NCSALL researchers. We feel anyone who needs our
>> >services and shows up at the door should be served, but we also
>> >acknowledge that few
>> >adults over the age of 60 (or even 50) choose to participate.  Though
>>we
>> >do
>> >have students who are 16 to 18, those students should be served by the
>> >K-12
>> >school system that has much more money and other resources than we do.
>> >Most
>> >adults who speak English well (either because they are immigrants who
>> >have
>> >developed strong English skills or because they were born in this
>> >country
>> >and learned English as a child) and have a high school diploma but have
>> >low
>> >literacy and math skills do not show up at our programs.  Adding a new
>> >type
>> >of service to our programs might allow us to serve more in this
>> >population,
>> >but we should probably first make sure we are serving all of those in
>> >our
>> >core population well.
>> >
>> >I think that core population of people we serve (90% of those who come
>> >to our programs) are adults 18-50 years of age who need to learn
>> >English and/or acquire a high school credential.  Does this sound right
>>
>> >to others?
>> >
>> >John Comings
>> >National Center for the Study of Adult Learning and Literacy Harvard
>> >Graduate School of Education 7 Appian Way
>> >Cambridge MA 02138
>> >(617) 496-0516
>> >john_comings at harvard.edu
>> >http://ncsall.gse.harvard.edu
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >AAACE-NLA mailing list: AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
>> >http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
>> >LiteracyTent: web hosting, news, community and goodies for literacy
>> >http://literacytent.org
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >AAACE-NLA mailing list: AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
>> >http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
>> >LiteracyTent: web hosting, news, community and goodies for literacy
>> >http://literacytent.org
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >AAACE-NLA mailing list: AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
>> >http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
>> >LiteracyTent: web hosting, news, community and goodies for literacy
>> >http://literacytent.org
>>
>>Rutgers University
>>Graduate School of Education
>>10 seminary Pl.
>>New Brunswick, NJ 08901
>>732-932-7496 ext. 8213
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>AAACE-NLA mailing list: AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
>>http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
>>LiteracyTent: web hosting, news, community and goodies for literacy
>>http://literacytent.org
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>AAACE-NLA mailing list: AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
>>http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
>>LiteracyTent: web hosting, news, community and goodies for literacy
>>http://literacytent.org
>
>Rutgers University
>Graduate School of Education
>10 seminary Pl.
>New Brunswick, NJ 08901
>732-932-7496 ext. 8213 
>
>_______________________________________________
>AAACE-NLA mailing list: AAACE-NLA at lists.literacytent.org
>http://lists.literacytent.org/mailman/listinfo/aaace-nla
>LiteracyTent: web hosting, news, community and goodies for literacy
>http://literacytent.org
>

-- 
Please take a look at my artwork: www.geocities.com/andresmuro/art.html